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Check back here often for the latest news on our new product releases, awards, recognitions, and other exciting achievements.

Automation Unplugged Show #259 An industry Q&A with Joaquin Rivera

Don’t miss the conversation with Joaquin Rivera, Founder of ByDesign Vision and Sound Marketing. Livestreamed Automation Unplugged on Wednesday, February 7th, 2024, at 12:30 pm EST.

This week's episode of Automation Unplugged features our host Ron Callis interviewing Joaquin Rivera, Founder of ByDesign Vision and Sound Marketing

About Joaquin Rivera

Joaquin's immersion in the industry traces back to his upbringing, with a remarkable fifteen-year journey as an integral part of the team at Stewart Filmscreen, a leading force in video projection screens. Commencing his career in production at Stewart Filmscreen, Joaquin swiftly transitioned to various pivotal roles, including Marketing, Inside Sales, International Sales, Factory Liaison, National Sales Manager, and ultimately becoming the first VP in Stewart's history not bearing the Stewart surname.

When faced with the loss of Stewart's longtime representative in California, Arizona, Vegas, and Hawaii, Joaquin, along with his co-worker and friend Benito, decided it was time for a change. In 2014, they took the bold step to establish ByDesign Vision & Sound Marketing Inc. Joaquin's unwavering dedication has earned recognition within the industry, manifested through several awards bestowed upon him over the years

Interview Recap

  • Industry Outlook for 2023
  • Training Room Importance and Industry Challenges
  • Marketing Strategies for Business Growth
  • Falling in love with the industry due to people and experiences.

SEE ALSO: Show #258 features John Heyman

Transcript

Ron:

Hello, hello, Ron Callis here with another episode of Automation Unplugged. Today is Wednesday, February 7th. It is a couple of minutes after 12:30 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. And I appreciate everyone that is tuning in with me live or on Replay. I actually have not given you all this direction in a bit, so I'm gonna change my tune here. If you do jump in and watch, drop into the comments. So whether you're on LinkedIn or Facebook or on YouTube, drop into the comments and tell us where you're coming to us from. Where are you watching the show? That's always fun to watch. And if you do have any questions or comments for my guest, don't be shy. Drop them into the comments. And if it's live, drop it into the comments and I'll do my best to take a look at it. And if it's on replay, my team here at one Firefly and my guest will be following those comments and give you those replies in post. Now, as always, Automation Unplugged is brought to you by my day job at One Firefly. And at One Firefly, we have really big news. Hey, Chris, thanks for tuning in there on LinkedIn. What am I gonna say here? Oh, we have big news at one Firefly. Today, we are launching some brand new educational material. So I normally don't do pitches, but I'm gonna take 30 seconds here and just share this with you all. And that is on the One Firefly website. If you go to onefirefly.com and you go under expertise, you'll find our page for the Five Minute Marketing Series. Now, we've released this series originally years ago and all the content's still relevant, but right over here on the left is our brand new in our new SEO educational series. This literally just went live in the last hour here on February 7th. So this is the first of 10 videos that we are producing, generally around five minutes, nailed this one. It's about four minutes and 30 seconds or so. And what we're gonna be doing is helping you all understand the digital landscape and kind of what's changing due to artificial intelligence, what's changing with online search and all of that. There's a lot for us as business owners to factor in. The internet is changing fast and we wanna keep you all up to speed. So definitely jump over to our website. Check out that content. Let us know what you think. Again, all of that content is free. There's no strings attached. And over the next couple of months, we're gonna be releasing, I'm gonna say approximately every week. We're still producing the content, but approximately every week, we're gonna be putting out new videos. You will also see it all over the socials and on YouTube. And we want to shout from the mountaintops, kind of all the things that you all need to be looking at to make sure your business is continuing to be found online. So definitely do so.

Ron:

All right, let's get to today's guest. This is actually a returning guest. This is Joaquin Rivera of Buy Design Vision and Sound Marketing. Now, Joaquin was on a show just actually last month in preparation for the Leida Palooza event. He was one of multiple guests we had on that show. And so I've known for many years that I wanted to get Joaquin on here. And look at this, we've had him on twice in 30 days. How amazing is that? But this time we actually get to focus squarely on him and his background and kind of what's going on in his life and in his business. And if you've been in the custom integration industry on planet Earth, you know Joaquin. He is a celebrity for many reasons, but certainly for his many years at Stewart Film Screen and now running his own rep agency there in Southern California. A lot of wisdom to share. I'm excited to kind of dig into his beliefs around working with people, working with businesses, running a successful business, leading others, and lots more. So without further ado, I'm gonna jump in and let's bring in Joaquin. Mr. Joaquin, how are you, sir?

Joaquin:

Ron, how you doing?

Ron:

I'm good, man. We did it. Look at that. We were trying to make this happen for a long time and twice in 30 days.

Joaquin:

Yes. And you asked, how am I doing? As usual, you know, living your dream, buddy.

Ron:

Well, you guys have been getting hellacious rain. And I think it's like Storm of the Century or something like this. So for those in our audience that aren't tuned into what's going on in California, it seems to always be something. There's an earthquake or there's a fire or now there's, you know, rainstorms for the century. Tell us what's going on.

Joaquin:

You know, it's always fun, right? That it's a high pay for, we have to pay a lot for the nice weather that we get 11 months of the year, actually almost 12. So yes, you know, we had floods. As a matter of fact, my back's still aching. My legs are still aching 'cause I had some floods at the house. So I had to, with buckets, you know, reroute the water. But it was a lot of water. And we're definitely in a way thankful for it, right? Because we really don't get rain. They say it never rains in Southern California. Well, last few days, it has rained quite a bit. But yeah, you know, then we'll get landslides later because, you know, rain and then fires in the summer. So, you know, it's quite a bit of.

Ron:

Oh, that's right, because the rains are gonna cause the plants to grow and the plants are gonna grow and then they're gonna dry out and then they're gonna be. That's where the fire risk in California comes from, right?

Joaquin:

Yes, yes. And of course, landslides because the water, you know, it saturates the land and then easier to get landslides. But overall, though, you know, we love it. We love, we love LA area.

Ron:

The plants are happy right now. What can we say? Yes. So tell, for folks who are not familiar with By Design, Vision and Sound Marketing, tell us about the business. Kind of where are you guys located? What are you doing? And then your role within the business.

Joaquin:

So we are a independent representative for some high end brands in the custom integration market. We represent the Southern California area, Arizona, Vegas, and Hawaii. So some of the greatest parts of the country when it comes to our industries, probably one of the largest in revenue parts of the country.

Ron:

Got it. Total random question for you here. What's your outlook for 2024? How's, how's your business outlook? Are you going to be, I say you. I'll just, I won't make it about you. I'll make it about the industry. Is the industry going to be up, flat or down compared to 2023?

Joaquin:

Well, I do believe that we're going to be up a little bit, not much, but up a little bit. Last year was down quite a bit. I would say double digit numbers. So I do believe that single digits, but we're going to be up for us, for ourselves. I think we're going to be up quite a bit because of some of the investments we made, but also though, because last year, we didn't focus really on sales. We focus on a building. So for us, it's going to be, it's been crazy January and so far the start of February has been pretty wild, busy. So we're looking forward to a really good 2024. I saw you guys, I didn't actually grab the image. So anyone that would want to see this, maybe when I say this, you can direct them to the exact location. But I know when I was on LinkedIn, just maybe in the last week or two, one of my good clients, Audio Visions, was actually holding a, I think, their annual sales meeting, but they were having it at your facility, and it looked stunning.

Joaquin:

Thank you.

Ron:

So can you just tell us super high level what you've been putting a lot of energy into this into this show space?

Joaquin:

Yes. Well, it was great to have Audio Visions in here. I think that for us, we love to hear when the dealer is planning, you know, so it was for them, it was a sales summit. Of course, sales rep, sales team, it's, you know, it's, it's beautiful to see that. But I do love the fact that dealers are planning anything, whether it's sales, whether it is, you know, just how they're going to manage their business for that year. I think that that's a needed factor that unfortunately not many business partners do. And it is critical. You need to have a plan. So it was great to have them here. And I do believe that they like the building. They got to experience some really cool stuff within the building. And of course, it's a building that we are creating a space for our partners to benefit from. You don't have to pay like you pay in a hotel room. So it's just an open space to a certain degree. You sent me some pictures in advance and I dropped them into a slide deck, would it be cool, Joaquin, if I shared this and maybe you just guide our audience. Now, keeping in mind, some people are going to be watching video and we'll see what we have on the screen. And there are folks that are listening on audio only. Actually, like Mark at Audio Visions, he listens to the show when he's riding his bike. So Mark, this is for you. I'm going to ask Joaquin to describe what is in the pictures. But of course, Mark was actually there just a few weeks ago. Let's see if technology behaves here. And if I click Share, there we go. I'm actually going to go back here. There we go. First of all, there's your team. Maybe guide us through kind of how do you structure your team? It's you? Are you out there selling or are this your sales team or how does it work?

Joaquin:

So from the left, that is Jessica, and she's the mother of the team. She's cold, she yells, you know she's the one that keeps us straight. So I don't know. She does a lot of marketing, but in a small company, everybody has to do everything, right? Oh yeah. Next door is Ryan. Ryan is extreme.

Ron:

Oh, wait a second, Joaquin. She just responded. She says, "I am so nice.".

Joaquin:

She is nice, but she keeps it straight.

Ron:

Keeps people in line.

Joaquin:

Very much so. Next to her is Ryan. Ryan Porter is an extreme geek, loves technology. He's talented. He's a salesperson. And again, every single person in my team has a quality and we love people quality. Felicia is with this building, we want to train our dealers. Of course, that's one of the goals. But reality is that we want to be in front of all the architects, designers, and builders. The goal for the building is that if we can help dealers with training, if we could help them with anything else with the building, you know that's icing on the cake. But the real goal is to get architects, designers, and builders in the space to make sure that they understand the why, the how. And look, at this point, I think builders understand that if they want to sell more homes instead of people buying existing homes, it's technology that is going to be the biggest key. So once they come through here, they'll understand anywhere from cable to wellness to lighting and audio, video distribution. So they get to see it all. So her job is to get them here, to get them inside, to get architects, builders and designers in here.

Ron:

She's calling on the design community.

Joaquin:

That is correct. Architects, designers and builders.

Ron:

Who's the guy in the middle?

Joaquin:

That is a good looking dude.

Ron:

He's sporting a killer beard. I'm jealous.

Joaquin:

So that would be me, of course, and I do manage the business and also do sales. My region, Ryan has the inland. My region is LA, more coastal, LA to Santa Barbara. And next to me is a partner, Benito. And Benito does Orange County to San Diego. And Tommy has the toughest. He has to travel quite a bit. Tommy right now is in Hawaii, and he manages Hawaii, Arizona, and Vegas. And of course, next to him is Nathan. And Nathan is my son, my oldest son. He's about to be 27 years old. And he does trainings. He does inside sales. He does support technical support. He is in charge of once a month visiting and training distributors.

Ron:

Got it. I love it. Now, I just clicked the slide and I see this beautiful space with a screen. Tell us, what are we looking at here?

Joaquin:

So it's a 46, a little over 4600 square feet space. And that is a barcode LED video wall. It's about six, it's not about, it's 16 feet wide. And within that, we built it in and it's still on the works, right? So some of those lighting fixtures are still exposed. We're gonna do a treated ceiling there. We've done it on the first two squares that you see next to the to the LED video wall. Ah, yeah, I see right next to the wall. I see it looks like a stretched ceiling, so I don't see any fixtures. I just see the light coming through. That is correct. And so the whole building is going to be like that, but we're not done yet. But we are already using the space. So that media space has a cinematic seating there. And it came out stunning. I don't think that it rivals any design center, I would say. It really is. It looks amazing and it performs amazing. That stretch fabric looks like teak wood, but it has technology speakers behind it. And so the performance is amazing on that space.

Ron:

Wow. Wow. No, that looks stunning. All right, I'm clicking now and now I see a rack of equipment. I see a mad VR piece in the rack.

Joaquin:

Yes, we have mad VR. We have, of course, everything throughout the building is managed by AV Pro Edge. So we have one gig, 10 gig. So we could do image, I mean, the tiling on the LED video walls. We have Trinov in there. We have, we don't represent Kaleidoscape, but we, you know, every showroom has to have Kaleidoscape. So that's and then of course the pro audio speakers amplifiers are in that rack as well. Some 801 D4 Bowers and Vulcans Signature Edition. Those are about 50,000, not about $50,000 a pair. We have Class A that is driving that in a trend-off AMP as well. Farming. That's okay. That is a three by three LCD video wall. And the reason we wanted that LCD video wall is because when you are, even our industry dealers, some do not really understand what LED video wall is versus LCD video wall. So we have it for two reasons. We want to train people differences between LED and LCD. And of course, some reason the customer doesn't have the budget for the LED video wall. LCD video wall is a lot less expensive and you still could get that big image or that big impact. Again, driven it with we're driving it. It's nine displays that we drive with AB Pro Edge, so we could do windowing. We could do anything we want with that. Pretty cool. 12 foot wide.

Ron:

That's gorgeous. And then I'll flip to this view. I'm seeing it looks like a seating area and I see what looks like virtual windows. Tell us about that.

Joaquin:

So in this space, we did not have windows in this area and we needed to display the shades that we were representing at the time. So we decided and at this point, just so you know, we do now represent Leon speakers, but at this point we did not. And we honestly did not know that they had a product called Liquid that does exactly this. So we went and bought 475 inch diagonal displays and four and we placed them vertically. And then we bought 443 inch diagonal displays and we created our own windows. Sometimes we're in Hawaii, sometimes we're in Fiji, sometimes you know places wherever we want to be. We don't sell any of that. We did that. We did that because of the shades. And you know, a rep business, we don't represent the sheets anymore.

Ron:

Have you picked up a new shade line to replace who was there previous?

Joaquin:

No, no. J.

Ron:

Ust an open invitation to any manufacturer out there listening, looking for LA representation that you, you might have a good place to demo their product?

Ron:

So it takes us forever, right, to do that. And Shades, believe it or not, it is a challenging business. So it has to be the right fit, I guess. You know So it'll take us forever. But I tell you what though, I think even though we don't sell any of that, most of the end users that come to do demos, they love it. It's a high percentage that said, you know, we have to do that in our garage. We have to do this. And so we're not making any money out for that, but but I think our dealer gets creative and now hopefully they're making some on this.

Ron:

No, that makes a lot of sense. I'm curious, what's the processor, the video processor that you're managing the tiling on all those windows?

Joaquin:

So all this is done by AV Pro Edge. I'm thinking because we have 10 gig and we have a one gig. So I am thinking that this one's being done with the one gig.

Ron:

OK.

Joaquin:

As I was saying that my, you know, our guy, Ryan is our geek. He's the one that worked on all the background. As a matter of fact, I believe that was either Jessica's or Ryan's idea to do that. He really wasn't mine. But I'll claim it.

Joaquin:

Yeah, hey, you give credit, but at the end of the day, buck stops with you. And now I'm seeing like a training room. Looks like you have a display in the middle of the room and a bunch of tables and chairs.

Joaquin:

Yes, yes. And the ceiling is exposed because, well, training is a big deal for us. Just recently with COVID, as you, I don't know, I'm sure that you heard, you're in every conference, you're in every event. So I know you've heard that. It was rather challenging for everybody. It was really busy. But there's no pool of people you can pull from. You know, our industry, that is a huge challenge. Training through COVID was very challenging because everybody wanted to do something like this. And the training, some trainings work, but most, when you gotta do hands-on, it just doesn't. So we are, as an industry, way behind on training, way behind. And as a rep and as an integrator, well, the whole channel suffers because there's gonna be a lot more mistakes being made in the field. And we don't want our industry, which is, it's already happening, that they're getting morphing or they're getting used to not training. You know, so that changes everything. So we're pushing for training. We are gonna have a, you know, video distribution training today in February, one day again to talk about 10 gig, you know, one gig. We're planning on having ISF certifications here. We're planning on having every training possible for our manufacturers. We have scheduled about 60 events for this year. And going from one event a year to 60 is quite a bit.

Ron:

You spent a lot of money. Your personal money, I imagine, business money. Maybe you had vendor support or not. But you've decided to double down on investing in your business by design in order to build out this incredible space for, it sounds like, for your dealers to use and to showcase products that you guys represent. Why did you do that? 'Cause there's a lot of reps around the country that maybe have made a decision to not do that.

Joaquin:

Well, excuse me. I think it would be the best to understand me. You've been the, I was saying earlier, you've been the only one that has been able to make our channel invest in business. 80-something people now in like five months. No, it's been a while, I know. But the point is, though, that unfortunately, in Southern California, even though it's one of the largest markets for what we do, there is no showrooms. And when you're selling high-end, that LED video wall, it's $420,000. So when you're spending $420,000, a lot of the customers want to see the product, what they want to touch and feel, and perhaps they don't. But if you bring them because they're like, no, I don't want to spend $420,000. But if you bring them, they have the money. If you bring them sitting down in front of the wall, believe me, it's a done deal. If they have the money, they'll buy it. So this is for multiple reasons. I believe, as I said earlier, that training is a must. That will be a significant help for us, the reps, for the manufacturers, and also for the dealers. You know, the less issues the dealer has out on the field, the more referrals they will get. You know, the more sales that you will do, the dealer will do with that manufacturer, if they understand the product, they feel comfortable with it. So someone's gotta bite the bullet to a certain degree. It certainly does not fit a reps business plan.

Ron:

It's a lot of money. I mean, this is a capital. This is a building. This is, I mean, many might lease. Do you want to share? Do you lease or do you own the building?

Joaquin:

No, we own the building. And I do believe some other partners throughout the country, Momentum Group, CET. I know Seth in Florida is doing the same thing, Peter Dirac. Yeah, so there are some that are doing it. And yes, it is. However, though, it's been challenging because, as I said earlier, it's kind of difficult to get people to invest. As a matter of fact, I should have called you and asked you how you do it. Because it has, but Barkle, as an example, AV Pro Edge, we didn't have to say it twice. I mean, they really stepped up immediately. So all our manufacturers have been great. So it hasn't been that huge of an investment. But certainly, with that said, though, last year was probably the toughest year ever, managing the building, trying to convince manufacturer to be part of to a certain degree of vision. But it's working out so far. As I said earlier though, but it's something that I'm sure that you could give us some really good highlights or some really good ideas as to how you get people to invest. I would actually like to hear from you.

Ron:

I had a conversation. I'm talking to dealers. You and I are talking to dealers every day of the week. You know, in my case, I've talked to them every day of the week for 24 years now. And, you know, I'm assuming you're probably that or more. And so when I hear conversations or when I'm in a dialogue with any business owner, small, medium, or large, really doesn't matter. And they talk about where they want to be this year and maybe where they want to be next year. I go deeper and I ask them specifics, "Well, what exactly do you want to achieve this year?" And I'll keep it just high level and say maybe it's a revenue target. And then you have to look at that through perspective of, well, what did you do last year? And you want that for this year, or maybe you're looking at the year ahead. And then the next question is, well, how are you going to do that? Because it just doesn't happen. So what are you actively doing through sales and marketing activities to affect that? Some things are going to, you know, a common answer is, well, we just, we grow. Well, I'm here to tell you, you don't just grow because some people stay the same and some people shrink. And so if you're going to do more tomorrow than you did today or yesterday, it is, I believe, the business owner's responsibility to think critically about what are the things that are going to be done differently to enable that growth. And so that often is the investment of time, money, and energy. And sales and marketing go hand in hand to help you achieve that. So you might say that it's often the conversation defers to sales activities. Maybe I'm going to hire a new salesperson, or maybe I'm going to start doing biz dev and calling on the design community. That is investment from your business to do that. Putting on someone, paying a salary. Biz Dev often is not as transactional, much longer sales cycles and relationship models of, I might need to go call in that architect 10 times before they start feeling comfortable to give me projects. Well, that's pure investment. Sounds like you're doing that, Joaquin. You have someone on your team calling on the design community and helping with specifications. But then the same thing goes for marketing. It's just you have to invest in a marketing strategy, strategic thinking about what are the places, what are the customers I want to appeal to or influencers I want to appeal to. Where are they at in person or in real life and/or on the internet? And then how do I put the right message in front of them and do that consistently enough to have a probability of that moving the needle?

Joaquin:

Yeah. So you've been doing this for quite a while and you actually deal mainly with dealers. And I do believe that dealers understand that. We're trying to make a bit of a change for some of the manufacturers. As you said, you can't just say, I'm going to grow this, I want to grow this year 20%. As you said, you need to have a plan. Okay, so how are you going to achieve that? We're grateful with our manufacturers who said, look, Barco helped us or we have a 16-foot wide LEG video wall. We have a $225,000 DCI projector. We have $110,000 DCI projector, $110,000 regular projector, excuse me, a $34,000 projector, a $29,000. That's all from, and then Epson sent, we just became epsilon reps as well. And they sent the 12,000, the extreme short throw lens. We have three projectors from Epson as well. I think that there is, the goal is, of course, if anybody's building a house, they come through here and they get the idea of what the right size of image they need, what technology they need, what kind of lighting where part of the second part of the building is going to be, it's not completely done yet, but it's going to be a human-centric lighting demo. We wanna make sure that they understand why investing in lighting is important. So we're gonna, I mean, if you build in a home, you can get entirely when it comes to technology, you can get everything. It doesn't have to be the brand, right? But you understand that's the why. Why do you need this? How is this gonna affect your life? And they could do everything in this building.

Ron:

32:25 Out of curiosity, Joaquin, is your vision that a homeowner might contact you guys or be appointed to you by a dealer and your staff is taking them through? Or is it that a dealer is always accompanying that consumer or that prospect or that design industry member, and you're making your facilities available to them? Or is it a little bit of both?

Joaquin:

As of now, it's going to be mainly driven by the dealer. The dealer is bringing in end users already. We average probably a couple of demos a week at this point, but that's why we hire Felica, because we believe that when you're working with a dealer, they're going to bring one project at a time. We want to get to the builder, architect, designer. And that's when there's going to be a shift. That at that point, the builder's just going to be specifying what they need into the home. The architect's going to be doing the same thing. And of course, the designer will understand why. And so at that point, we will be able to give leads to the dealer. I think that that is the key at the end of the day, right? The builder, architects, and designers. I mean, that's exactly what we want. Why, let's say, you know DMF lighting versus a Home Depot special. And I think lighting is, you know, look at, we don't represent Lutron or Ketra, but they've done an amazing job at marketing. And they're trying to get people, I'm not trying to, but they're, yeah, trying to get people to understand the importance of lighting. So, you know, when we have DMF tunable white here and color beam as well, and once they see like anything else, right? You know, if I tell you a story over the weekend I went hiking, you can think, okay, were you hiking at Chuck E. Cheese or were you hiking the Himalayas, right? Which is two completely different experiences. So once you see a product or when you see how it affects your lifestyle, it's easier for you to say yes or no. And typically it's going to be yes. You have experienced it. So that's the goal for the space. As I said, as of now, dealers are bringing their customers. And so that's helpful.

Ron:

Makes sense. Well, I think it's impressive that you're investing. I think any manufacturer listening, I think you owe it to yourself and the industry and your company that you represent to support and lean into any of these reps or dealers that are trying to put your products on display. And it sounds like you've had some good support, Joaquin, from some of those manufacturers. But we live in an experienced economy, and certainly some of these products need to be experienced. And a vendor would be silly to not want to have a person that wants to build a space and demo their stuff to not you know beat their doors down to give them product to display and have the rep ultimately decide who they're going to represent. It seems obvious to me, but maybe not always obvious to everybody. Joaquin, I do want to jump real high level in these interviews. I always love to go into your background. And I know you were at Stewart for, I want to say 16 years. Is that accurate?

Joaquin:

15. 15 years.

Ron:

So you had a story career at Stewart. But go back as far as you're willing to. Where did you come from? And then what are, you know, bring us to the present. Help us understand what that career trajectory for you's looked like. You go back to childhood. College, you know, first job, whatever you're comfortable with.

Joaquin:

Loaded question, but yes, if you hear the accent, I'm originally from El Salvador. I came to the States, not necessarily by choice, but a war going on back home. I got drafted at the age of 12 into the Army. My father was able to get me out of there and brought me here within a couple of days. So at that point, it was, you know, it was a civil war going on. Came to the U.S. and unfortunately, my father had to go back home. And so I've been really on my own since I was 12 years old. So, you know, it was a good hustle. Life has been great to me. Somehow I had a passion for music in film. And I try that. Now, in one of those studios that I used to go to, I met Scott Stewart. Scott Stewart used to be one of the owners at Stewart Film Screen. He was VP of production at Stewart. Amazing musician. Scott and Don Stewart there. They love music. Scott though used to make that guitar talk. So anyways, he always, he gave me about five factory tours at Steward. And he always asked me, "You gotta come to work for us." I was working actually at that point, going through a college and working at a Italian deli, Italian restaurant. And he would always come and like, "You gotta come and work for us." So he gave me about five factory tours and I told him I wasn't going to college to go to production. Anyhow, finally, I was doing a soundtrack for a movie and I had, it was a real, real movie. And I got dumped right before the movie was going to be released. And I was a bit depressed. And Scott's like, what are you doing at home feeling sorry for yourself? Come and help me work. I need somebody. So you know just to pass the time, I went there and I kind of got stuck there. One of those days I was about 30 feet up in the air, helping him painting, painting a screen, a retractable screen. And there comes this old man saying, "Hey, Joaquin, great job." And you know I didn't know who he was. And then I found out that he was the CEO, Patrick Stewart. And I just felt at home. So I started in production. Within three months, I was in marketing and with three months later, I was into international sales. And then three months later, I was into sales, and then factor liaison, and then sales manager. And then, you know, as a factory and I started having a great time, at that point, we created, again, a click. The CEDiA Regionals used to be a whole bunch of people that used to go throughout the country, five locations throughout the country, doing training. And it was just a lot of fun. I fell in love with the industry. Mainly, you know, the industry, but you know, the people. And then, of course, I became the VP of Sales for Stewart, and that became CDA alone was a tough, you know, it's just, it's a lot to do. And then I became a VP of sales for worldwide all the vertical markets, and that's a lot. Stewart is involved in many different channels. Verticals, you know, commercial, industrial, simulation, government. Anyhow, so it was quite a bit. I loved every single minute of it because I have friends throughout the world. I created some really strong relationships. But I did have a son at home that I missed a lot of his upbringing. And so, you know, I wanted to be and stay in the industry, but I knew that I could no longer travel. So at that point, our local representative in Southern California was purchased by a manufacturer. And so he kind of left the door open. And I decided to, at that point, to become a representative or an independent rap. But Stewart was a fun 15 years. I'm probably one of the biggest geeks. Well, I don't know, Joel Silver's digger. But when it comes to projection, I love it. When it comes to screens, I think I know a little bit too much. So, but it was a blast. It's a great family, you know, family-owned business with a rich history since the '40s. So I enjoyed it.

Ron:

What was your process like when you were deciding or evaluating to open a rep agency? Sounds like a door was open, somebody was leaving, you observed that there might be an opportunity. What was your, what was kind of maybe the process? Was it meticulous and there was a business plan, or was it kind of, let's jump in and figure it out? How did you approach it?

Joaquin:

I don't really do anything without a plan. You know, the name by design, it really, to me, everything that I do has to be well planned. So I was interviewing reps for the position. And all of a sudden, I started thinking on a Friday night, you know, can I do it? So probably around 10:00 a.m., 10:00 p.m., I started writing a business plan. I was done probably by between, I don't know, 7:30, 8 o'clock in the morning on Saturday. And Monday, I went into the office and I put in my two weeks notice. But I did tell him, I'm not leaving unless you give me the line to represent in Southern California. So believe it or not, though, I did go through an interview process at Stewart and I ended up getting the line. And so that was, but yes, I certainly had a plan. The plan has grown, changed as our industry changed. But I think that the core of that business plan is still very relevant now. It's just been changes. I never really thought, or I never wanted more than nine lines when I started. Where are you at now? 20. 20. Now, and I have a whole reason. There's, as I said before, to me, everything that I do is by design. In order for you to have the right infrastructure as a rep, and this is not something that you can brag about, but you have to have revenue. You have to and you have to have revenue and you have to have the infrastructure. But it is, business becomes tougher the more lines you have because you have to learn every single one of those lines, the why, the how, right? So, but as of now, you know, we have the right amount of resources for the launch.

Ron:

In general, you made a comment at the very beginning about you had built that little vignette to show off shades, and then that line changed, and now you didn't have that vendor to represent. And that just raises this issue, this concept for reps, that you're always in a precarious situation. I'm making an assumption here. I don't know. I haven't read your contract, so I don't know. But I think I know approximately how it works, which is that manufacturers could often pull away from you at any point, and you could have helped them build an entire market only for it to evaporate in, you know, a 30-day exit clause or a 90-day exit clause. And that makes that business model, I don't know, precarious. Like, so you're like out there leveraging your relationships, but at the same time, it can be really tough.

Joaquin:

It is, and it's 100% right. In that particular case, there was a breach of contract there. But I mean, what are you gonna do, right? I mean, I don't wanna waste my time with it. So I didn't do anything about that because it was, we received the manufacturer as for a list of projects that were coming up. Of course, we supply that. And then overnight, one of my dealers called me, said, "Hey, what happened?" I'm like, "What do you mean?" Well, this line is, you know, now going through this channel. I'm like, and it was another rep, it's just they got bought out. But again, we didn't know that we were no longer the reps. So typically you have, as a rep, we definitely want a 90-day, you know, what is it called a contract? Most are 30 days. And yes, it's just not, it does not make business sense. It really doesn't. But we are pretty lucky that we have had, again, you know, Stuart from the very beginning, Barkle from the very beginning, cinema tech. So most of those lines, what I mean to say is that we have been able to keep them, but it's not at all a real good match. Should I say that it's not, it should be changed.

Ron:

The model should be changed.

Joaquin:

The model has, and it will change. As you see now throughout the country, there's areas that no longer will have reps because a lot of the reps have gotten older and they are retiring. And there is no new reps coming up because it's not a good model. Now, you know, talking about what the benefits of an independent rep is.

Ron:

Well, I'm going to clarify that question. So is a rep better than a direct sales force? Or is a direct sales force better than a direct, than a manufacturer's rep? And how do you think about that? And I'm not trying to get too controversial here. So take that with what you will.

Joaquin:

No, no, no. And honestly, it doesn't have to be. I think that bottom line is if you have an independent rep, if you decide to hire an independent rep. Well, first of all, if you think about it in our industry, sorry, how many manufacturers do you know of that have been successful with direct rep sales force? Even you worked for Crestron years ago. I worked for Lutron and I worked for Crestron. Yeah. Yes, even Crestron. Now I love Lutron on that sense though, but even Crestron had reps at the beginning.

Ron:

They did in certain markets. I mean, like Lutron, again, disclaimer here. I'm not pretending that I know how all these guys go to business today. But I know Lutron's business model when I was there was there where they had a sales force. So I was a sales engineer. And they then always had reps. In all the channels they would operate in, there were reps. They believed in the benefit of a territory manager, direct person managing reps that actually had the field relationships. And at Crestron, when I went there, they had some reps around the country, but then they all, at that time, they had a direct sales force. And so in, for example, the markets where there were also reps, there was a direct salesperson that then would help, you know, oversee that rep agent. But the rep agent, you know, knows where, knows all the dealers, has the relationships, has the local market knowledge.

Joaquin:

And that would be the key, Ron, that let's say you hire a direct salesperson. He may have some relationships, okay? But they don't know about every project that is going on in the territory. Also, when dealers are busy, if you have one brand to talk about, how often do you make changes on that brand that would be critical to that dealer? But it's only one brand, right? So you're knocking on doors. Many of those doors will not open, not because they don't want to see you, not because they don't want to talk to you. It's just that they're busy, right? Now, if you can not control, but if you are, if you are doing business with 10 of my brands, you're gonna have to open the door, one reason or the other. Okay, so also overnight, as an independent person, how long is it gonna take you to create accounts? For us, overnight, we already have all the relationships. Overnight, we shipped or we sent a, you know, some kind of communication to say, "Hey, we now represent this brand. These are the reasons why you should look into it." You know, do your business a favor and look into this brand. So overnight, you can have exposure up to, you know, a few hundred dealers. If you're doing directly, plus if it is direct, you're paying a salary. With a rep, you only pay if you grow. So it's a huge difference. Business, it's a lot faster. It gets branding, it's a lot faster. So big differences. And what I was saying about Lutron, yes, that's one of the things that Lutron is probably the one line that in our industry that reps to a certain degree admire because they, even though they're so big, they understand what reps do for them and they compensate them properly. So I think that that's a.

Ron:

Well, I want to jump into compensation. Again, maybe a bit controversial, but I'm just gonna, I'm gonna call a spade a spade. I believe in sales, people should be, you know, paid according to what they're able to produce. It is, in many regards, a eat what you kill environment. But there are also, maybe in the case of reps, are markets where, you know, the cost of living or just the cost of doing business is higher than in other places. And it would seem logical that manufacturers might account for that some way in their rep modeling. Is that currently the case? And do you agree that that's something that should be done, or do you think differently?

Joaquin:

At a certain point, everything's gonna have to change, right? Because right now, you know, it's just the scale is upside down. I agree with you 100%. If you look at, you know, Florida, for example, that's where you live. Cost of living is less than California. Cost of doing business in Southern California, especially for a small business. Southern California makes it almost impossible. California in general makes it impossible for you to do business. It's expensive. So why I'm sure that our why do we pay the same? You know.

Ron:

Why does a manufacturer pay the same?

Joaquin:

Correct, same percentage. And yes, they'll tell you that it's because the territory could accumulate to more. But again, cost of doing business is quite wild in some areas and it's a lot less expensive than others. Minimum wage, if you think about it, is different. So that's something that should be addressed. And as I said before, hopefully not too late in the near future, but all this is gonna have to come down to, you know, sort of a revolution, perhaps. Yeah. As I said earlier, because in some areas, you no longer have reps. In some areas, you only have a couple of reps, and now they're overlined. And, you know, it's difficult to do a good job at that. So, and I think that, and not to blame this on, you know, like CEDIA, for example, but anything that is done within the industry is highlighting the manufacturer and the dealer. No one really knows what the rep does. And as a rep, we only want our dealers to be successful. That's the only way that we make a living. So we want our dealers to kill it, and we want to be there to support it, to kill it. So that's, you know, it's in many cases not known. They don't know what a rep is supposed to do.

Ron:

I remember, I'll just say my time at Crestron, they would put, quote, the top salespeople up on stage at the annual sales meeting and interview them on what their keys to success were. And if you looked at those top salespeople year in and year out, they were almost always the same people and in different economic conditions. Yet the top salespeople were usually the same folks up there. And so my observation or takeaway from that is there is in sales, everybody is not equal. There are people that are more effective at connecting with the customer. And I remember in my days when I was out there doing the manufacturer thing, my opinion was the success of my hitting numbers actually had very little to do with my products. It had to do with me understanding my customer and helping solve their business problems. And the gigawatts or flux capacitor details of the products were actually very much secondary. That's my belief system. I'm curious for you as it relates to this direct salesperson versus rep, is it that it's the model is right or wrong, or is it the people? And how do you think about that in terms of, say, a manufacturer that's trying to come up with the right structure to help them go to market and grow their business?

Joaquin:

You know, I think it's a little bit of both, right? Because I think at this point, definitely the people, I'm a huge believer that is and it takes us forever to choose a brand. So we definitely want good brands, good product. But nevertheless, I do believe in our team here believes that it's all about the people. People love doing business with people they love. So the product becomes, whether we like it or not, secondary. So the people do matter, but in many cases, though, if we're talking about direct and independent, it doesn't have to be that he doesn't have the right personality. It doesn't have to be, you know, he may be a people person as well. It's just, in many of those cases, because an independent rep has been able to create a standing relationship with that dealer and that dealer selling 15 of his brands, that business, you know, that business needs that rep to be present for one reason or the other. Help on design on this product. Perhaps it's, you know, many people don't understand power. So perhaps SurgeX or perhaps any of the lines that the rep may have, he's there to help him through design, help him through deployment, help him through.

Ron:

It's almost like a personal consultant to the business aiding process flow and projects moving more with less friction or more fluidly.

Joaquin:

Correct. And you're talking about creating a puzzle, right? So if that one individual that is supporting you, as you said, consulting knows about the whole puzzle, it's so much better than somebody coming in with one piece of that puzzle, right? Because they don't know how that piece of the puzzle relates to everything else. So I think it's a little bit of both. I don't know if I answer that.

Ron:

If you were to give, you've been selling for much of your career, Joaquin, and by most measures, you're very successful. What are, you know, one, two, three, four? What are a number of sales fundamentals that you think you practice well that have led to some of your success? They've been contributors to your success.

Joaquin:

I honestly think probably just one. I'll do what I said I'd do, you know? And I think that every, if they, I try to get to know the individual and they know that I'm always gonna be there. It's just about honesty. And as a, you know, I don't think I don't call myself a salesperson. My job is to give advice, or not even advice, but just to talk about, if you're asking about projectors, I will make sure that if the end user asks about a projector, I'll tell them, "Hey, we have a $535,000 projector." And then of course the why, right? Cause a lot of people in our industry don't buy because just lack of knowledge. So I wanna make sure that I tell them, if you're looking at cars, I wanna tell you what cars they are. Of course, once I know what, you know, kind of a car, if you're looking off-roading, I'll tell you about Jeep, I'll tell you about Bronco, I'll tell you, you know, Hummer. So I think it's not selling. It's more of letting them know what is available for them. But again, to me, it's just, it's people. So it's just being honest. Do what I said I was going to do.

Ron:

Do what you're going to do. Why do you think more salespeople don't do that effectively?

Joaquin:

So I'm very vocal. Maybe we don't even have to broaden that and say salespeople. Maybe we can say, why do people in business not do that more?

Joaquin:

You know, we all depend. We all depend on somebody, right? As a rep, we depend on our manufacturers. And unfortunately, we want to help. And if we're dealing with the manufacturer that it's not as responsive, that's why I said earlier that it takes me forever to choose a manufacturer. I tell you, if we need something for AVP Pro Edge, I know I'll call Steve or Matt or even the owner. I could reach out to them and say, "Hey, I really need this." And it's gonna happen like that, right? I know I cannot do that with every manufacturer, not that we represent, but other manufacturers, right? So to me, that means the world. If I need something from Marco, I'll call Daniel in, you know, it's like that. So to me, that really matters. My point is that in many cases, it's not the fault, perhaps, of the individual, because if it was up to us, we would love to move the world immediately. But when you depend on other people, it becomes a challenge. So our biggest job that we owe to ourselves is choose the brands properly according to the people. Now, of course, the product has to perform, but the people matter. So I think that it's not the individual, maybe that they depend on somebody that is not as responsive as they are. Perhaps.

Ron:

I love it. Joaquin, I love that you joined me for show 259 here on Automation Unplugged. I am going to put up on the screen for everyone watching. This is your website, which is by design VSM.com. So that's BY Design VSM.com. But anybody else that wants to get in touch with you directly? Do we want to send them to a social media channel? Do you want to give out any other contact information for people that might want to chat?

Joaquin:

Email Jessica. No. No, so I think the website is a great way to start and of course we're always available. First name at by designVsn.com. That's our email. Whether it's Jessica, whether it's myself, whether it's Benito, Ryan, Tommy, Felicia, Nathan. First name at ByDesignVSM.com. Awesome.

Ron:

Joaquin, it's been a pleasure having you on the show. You are, you're one of the best in the business. You're a class act. So appreciate you joining me and sharing some of that wisdom.

Ron:

I appreciate that, Ron. Likewise, man. I appreciate what you've been doing with your company. That's sort of like, okay, now if he's been able to do it, why can't we? It's sort of marketing, you know, same kind of.

Ron:

The answer is you totally can do it, and I'm happy to talk shop or riff on that anytime, man. I love nothing more than to talk about how to help our mutual clients grow. And I love talking business and strategy and just kind of playing the, what if you did this? Would it help you achieve that? So I'm right here, man. I'm happy to riff with you, whether it's in-person at our upcoming trade shows, Lightapalooza and all the other fun places will be together, but and/or virtually. You know, talking about an investment, that's a great investment that dealers have to make. Lightapalooza. I really, I think it's going to change. It's changed in our world.

Ron:

Lighting is easily when I'm in, you know, my conversations with business owners and I'm talking to them about what area their business is growing. Are they most excited about? I'd say for the better part of the last couple of years now, the standing answer is lighting. Lighting, lighting, lighting. So if you haven't booked your ticket and I know I've talked to a few folks that, yeah, I've thought about LightAppalooza. Stop stalling. Go to lightapalooza.com. Check it out. You're going to be around some of the best and brightest people in the entire industry in North America. They're going to be in that building in Phoenix, and you're all going to be learning together. And they get to meet the Joaquin Rivera in person. So he will be there. He will shake hands. He will sign autographs or just have a beer with you at the bar. Joaquin, appreciate you, buddy. We'll be in touch.

Joaquin:

Likewise, sir.

Ron:

All right, folks, there you have it. That was show 259. Joaquin Rivera. He's, you know, he's one of those fixtures in our industry. He's been at the shows for years. He is just so well respected and liked, and he just does it with that humanness in his approach to people and relationships. He was mentioning, I don't remember if he mentioned it live or if it was before we went live, but he was talking about at a lot of those CEDIA regionals or different trade shows, he loves nothing more than to put together events, whether it's get togethers after the events of the day, just so that he can spend that quality time with his customers or just industry folks. Because at the end of the day, this is like a work family. It's an industry family and we all know it when we go to the events. We've seen each other for years, sometimes decades. And we're all trying to push the ball forward, push the ball down the field and grow this thing. And we don't have it all figured out. No one of us has it all figured out, but collectively there's a lot of wisdom there. And it's just, it's been a lot of fun getting to know Joaquin even closer here over the last few months that he and I have been talking. So I'm glad he joined us on the show. I'm glad you've tuned in. And I think I'm gonna sign off. I've got a bunch of travel personally coming up. I'm gonna be out at Social Media Marketing World talking to other marketing agency owners about the way they, the way we here at One Firefly are thinking about artificial intelligence and adapting and integrating that into our business. That's a higher level principle of change management and how to make change. And, you know, as Joaquin said, there's, you know, 80 folks here at one Firefly and we've been doing things certain ways. And so how do you adapt and change to what is the new normal? And then I'll be out there at LightaPalooza in Phoenix. I'll be on stage a few times. I'll be leading a panel discussion on landscape lighting. So people that are looking to get into the landscape lighting business, got some industry experts. I'll be talking about sales and marketing strategies there. A lot of wisdom on that panel. Definitely wanna tune into that. And we will be leading a class on process and kind of marketing and how to think about strategically think about your business and how do you look at where you're trying to go and how do you look at the different tools and strategies in place that ultimately could help you get there. And then SEO, search engine optimization. There's a lot changing in the world in terms of online search. Google's changing their algorithms. There's this new generation of something called generative search and everything's different and it's different right now and it's gonna continue to be even more different as we move forward in the months ahead. And we want you to all at least know what we know. So as we're collecting information and redesigning strategies, we're gonna be sharing that. So at LightaPalooza, I'll be on stage and talking to you about this new frontier of online search and SEO. And it's gonna be pure information. My goal is that you take these things I'm talking about and go back and research them further on your own or implement them with your marketing team, whether they're in your office or a local agency. And of course, if you want us to help, we'd be happy to. But tremendous amounts of education at LightaPalooza. It is to kick off the year learning and growing. I can't think of a better way to spend your time and money. And I know Joaquin feels the same. So appreciate you all. Thanks for tuning in. And I will see you on the flip side of these couple of weeks of travel with more automation unplugged. So on that note, I'm gonna sign off. Thanks, everybody. See you soon.

SHOW NOTES:

Joaquin's immersion in the industry traces back to his upbringing, with a remarkable fifteen-year journey as an integral part of the team at Stewart Filmscreen, a leading force in video projection screens. Commencing his career in production at Stewart Filmscreen, Joaquin swiftly transitioned to various pivotal roles, including Marketing, Inside Sales, International Sales, Factory Liaison, National Sales Manager, and ultimately becoming the first VP in Stewart's history not bearing the Stewart surname.

When faced with the loss of Stewart's longtime representative in California, Arizona, Vegas, and Hawaii, Joaquin, along with his co-worker and friend Benito, decided it was time for a change. In 2014, they took the bold step to establish ByDesign Vision & Sound Marketing Inc. Joaquin's unwavering dedication has earned recognition within the industry, manifested through several awards bestowed upon him over the years

Ron Callis is the CEO of One Firefly, LLC, a digital marketing agency based out of South Florida and creator of Automation Unplugged. Founded in 2007, One Firefly has quickly became the leading marketing firm specializing in the integrated technology and security space. The One Firefly team work hard to create innovative solutions to help Integrators boost their online presence, such as the elite website solution, Mercury Pro.

Resources and links from the interview: