Home Automation Unplugged Episode #248: An Industry Q&A with Ian Williams
Automation Unplugged #248 features Ian Williams, CEO of Aspire Audio Video Solutions. Join us for an exciting show that dives deep into the challenges of opening a new business during the pandemic, the state of hiring in the AV industry, and more!
This week's episode of Automation Unplugged features our host Ron Callis interviewing Ian Wiilliams. Recorded live on Wednesday, August 09th, 2023, at 12:30 pm EST.
About Ian Williiams
Ian Williams has worked in the Custom Integration industry for 22 years. In 2007 he founded Encore Custom Audio Video.Since then they have won ten CEDIA awards, earned the Mark of Excellence Award, and were named Integrator of the Year at CES in Las Vegas in January of 2015.
In early 2017, Ian sold Encore to Casaplex. Over the next three years, Ian built strong teams, created processes, and helped maintain strong margins at Casaplex and Starr Systems.
Ian and his wife Janet moved to Charleston, SC in 2019 where they opened Aspire AVS in 2019 as a family owned and operated business. Ian opened a second location in his hometown of Washington, DC in 2020.
Ian & Janet have three boys and enjoy sunsets, playing with their four dogs, enjoying nature, and having dinner together as a family.
Interview Recap
- The challenges of opening a business in the midst of a pandemic
- Ians take on the current state of hiring in the Av industry
- Aspires new project R&D Lab and how this has impacted quality and delivery.
SEE ALSO: Home Automation Podcast Episode #247 An Industry Q&A with John Henkel
Transcript
Ron:
Hello, hello, Ron Callis here with another episode of Automation Unplugged. Happy Wednesday. Today is August 9th. It's a few minutes after 12:30 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. And I hope you're all doing well. You know, we're coming here to almost the golden hour of summer. And in a couple of weeks, kids are going to be going back to school. I know my little one, he's going to be starting the ninth grade in a couple of weeks. And that, of course, is super exciting. And what's even more exciting is I have a returning guest for you today for show 248. And our guest actually was last on Automation Unplugged back on show 94. And that was all the way back in January of 2020. So we're actually getting a...that was the pre-COVID show. I'm pretty sure if you watch that show, you won't even hear us mention COVID, and I don't think you'll hear us talk about it too much here post-COVID, but there were obviously a pretty turbulent couple of years, two or three years there in between. So, let's go ahead and bring in my guest. This is Ian Williams. He's president and owner at Aspire Audio Video Solutions, and I’ve known Ian for a long time, and I'm excited. He and I have not had a chance to catch up in great detail, so we're going to do it live here with all of you tuning in. So let me bring in Ian. Ian, how are you, sir?Ian:
Hey, good, Ron. How are you?Ron:
I am good. I'm actually gonna...here, let me try to put it on the screen. There we are, back in January of 2020, and here's the show page on our website. If anyone wants to go and check that out. But how has January 2020 to the present treated you?Ian:
I think pretty well. I mean, it's been a dramatic change with the business, you know? And that was tough. You're right, we did talk in January 2020. And I incorporated the business a month prior to that, and this is my third business, and then literally two months after we spoke, it was troubled times, because we just started. So, you know, that whole year, you know, me and a couple other new staff members, we could not get out to spread the good word about Aspire and talk about our brand and our business. So it was a little tough.Ron:
How did you make it through that, man? Launching a business going right into COVID. I mean, how did you make it through that?Ian:
Yeah, so, you know, obviously I started the business with my own money, and I had a little bit of cash on the side. But what I did, and you're going to think this is crazy, is I ended up opening up a second location.Ron:
That's brilliant. You know, if one wasn't hard enough, let's open up number two.Ian:
That's right. Alright, so in June of 2020, you know, a few months into COVID, I decided to open up another location, which is in my hometown where I grew up for 42 years, which is Washington, D.C. And the reason why is just what you mentioned. So here in Charleston, South Carolina, where, you know, our home base is, I couldn't get out in front of anybody. But what I did is I reached out to a lot of my old contacts that I did business with, with Encore Custom Audio Video. And what I did is I asked them, you know, I said, if I open up another location in Washington, would you support us and do business with us? And it was a resounding yes. I reached out to maybe six or eight people, a couple architects, a couple builders, an interior designer, and I was just overwhelmed by the positive energy that people responded with. And, you know, that kind of kicked Washington off. And it's really funny, Washington is a much larger city than Charleston, but Washington just blossomed. It just went, you know, zero to a hundred fairly quickly, to where it didn't really have...we only had a couple employees and then, you know, here we go. We're getting a space and we're outfitting the space and, and really kind of taking off, and really putting a footprint in the D.C. area. In the meantime, Ron, I'm still down here in Charleston getting business and growing this location as well.Ron:
So tell us from what you're able or willing to share, how do you operationally run the two locations? Like, who's running D.C. and how do you guys act and operate as one?Ian:
Yeah, that's a great question. So, you know, I've always been involved from day one and I still am. So, you know, I'm really just a resource at this point for the company. So, anybody that needs help, they can reach out to me, and I will help them. So, I'm not in the field anymore. You know, I've kind of taken a backseat. My background is in operations. So, I love being on a job site, and I love interacting with the builders and the guys. But as I age, it's been a little bit more difficult, so I've kind of taken a backseat, and so I'm that resource. Also, what was really key is I brought Janet to the business. And she is our admin and office manager, and she has just way surpassed my expectations, and she is the glue that holds this business together other than me, but together we manage both of these locations. So the key was to hire somebody in Washington that I could absolutely trust. And I did that. That was the first person I hired. And then everybody after that are also people that are older, have been around the business for a long time that don't really need a whole lot of micromanaging. And so I can kind of set them free and empower them to make decisions on their own and really go out on those job sites and flourish. Because in the beginning, I already created processes being at Star Systems and Casaplex and also my own business for two businesses prior for 13 years. So I had everything in place prior to opening. So it's been a fairly smooth transition.Ron:
What has that growth trajectory looked like? I mean, are you growing 10% a year, 100% a year, you know, I mean, up and down years, kind of what the last 40 years have looked like?Ian:
We've grown 100% every year. So we've doubled our revenue every year. So that first year was, you know, $600K. The next year was $1.2 million. Last year was over $2 million. And then this year, I don't know if we're going to double this year, all right? So let's pump the brakes a little bit. And where that revenue dip is, we built out a space. So, you know, I put a lot of money back into Aspire in Washington. And so we built a really nice space there, which we can talk about on the show and, you know, I'm investing in employees. So, you know, we're going out there, we're doing our due diligence, you know, we have a lot of spaces open here at Aspire. And I'm looking for the best of the best, and really anybody that wants to, you know, really see my vision about operations and how we deliver projects, which is really important to me, and I think that's a key step that a lot of integrators usually miss. That's, you know, that last 5% of that project and just the overall craftsmanship, the delivery of the project, most of the time it’s pretty sloppy.Ron:
Why do you think that is, Ian? I know you're a stickler for detail and kind of, as you just said, craftsmanship, the idea that craftsmanship is at the entirety of the project, from your first interactions with the customer all the way through the sales process, through installation, through completing the project. And I'll put extra emphasis on actually completing the project, that last 10%, and doing that at the same quality as you start the project. Why, what's your perception of how often that is actually done at that highest level? And then, why do you think it is?Ian:
Yeah, I've thought about this a lot, you know, throughout the years, and this is something I thought about, you know, when I opened up Aspire. It's really important to me over all these years, 22 years now, and hey, I'm guilty, I've been one of these guys with my businesses that has delivered a half-assed project at the end and really didn't give the client probably what they really deserved in terms of quality. I mean, the system worked, but it just was, like, eh, you know, rack a little sloppy, you know, probably not the best in terms of service with labels and all that stuff. So, you know, when I opened up Aspire, I said to myself, how can we deliver a project where, one - we can be efficient and quick. Because clients are at the tail-end of a new construction project, the last thing they want is an integrator at their house for a month. They want to move in, they want to enjoy - you know, it’s probably been a longer build than what they were expecting. It always goes over. And they’re pretty much tired of trades at that point. And you know, we’re always the last one in, and that’s tough to begin with.Ron:
Does a lot of their anger, frustration then get directed towards you as the last trade on the job?Ian:
Exactly, exactly. 100% percent. So what I’ve tried to do here is to spend the least amount of time on a job. And the only way to do that is to pretty much create the job in the office, right? And so we've kind of taken rack fabrication to a whole other level. So most really good organizations have rack fabrication, you know, they pre-build racks and, you know, they wire them up and they send them out. That's only half of it. That's really only half the battle, okay? Because you still, at that point, have to go to the job site. You have to configure all of your network. You have to install, you know, anything that you need to install, such as TVs and other equipment, gateways, you know, Zigbee repeaters, and then you're usually relying on Comcast or AT&T or Verizon for service. And so, you're still kind of scrambling a little bit with that method, and you're still unsure of, like, are the wires going to work? Or, you know, once we get this thing hooked up, is it really going to go? And then, of course, you hook it up to the best of your ability. You start jumping into programming, and you end up sitting there for two to three weeks, trying to get those last finer details done. All the macros, you know, Josh.ai and, you know, all those things, and that's what kills you. That's what kills the job, is that labor, trying to figure things out, running all over the house with three and four techs, on walkie talkies, trying to, you know, detect wires and, and why stuff isn't working, and toning stuff out. You know, probably people mislabeled stuff. I mean, it just becomes a nightmare, right? And so, at that point, you start to look a little incompetent in front of the client, if they're there. And so what I've noticed over the years, is they start to get a little impatient. You know, half the project's working, they see the guy scrambling, trying to get the other stuff done, and it's just taking really long. So, you know, I said to myself, how can we not do that? How can we not be that company that goes out there scrambling at the last minute, spending three, four weeks on these large projects in front of our clients that really don't want us there? Right? And so what I did is I created, in this new space in Washington, I created not only a sophisticated rack fab area that's got all the bells and whistles, everything any tech could ever want, tool chest, you know, it's got a plotter back there, it's got everything, right? All the rack screws, zip ties, you name it, they have whatever they need to be successful. On the other side of that, what I did is I took an 8-10,000 square foot house, our typical job, okay, and I crammed it into one room. So, I have, you know, a whole wall of Sonance speakers, 16 zones of audio. I had the capability to configure eight APs, eight cameras. We have two different manufactured TVs on the wall, which are all hooked up to RBX back boxes so we can do all of our balance, our extractors, our touch panels, our remotes. And then on the left, we have all of our centralized lighting that can accommodate either Lutron or Control4. And we have all of our keypads, all the wiring there. So we can actually take the keypads out of the box. We can do all of our DIN rail stuff. And we have 48 zones of lights with actual light bulbs that we can intermingle. We can put, you know, an LED in there. We can put an incandescent, a halogen strip lighting, Ketra, you know, we're big Ketra fans. We do a lot of it. And so this way it enables us to configure the project, do everything we need to do and oversee. We can, you know, configure both the NVRs with the cameras. We can get material out of the box. We can set our TVs in there, get up our TVs, we can test the balance, we can test the extractors, we can test keypads, lighting, our gateways, extenders, everything. And then on top of it, on the same wall with the TVs, we have a 7.2.4 Dolby Atmos system, so that we can configure our AV receivers and our amplifiers, our preamps, all of that gear, right then and there. So not only do we rackfab and wire it, we then take, what I call a loop or a pigtail, from the rack, and we connect it to the same head-end enclosures that are out on the job site. So I'm spilling the beans here about my process and my operations, but why I'm telling everybody on this show is so that they can maybe get intrigued and maybe do the same thing. And it is an investment. It really is, but we can have the whole job, except for cable boxes and satellite boxes, 100% complete.Ron:
Is this the vision for what you will do? This is what you are doing right now, and are you, if you're doing it, are you doing it in both locations, both in Charleston and in D.C.? What are the logistics there?Ian:
It is what we're doing now. It is live, it is active, it is going. Our space is, our projects are being run through this project, start to finish. The guys, you know, we just hit a little lull for, like, a week, and they rackfabbed and programmed a $250,000 job in, like, three or four days, and it's done. So all we need to do is go there, and pull up the rack, take that pigtail that's already terminated, and put it into the enclosure and snap it in to patch panels, both for, we use patch panels, both for audio and video and anything that's CAT6 driven, and it's all labeled, it's all certified. We certify all of our wires in these patch panels on the trim phase. So when we go, it's plug and play.Ron:
So at the job site, you've already certified every wire, that it's terminated properly and no issues. So in what stage does that happen?Ian:
That happens at the trim phase. So you have the head end, you have the enclosures and then you have the room, right? So let's just say that for simplicity’s sake of this show, you have a multi-jack with two cat and an RG6. That's going down to the panel. Maybe that's a TV that's on the wall. You know, that would be, we have our whole process when we do the pre-wire, how our wires are labeled, but when they get to the head end, they'll have the room name and then a number associated with that wire, and then it all gets patched down in a certain way so that we can duplicate that at the office or the shop. So when we get there, yes, those wires are all labeled and they're certified on a Fluke Certifier. So it is an investment. But, I know that all those wires are, they can carry 5 gig, 1 gig, and they're good. So we can actually put it in a computer and then hand that print out to the builder and the homeowner to say, here's your wires, all your wires in your house, all 106 drops, and they've all been certified, and here's the certified sheet.Ron:
How do you..…and this might be too much in the weeds, and so if anything is proprietary, just, you know, let me know. But what you're describing sounds like you would get in and out of a job quicker, and so that can be met with, maybe you could address that one of a couple ways. You could say, I can charge less labor, therefore my project prices can be lower and therefore I'm more competitive or I'll win more jobs. Or, you can say, and by the way, I think both of these are really good ideas, or you could say, I'm gonna bid the normal competitive time to do XYZ, and if I've built processes that let me do it faster, then I could let that track to the bottom line, and I can run jobs more profitably than, say, most that don't follow such a process. How are you thinking about it?Ian:
Yeah, so we do slightly less hours, but higher charge on the labor because this takes a certain individual. This is not, you know, entry level or mid-level tech in those spaces, right? These are highly paid employees that know what they're doing, and do it very well. So, you know, we should be compensated for that. We should also be compensated for our efficiency and our professionalism, so it's not as many hours, but it's more per hour, if that makes sense.Ron:
Got it. Now,that's awesome. The system, do you have a name for this system? This method?Ian:
Not yet. Not yet. But we all have a system. And so, you know, I'm not trying to spill the beans too much, but where my vision is on this, is at some point in the next two to three years, I'd like to roll this out to the public, right? To help other integrators.Ron:
Sounds like a franchisable business method.Ian:
Yes. You know, really get it dialed in. You know, we just started this about two months ago, and so, you know, we are, along with the other showroom, open now, 100%. And so, I do want to franchise it. And I want to basically help other integrators be more efficient, look more professional on job sites, and really understand how important operations are. And I don't know if I answered your previous question about sales. And I'll just jump back to that.Ron:
Yeah, do it.Ian:
Most ownership and most groups and most integration firms in the country are sales heavy, right? They're concentrating on deals and partnerships and all that stuff. That's not what I do. I have people, I pay people to go out there and business develop and sell and bring projects to Aspire, full-time employees. So my focus has been on operations. So I've always been geared, even when I was a technician, to the craftsmanship of each project. And I think, from the top down, from ownership, it's just not conveyed to the technicians that it's important. You know, the technicians, they don't know. They don't know. You have to teach them and the technicians need to learn that that's not the right way. Now, if you have someone in sales and they don't know the right way, well, there's no way that they can convey that message or really show them, because they themselves, they probably don't understand it that way.Ron:
I want to pivot gears and talk about…..you did open the office in D.C. and you are a growing business. What's the hiring climate like out there?Ian:
It's tough. I mean, it's a big city, you know, 7 million people and we're still struggling. I've tried several different avenues on how to, you know, bring in new people. You know, we're looking for, I think, really great people rather than technical ability. It's always been my sort of ammo, or MO, is to hire great people, not necessarily people that are skilled. And so that's been really hard. You know, there's plenty of people out there that can put in speakers and put in, you know, hang TVs, but do they fit, you know, what we're trying to accomplish here at Aspire? And my thing is, man, it's got to be the best. You know, if we're going to do this and we're going to get involved with clients and work on these projects, I think, as a whole in the industry, we need to do the very best we can. You know, we got a bad rep out there.Ron:
Not a supplier, but the industry.Ian:
Correct. The industry itself has had some really bad experiences for clients and homeowners and most of our clients and homeowners have had these systems before so it's something that we always have to…..a challenge we have to overcome in that sales process. And that's where we talk about the process that we have and have put in place, and so once clients can come in, they can see it, they can come in and see it. We have a glass window, even if someone's in there working. And that was just done, I thought, how cool, right? Like guys with cloaks and, like scientists working there in a lab, you know, testing and configuring. I always thought that was a good idea.Ron:
That's pretty cool.Ian:
Yeah, no, it is. But, you know, to get back to hiring, it's really been tough. I've worked with hell, four or five recruiters at one time and, you know, it seems...Ron:
What works with recruiters and what doesn't work with recruiters? And I'm sure everyone listening or watching this is going to be leaning in, because they're going to feel your challenges and empathize with what you're going through and or have been through. So what's good about recruiters and what's the challenge with recruiters today, from your experience?Ian:
I'll be honest with you. I don't know if there's anything good, to be honest with you.Ron:
You gotta have some redeeming qualities. Do they return your calls?Ian:
Yes. So, I will say, most of them are responsive. They do return calls. And they do continue to give us leads. However, there's a but. The quality of leads that they push through, it's like they're just throwing and hoping it sticks, right? There's no rhyme or reason. They're not giving you people that are actually looking to change or looking for a new role. You know, they're literally reaching out to people on LinkedIn and social media and saying, hey, if I could get you the same job, but you're making more money, would you be open to that? And younger folks are always, you know, maybe they're starting a family, maybe they have a baby on the way, maybe, you know, they're looking for something different because they're not happy in their current situation. So, we always get those guys, but they're never vetted. They're never really run through, like, a quality checklist. You know, we get guys all the time, oh, Lutron Certified, Control4 Programming, and most of these guys don't know how to do any of it. It's like they may have watched one of their technicians do it, so they feel that they, you know, can write that down on a resume for some reason. And I think it's within the recruiter's best interest to kind of gloat and make them look better than what they really are. So with that, you really have to do your due diligence and really kind of dive in with a microscope and start looking at their resume. And then what you do is a really thorough first interview. I always do a Zoom call. I want to see posture. I want to see if they're looking me in the eye. I want to see if they're jittery. I want to see a lot of qualities as a person. Remember, I'm hiring people. I'm not hiring skills, so a lot of people don't have that, you know, they just don't have the right posture. I had one guy who did a Zoom call with me. He was literally on a deck in shorts with his feet up with sunglasses on and his hat turned sideways, and I was just like…..I ended the interview in about 15 seconds. I said, I'm sorry, I'm not interested. I wish you the best of luck. Just ended it there.Ron:
I mean, mind blowing that somebody would show up like that.Ian:
Yeah, so it's almost like they don't coach their people. And when you're paying 20%, yeah, you know, for a guy that you're looking forward to making $80,000? I mean, you're stroking them a check for $15 grand. So my expectation with that kind of money is, you know, there better be some quality attached to that, whether it's a skill or, you know, people qualities.Ron:
Well, what's your opinion, Ian, on the match of the individual that's a candidate that you're recruiting, you're getting from these recruiters, and the match that they would, I'm going to say, in an ideal world, they would match up with your company culture. And I'm just going to say, like, does that even sound like that should be the goal? And if that is the goal, you know, tell me what that means to you.Ian:
Yeah, absolutely. So I can kind of read people at this point, you know, you probably can too, after so long, and hiring and firing individuals. You know, I can kind of see their body language when they come in. So first, ours is a phone call, usually starts out as a really short call. Then we do a Zoom, then we meet in person. And then potentially bring them back a second time to meet some more people within the organization. And then, you know, my top guys, I always get a little feedback. Hey, how did you feel? Did you get a good vibe? And it's always hard, you know, you really never know what you get until you hire them and put them out there. It's really hard. And you know that. It's like it's impossible through, even if you do five interviews, you know, they're telling you what you want to hear anyway. So you really don't know until you bring them on and it's three months in, right? But what you can do is pick up on subtleties, body language, like I talked about. So what I look for is when someone comes into our space and they see, you know, shades and Palladiom and Bowers & Wilkins and Josh.ai and all this really cool tech, and then they see our new center. And I really talk about, you know, what it is we're about, what we're doing. When I see somebody just, like, jaw-dropped and, like, excited and they just light up, like, you know, a kid in a candy store, I know that that's probably a good candidate. Like, they are very interested in what we're doing and what our process is. And, you know, you just get certain feedback. Wow, I've never seen anything like this. You know, I remember working for such-and-such and we did this, but they're not doing this. Wow, you guys have this and you can show this to clients. I really love your setup. Just little things like that, you can tell they’re really into it. And then there’s people who walk in, and they’re not even noticing things, they’re not really engaged, it’s really like they’re focused on the money. They’re focused on just getting a job. And that’s what I don’t want here. I don’t want people working here who are just a 9 to 5. I really want people to buy into the vision, which I don't know if I want to go into too much. We talked about that a little bit, and really buy in to what we're doing here, the way we execute projects, the way that we treat our clients, which is really sort of, I really like the way BMW and Mercedes do it, you know, it's like a white glove service. You know, there's callbacks, there's, you know, they really go out of their way to make you feel like you're wanted and needed, and it's a good feeling.Ron:
And valued as a customer.Ian:
Yeah, and valued. And we've all hopefully had a chance to experience that one time or another in our life, whether it was a hotel or a car dealership. And so that's the level of service that we're trying to provide here. And so there's no little detail that really doesn't get, you know, really unturned or dealt with.Ron:
What are the challenges to fully realizing that vision? That vision of delivering that uber luxury, you mentioned B&W and Mercedes, that experience to the customer. What are the challenges you have today to fully realize that?Ian:
Yeah. So I think the biggest thing that we've learned over the last couple of years, kind of getting this all set, because all the employees here know what we're doing, and they're, you know, they're aware of what's going on. They're totally, you know, whether it's through meetings or Zoom calls, they know what's happening and what the future holds, very transparently. But the one thing I say that's even still challenging, even as we speak, is the communication. The communication and the expectations of not only the client, but the builder, the architect, the interior designer. There's so many different personalities in a build, and you really need to be able to manage those personalities and that communication with your team members. And when I say team members, I'm talking about your industry partners. That's probably the most challenging part because they're all important, right? They all have a role in this, and we all talk to the client, and we're all heavily involved with the client personally, because it's a long time, man. I mean, these builds are 15, 18, 24 months. We've had builds that are, you know, started and it looks like they're never going to finish, right?Ron:
You're attached to these projects for a long time.Ian:
Long time. It's really important to not only do what you say you're gonna do and have that integrity piece, but to really be there and have that communication for all of those partners. Because the reality is none of those partners really know exactly what we do, right? They see bits and pieces of it, but they don't know the daily grind. They don't really know what it takes to make these systems happen. And so, and I don't ever expect them to know, you know, that's what we're here for. We're the trusted advisor for what we do, and it's a hard job. It's really hard, Ron, what we do. I think it's one of the hardest jobs that someone can have, because you need to know so much. And it is about relationships, and it is about service, and it is about operations, right? And usually not everybody is good at all those things. You know, people are usually good at some of those, but not all of those. So my goal here at Aspire is to figure out with our team, you know, when we have weekly meetings, it's like, what are we doing that could be done better, right? And every week we talk about this. Well, we did this and that was kind of, you know, it didn't really work out too well. Okay, well, what can we do instead? And how do you think we could do it better on the next job? And so, we're always, always refining and tuning the company.Ron:
That's a good takeaway for the audience, to hear that process it sounds like you go through, which is querying or discussing with your team, an analysis of what's gone down and how it could be improved. Has that always been part of your method or process?Ian:
No. No, no, no, no, no, no. No. I mean, when I had Front Row Entertainment, it was literally Scott and I. I was in a business partnership with Scott Sawyer with Front Row. And he's still in business today and we're still friends. You know, it was kind of like, not really a whole lot of feedback, and we were small. So, you know, there wasn't a whole lot we could do. But then when I opened up Encore in 2007, and we had employees, I was kind of making all the decisions, right? And just, you know, I was kind of spearheading everything, and not really doing a real good job as a business owner to empower people. And so, you know, I went on to work for Casaplex. I went on to work with Star. I was in charge at Star, kind of the whole kit and caboodle before Bravas. And, you know, working at Casaplex and seeing the larger organization and what they do there. And, you know, I learned a lot of great things with my time there with Derek Goldstein and Nelson, and just how they operate. And they operate much differently. Like, they do a lot of commercial work, so it's just a different environment. But I've learned a lot of things about communication and empowering people and hiring the right people to do their jobs. And you don't have to be that enforcer to just, like, constantly be in charge. And so, you know, I was very humbled when I sold my company, and I went to work for somebody else. You know, I had been in charge for 13 years, and I think it - Encore, you know - we won 12 CEDIA awards in 5 years. We were very successful, and it was very humbling to go, you know, work a 9 to 5. For me, it was, like, seven to seven, but very humbling.Ron:
After being the guy that was the, you know, the award winner, the guy walking across the stage, Integrator of the Year.Ian:
Yep. Yeah, we were Integrator of the Year. So, when I opened up this company, I kind of saw things with a new set of eyes, and I realized that in order for this to be successful in growth, like, really, you know, strong growth and good growth, that I don't need to be involved in every little thing. Like, I need to hire the right people. I need to empower people to make decisions on their own. And you know what? Maybe I can sit back and actually learn something.Ron:
That's genius. A lot of good takeaways there for the folks tuning in. I got a couple other topics I want to run by you. One is Ketra. You're opening a new Ketra showroom. Tell us about your vision for that and kind of the role, not only that lighting is playing in your vision for the business, but also the lighting demonstration space that you are, I guess, you have finished or you're close to finishing?Ian:
No, it's finished.Ron:
It's finished. All right, so fill us in. What's your vision there for lighting and specifically Ketra?Ian:
Yeah, so I didn't start this space when we moved in a year, year and a half ago. I wasn't thinking then that this was going to be a certified Ketra showroom. You know, but my focus was on some technology. And I really like our space. And when I first walked into this space, I said, I've got to have this. This is very unique. So when you walk in, it's all open. It's a completely open floor plan. There's only two offices. The rest of it is open. And what's cool is there's actually a natural kitchen that's open to the space with an island, with bar stools. So, it's very residential feel in a commercial building. So, you know, I thought, man, we could really work off of this, right? And my vision was, I'm not going to have a bunch of vignettes and rooms and different things. I'm just going to throw, you know, a lot of tech and a lot of horsepower in the one space. And I was fortunate that we have a 30 by 40 space. It's a fairly large room with a kitchen. And so, I created a family room. We built, you know, cabinets. I had people put in cabinets with a quartz countertop. We have our big logo. So, it's a very open space. It's a space for collaboration, for, you know, for our internal staff and also, you know, builders, architects, clients, you know, come in, and so, it's a great space, and we haven't fully utilized it yet because it's still new. I'm waiting for one component to get here, and that's the wire-free Palladiom shades, and then once we have that, we will do, you know, an intro party and have a big opening.Ron:
And that facility is in D.C. Or that facility is in Charleston?Ian:
No, it's in Washington. It's in Washington, because it's a bigger market. You know, a lot more money there. You know, Charleston is more of a second home area with Kiawah and IOP and Sullivan's Island. That said, once I went to the Lutron Experience Center...Ron:
Which one did you go to?Ian:
I went to the one downtown in D.C.Ron:
Okay. I've been to the one in New York. I've been to the one in Austin. Oh, actually, I've been to the Ketra facility in Austin. But I haven't been to the Lutron facility in D.C. before.Ian:
Yeah, it's more commercial, but then they made an area for residential. But we started to take some clients there, you know, because we're Lutron dealers. And, you know, we always talk about Ketra and circadian rhythm. And we talk about wellness and really things that, you know, people are looking for these days. A lot of healthy people out there. And so these are things that can help with their lives and their environment. So going there a couple times, I said, you know, if we're going to do this, let's do it right. Because you really have to experience it. It's, for me and my sales guys, it's been really tough to talk about Ketra and sell it verbally, without taking them downtown. And so every time we have a client, we've got to schedule with, you know, Lutron, and that's, you know, somewhat of a pain. You got to call, and usually they're a couple weeks out, you know. It's hard to park down there. Parking is expensive, and, you know, it's $25, $30 to, you know, go in a parking lot for two hours. It's in an office building on the fourth floor. It's just not ideal for me. It's just, it's tough. And so I said, you know what, let's just put it in our office, because if we're going to get into it and really go, and you've known me for a long time now, you know, we've known each other for 16 years now, I go full bore. You know, once I make a decision, I'm kind of all in. And so I will say that our Ketra showroom, I think, is far superior to the one in Washington. And the reason being is because we have other stuff. It's not just Lutron. I mean, yeah, we got Lutron shades all across the window. We have eight of them and then another set of Palladioms that will go in. So we got blackouts, Palladioms, we have James small apertures. We have invisibles. We have the Bowers for standing. We have the touch panel, Josh.ai. We have heating, we have temperature sensors, we have, you know, stuff where you walk in and occupancy sensors. So, you really get that full experience. So, yes, it does tell a story. We do go through the Ketra storyline, but there's a lot more storytelling than just lighting and shading, and we're able to display that in a very condensed, confined area where, you know, we don't need to go into different rooms and experience one thing at a time. They can say, hey Josh, I want to watch football, and boom - the lights go halfway, the Ketra sets in. You know, I’m a big Commanders fan, and I hope they go back to the Redskins someday.Ron:
I was about to say, is that what they call the Redskins?Ian:
Yeah, the Commanders. So when I hit football, when I ask Josh.ai to, you know, football, the TV turns on, it goes right to NFL Network, the Ketra lights go burgundy and gold. The lights go halfway up, the Palladioms go up, and now you hear the football game through our SA-853s from James Audio, which are probably the finest in-ceiling speaker I've heard.Ron:
Is that the 5-inch?Ian:
It's the 7-inch small aperture.Ron:
Oh my God, I've heard those at Sonance.Ian:
Yeah, they're impressive.Ron:
OMG, they are amazing.Ian:
OMG is right. They sound better than our Bowers & Wilkins.Ron:
Yeah, they sound....Ian:
Outstanding. Yeah, they're amazing.Ron:
I've tried to find a reason to put those in my house. I was like, where do I need to solve that problem?Ian:
I had them for my house and I ended up putting them in Washington instead. So those were my personal speakers that I wanted. And then I said, no, it's better off. Cause they're not cheap.Ron:
No, they're not cheap. All right. Right around the corner, we have CEDIA. CEDIA is next month. Are you going to go to CEDIA?Ian:
Absolutely.Ron:
Well, what's your goal for the show? Do you think it's going to be a good show?Ian:
Yeah. So a couple of things, right? I think it is going to be a great show. I think it's going to be better than last year. I think there's going to be more people, especially with the commercial side of it being with the residential. I think it's going to be really positive energy. I think, you know, it's going to be exciting. There's going to be some noise. And there's just going to be true excitement. Now, I'm a fan of Denver. I think it's the best venue that CEDIA has ever had in the last, you know, 20 years. And so I'm excited.Ron:
It’s my favorite city for CEDIA as well.Ian:
Hundred percent. And on top of it, my son lives there, so I get to go visit my son.Ron:
Oh, my God. You can't get better than that and spend time with him.Ian:
And my wife's going, so we're all going, and we're going out a little bit early. I'm going to go to Rocky National State Park. I've been several times, but my wife hasn't. So we're going to go up to, you know, up there and enjoy a couple days of hiking. But, to get back to CEDIA, I'm really excited. I've joined, now that I'm an owner, I've joined back on the CEDIA Manufacturer Awards, which I was involved in for five or six years with Marc Ontiveros.Ron:
You had to quit to give some other people a chance to start winning some hardware. But now you're back? Are you starting to enter again?Ian:
Yeah, I mean, I've let some people, other people, win some stuff for a little while, but next year, we will have probably three or four projects we'll enter. And so there'll be, you know, a home theater, but there'll also be some lighting, and we're working on a really cool project now that's all Ketra. It's gonna be pretty amazing. And it's a health and wellness environment, and there's a lot going on, so it's gonna be pretty, pretty wonderful. So I'm at the Manufacturer's Awards, you know, we have that on Thursday, and then we hand out, you know, discuss the finalist and the winner. So that's always exciting. I love it.Ron:
So you're on the committee of dealers selecting the Manufacturer Awards?Ian:
I'm one of the judges.Ron:
Oh, so everyone knows where to send that $20 bill in an envelope.Ian:
But that's for the manufacturers, not for the integrators. Not for the integrators, for the vendors. It's all the new gear that's coming out in 2024, or post-CEDIA that everybody's going to be able to get their hands on. There's also some Hall of Fame stuff there, which is normal. And those are all presented at the award show, which is exciting. That's Friday night. So I haven't made my decision whether I'm going there or not. I do fly out Saturday, but I'm excited, man. I'm excited to get back into it. I haven't been to CEDIA since 2018 when we won, there's two great theater awards with Casaplex that Encore did. So that was exciting. That was on the aircraft carrier at San Diego. You sat at our table!Ron:
I remember that! I bet you if I went through my phone, I would find pictures of that.Ian:
Absolutely. You pulled right up between me and Janet, and…Ron:
Yep.Ian:
I think we had a cocktail, and it was all from there, man.Ron:
Any of that new tech that you've audited that you're.....I won't say from your awards analysis or reviews of manufacturers, but is there any tech coming down the line? Bigger picture that's publicly known, at least today, that has you excited?Ian:
I mean, I'm not allowed to, you know, talk about the...Ron:
You know too much now to even answer that. You're like, I don't know what I'm supposed to know, or...Ian:
Well, I know I'm not supposed to say anything. And that's, it's all confidential, and it's something that I would never, you know, engage in.Ron:
I tried, audience. I tried. Right, I do, Ian knows stuff, and I try to get it out of him.Ian:
But, you know, to the audience, you know, down the pike, it's always interesting with stuff coming out, right?Ron:
I've heard this is a big year for new stuff. That's what I've heard. Yeah. That there was a lot of pent-up demand, a lot of manufacturers withheld their new stuff over the last three years because it wasn't maybe politically correct to talk about new things when they couldn't even ship the old things.Ian:
Correct.Ron:
And so I've heard a lot of the new stuff isn't necessarily even cooked up in the last 12 months.Ian:
Yeah, I think you're onto something there. That said, what I'm really into, and what I kind of want to get into these last couple of minutes, is I'm really into AI. I mean, I've been messing around with it for quite some time, and I just think there's a lot of benefits. It's a little scary. You know, there's that side of it. But for me personally, in my business, I use it all the time.Ron:
Well, let's talk about that side of it. So we, One Firefly, we've been advocates and actively sharing tools and tips that we've been running across doing research. We actually have a dedicated team. Rebecca and Ben, here on our team to name a few, have been actively reviewing and ultimately curating tools and releasing that. We've been doing that through a number of the buying groups, including HTSA, and releasing that stuff. And I am also participating in the AI conference, which is the pre-show, the pre-day. It's that Wednesday, I believe, before CEDIA. The press release went out on that a few weeks ago. So I'm right in the thick of it. One Firefly is right in the thick of it. I'm curious for you, day to day, you're using it daily. What are you using, and what are some of the applications you've run across?Ian:
Where do I start? I, too, will be in that Wednesday room, so...Ron:
Oh, that's awesome! So, you're gonna be in the room. That'll be cool.Ian:
I will be in the room, and I'm very excited about that. Yeah, I mean, ChatGPT, what can I say? It's incredible, and I think, you know, what I have found, anyway, is if you can hone in on your prompts, which is the information you tell, you know, ChatGPT, the more you get back, and the more you get out of it, and you can, as you know Ron, you can refine those prompts, and keep going, and getting deeper, and deeper, and deeper, and refined, and dialed in. So I've used it for a number of things. I've used it for job descriptions, I've used it for posts, I've used it for blogs, I've got one coming to you that's written right out of ChatGPT. Not to give anybody any ideas.Ron:
I've got opinions on that, but I'll keep going.Ian:
But what I do, here's what I do with ChatGPT. I have learned that the prompts are important, if you put more time and effort, some of my prompts are, I mean, it looks like an essay, I mean, they're long.Ron:
Yeah, you gotta put work in. Good input equals good output. Bad input equals bad output.Ian:
It's not a one or two sentence thing. You put one or two sentences in, it's like, oh, it's okay, but you really do have to put the work in. You really do have to hone in on, you know, that prompt and refining or regenerating your prompts. But yes, we use it all the time for multiple things. But what I do, okay, is I never send something straight from ChatGPT. I always convert it to me, and then myself or one of my staff members, we always critique it and change it and put our own spin on it. You know, the Aspire spin on it. So, because I can tell you, the way ChatGPT talks is not how Ian Williams talks.Ron:
ChatGPT doesn't have an opinion.Ian:
It doesn't.Ron:
Like, Ian Williams does have an opinion.Ian:
Yeah, ChatGPT is factual. It's just, it's no...there's no, like, reasoning or open for discussion. So, you know, I put our spin on it, so it sounds more human-like, which is like you said, and it's not so robotic. There's a lot of vocabulary in there that I don't use. I'm not an English major from Harvard, so I don't use some of those words. So, I have to be very careful about what I send out. I've created emails to builders and architects, and I've crafted a lot of things not only for our organization, but outside of our organization. And you have to be careful because you can't send something that's not authentic and that it's not you. You still have to make it you, and put your spin on it. Otherwise, it's just, it doesn't look right, it doesn't sound right.Ron:
Anybody listening...Ian, tell me if you've experienced this. I'm going to say anybody listening that spends time on LinkedIn has noticed by some miracle in the last six months, so many people in our network are suddenly Shakespearean authors drafting posts daily. When maybe previous to January 2023, we were lucky if they'd post once a month. And I read that content, and I want to puke. Because it's not them. It's not authentic, and it's just, they're filling the air with noise.Ian:
And you could see it as soon as you read the first line, and then you read the second line, and you're like, this wasn't written by X, or her, or him, or them. It was written by a robot, right? You know, what I say to that is, it's just, it's lazy.Ron:
Yes.Ian:
It's lazy. Use it. Take some things from it, retwist it, reword it as your own and you can use it. It's a great tool, but don't just copy, paste and send. Like that's, everybody can tell that it's not you.Ron:
And I think we knew that when you're writing a poem and you're trying to show off to the novice what ChatGPT is and you're trying to write a silly poem. You know, I do that often when I'm just showing off the basics. And I copy and paste those on occasion. But if you're actually trying to get a quality output, we're saying ChatGPT, that's one of a very, very large ocean of tools that are out there. And at that AI conference, we're going to talk about a lot of those tools out there, at least what exists today. And what's also just an interesting idea, and I'll say a version of this in September at that conference, is the AI you and I know today, and the AI you and I use today, is the worst form of AI that will ever exist. It's only getting better.Ian:
Yeah, I don't doubt that.Ron:
It's only getting more powerful.Ian:
1000x, 100x, I mean, every day, it's grabbing information and refining itself. And that's, so that, when I got back, you know, first when I said that's the scary part, that for me is the scary part. This is the dumbest version of AI. And six months, a year, two years. I mean, you know, I don't know. I honestly think, you know, when this happens, I don't know the next time I do a podcast whether it's really going to be me on this camera.Ron:
Well, people listening are going, what's he talking about? But if you, for example, if you take this podcast where I'm the host, well, I've got 250 of these shows that could be ingested into an AI engine, and it knows what I look like. So, I think my guest would be real, but I don't know that my guests know that I'm real, because I could be the AI rendition of Ron. It would sound like me, it would talk like me, it has the same patterns like me, and it sounds like science fiction. It's science right now.Ian:
It is right now, and it could get to the point where you and your audience that you're interviewing could both be computers. Neither one of us are real.Ron:
Yes.Ian:
Which is really scary. Now, if you think about that just in a simple podcast, think about real life and what can be done if it is in bad hands. Now, I'm sure somebody is using it right now, but we don't need to talk about that. I try to focus on the positive.Ron:
I wake up in the morning every day as an optimist, and what was it? Who is the...what do they call him? I'm trying to think of his name. Who's the...I'm embarrassing myself here live. Who's the Oracle of Omaha? What's that fella's name? Oh, the old guy. That famous money manager. Everyone listening is going….oh my God, Ron, it's this person. I see his face.Ian:
You're talking about, you're not talking about the real estate guy, Steve Peterson. Are you?Ron:
Well, real estate, Berkshire Hathaway. It's not Steve Peterson. No, not Steve. Come on. I mean, Berkshire Hathaway. Hathaway, help me out, people, anyone that knows who I'm talking about. Anyway, that fella, Berkshire Hathaway, is considered one of the greatest investors that's ever existed on planet Earth. And in July, at his shareholder meeting, he compared AI to the nuclear bomb and raised some questions about its use and/or misuse. And I think an alternate way to spin his reference to AI is, you know, you can take splitting the atom and you could build a nuclear bomb or much worse, or you could split the atom and you can create nuclear energy and provide power for millions of people. In other words, you can take the same technology and do good, and you can do evil. And so AI, in my mind, is in that category. There's going to be evil that's done, and there's going to be lots and lots of good that's done. And there's also going to be lots of changes in the workforce globally because of these technologies. And so I think, you know, kudos to you, Ian, for being on top of it and kind of getting your hands dirty and figuring it out because I think it affects, it's going to affect everyone. I mean, not to be too extremist or alarmist, it's going to affect everyone.Ian:
Yeah. And I feel that if, and I think this is some good advice, if you're not using it, at least get on and play with it. Because if you don't know it, the world is going to pass you by. It really is. I mean, I think this is bigger than the internet.Ron:
Yeah. Warren Buffett, someone on my team just chatted that in the notes. There it is. Warren Buffett. That's who I was referencing.Ian:
Oh, okay. Yeah.Ron:
Yeah, I agree. I try not to work weekends, this Saturday I did, I needed to get a proposal out. And a proposal that normally would have taken me reviewing a bunch of previous iterations or versions I've written for other clients and then refining it and massaging it and getting it out there. It's normally not too extreme for me to say that's a three to five hour process for me personally. I got it done this weekend in 45 minutes and I used ChatGPT and it helped me write a bunch of the language for different sections. I give it good prompts. I spent my time on my prompts, and the output was genius! And it was better language than I've ever written.Ian:
That's what I use it for. It's amazing. Like, if you use it right, it really is an amazing tool. It makes me so excited. I mean, my wife gives me a hard time because it's on my desktop, and I have an icon. I just click it. It's there. I use it daily.Ron:
It's in my browser. It's an open tab in my browser. I have a paid account. I pay $20 a month.Ian:
So do I. I'm on their pro account.Ron:
It's in my browser all day long, every day. That's awesome, Ian. Thank you so much for coming back on the show. This is Show 248. For those that want to get in touch with you directly, where do we send them?Ian:
I would send them to my email. That'sRon:
There you go. Oh, there you are. Oh, my God, dude, that looks awesome. And for those that are listening, I'm seeing a room with a wall of speakers and a wall of TVs and a wall of, it looks like, light bulbs or lamps. And so this is, this is the room you were referencing earlier in the conversation.Ian:
That's correct. This is our testing facility. This is not a showroom. This is just where we test projects and program them.Ron:
That's awesome. Thank you for sharing that. And, Ian, if you want to email that to my team, we'll get that dropped down into the show notes so when we post this to our web page, the folks can take a closer look at that.Ian:
Absolutely. I'll also send some photos in the front, too, for everybody.Ron:
That's awesome. I'm also going to just put your phone, your office line. I grabbed it off your website: 418-6700, for those folks that want to reach out to their office. Ian, thanks again, man. Appreciate you coming on the show.Ian:
Absolutely. Thanks, Ron.Ron:
All right, folks. There you have it. Show 248. Ian Williams, he's a wealth of knowledge and experience. It's always fun when he and I get a chance to catch up, and you got to watch us catch up here live in front of you all, so I appreciate that greatly. Right around the corner here, we have CEDIA, so if you're going to be at CEDIA, make sure to stop by One Firefly's booth. We also are doing manufacturer product training. It's a 90 minute window of training we're going to be doing in one of the training rooms, and that's going to be both Thursday and Friday. So check your CEDIA guide and you can get that exact room and that exact time frame. But definitely stop by and do that. And then, if you're tuning in from Europe, I, along with Josh Strzempko from my team, we're going to be heading over to London immediately after CEDIA for the EI Live show. So we're going to be in Stand….I want to say 154. Somehow I remember that, Stand 154. And we're also going to be doing some training over there as well. So definitely stop by. I was trying to think that training I know in London is going to be at the Technical Theater. So that's there at the convention center, and we'll be doing some training on both days, that is September 13th and 14th. I'm going to go ahead and put up on the screen here if you're going to check us out in terms of actually downloading or subscribing to this podcast, we'd love for you to do so. You can also feel free to drop a review into any of your preferred environments. I know I do a lot of my listening to the show on the Apple podcast. That is where many of our listeners come from and know that I appreciate you. We have lots of guests and shows coming up here in the very near future. And I will see you all next time. Thanks so much.SHOW NOTES:
Ian Williams has worked in the Custom Integration industry for 22 years. In 2007 he founded Encore Custom Audio Video.Since then they have won ten CEDIA awards, earned the Mark of Excellence Award, and were named Integrator of the Year at CES in Las Vegas in January of 2015.
In early 2017, Ian sold Encore to Casaplex. Over the next three years, Ian built strong teams, created processes, and helped maintain strong margins at Casaplex and Starr Systems.
Ian and his wife Janet moved to Charleston, SC in 2019 where they opened Aspire AVS in 2019 as a family owned and operated business. Ian opened a second location in his hometown of Washington, DC in 2020.
Ian & Janet have three boys and enjoy sunsets, playing with their four dogs, enjoying nature, and having dinner together as a family.
Be sure to check out Ian’s first appearance on Automation Unplugged back on show #94 recorded on January 8th, 2020.
Ron Callis is the CEO of One Firefly, LLC, a digital marketing agency based out of South Florida and creator of Automation Unplugged. Founded in 2007, One Firefly has quickly became the leading marketing firm specializing in the integrated technology and security space. The One Firefly team work hard to create innovative solutions to help Integrators boost their online presence, such as the elite website solution, Mercury Pro.