This week's episode of Automation Unplugged features a conversation with Brad Larkin, CEO and Co-Founder of Argenta.”

About this episode:

Brad graduated Summa Cum Laude from Utah State University with three bachelor's degrees in the field of business. He has owned many companies from a young age, but the technology field has always been his passion. Brad attributes Argenta’s rapid growth and success to the value the company places on hard work, integrity, and always focusing on long-term relationships with clients.

Brad co-founded Argenta with Justin Rollins and Will Alley in 2013 after 4 Home Control went bankrupt and they facilitated an asset purchase. In the beginning, it was grassroots with just the three owners running the entire company from a working showroom. Today, Argenta has grown to 21 employees and generates an annual revenue of $7 million. In 2021, the company was honored as ProSource Power Member of the Year.

In the webinar, we’ll cover:

• Extreme ownership in business and how Brad’s team lives by Jocko Willink’s leadership principles.
• Navigating economic shifts with rising tariffs, shifting budgets, and staying ahead of industry challenges.
• The power of peer collaboration and why networking with fellow integrators has been a game-changer for business growth.

SEE ALSO: AU #296: Beyond the Homepage: Romi Kiriadre’s Strategies for an Engaging and Effective Website

Transcript

Ron:

Hello there. Ron Callis with another episode of Automation Unplugged. I hope this recording, if you're watching the recording, is finding you very well. And , I hope you're having a great spring so far. 2025 has certainly been an interesting start to the year. I would call it a volatile start to the year in terms of business.

Ron:

Like there's really great things happening for a lot of our clients. And then some of our clients are having some real challenges. And , certainly a lot of the markets and equities and, and all sorts of, , I guess the broader economic climate that affects us and affects you, our listener. It's been a pretty wild, , beginning of the year.

Ron:

Maybe one of those bigger factors is tariffs on, tariffs off. And , I think everybody's head's just spinning in terms of what the president is going to do. I'm confident. And optimistic that things are going to stabilize or normalize as this year goes on. But , this is gonna be a great opportunity to have a conversation with one of our industry's leaders.

Ron:

, one of the best of the best, I would say very loved and respected integrators in our country. And , and that is the one and only Brad Larkin. He is the CEO and co-founder of Argenta. And they are just, , an awesome integration firm out of Sandy, Utah. And let me go ahead and bring in Brad and let's, , let's see how he's doing.

Ron:

And. And what he has to say, Brad, how are you, sir? Doing well. How are you doing, Ron? I'm doing good, man. It's here in Florida where I'm recording from. It's the beginning of, I don't know, allergy season, pollen season. And it seems like every gosh darn tree and bush and plant outside has opened up in the last week.

Ron:

So. My senses, my, all my bodily functions are like screaming at me. So I'm on allergy medicine. , so if I sneeze during this interview, I'm just giving you the reason or, or excuse right now. But , how, how are things out there in Utah?

Brad:

We're great. We're great.We unfortunately missed out on a lot of snow this year as anyone that unfortunately booked a vacation to Park City, , found out the hard way.

Brad:

So we've not been having a good snow year, but, . Hey, it keeps the vans on the road and makes traveling a little bit smoother. So we'll take it.

Ron:

Well, let's tell, let's get everybody introduced to you, Brad and your company. Tell us a little bit about your role there at Argenta and , what type of work do you guys do and where do you do that work?

Brad:

Yeah. So, , we're operating out of Sandy, Utah, which is about a 20 minute drive from downtown Salt Lake City. , we specialize in, , kind of the higher end custom integration side of things, primarily serving the park city market. But all of the Northern Utah Valley, , yeah, I've got a team of incredible people, 22 people or so.

Brad:

Yeah, we're lucky to be in one of the beautiful, most beautiful states there is. So where are you from? Are you from that area? , I grew up about an hour North of here in a town called Ogden, Utah. So, , not, not too far away.

Ron:

I think I drove through Ogden a year or two ago. We here at one firefly, we practice EOS traction and we had a quarterly meeting and we wanted to be with our leaders and we wanted to spice things up.

Ron:

So we did it in Jackson, Wyoming. And I want us to, so you tell me if this makes sense. I think I know we flew in with my family, we flew into Salt Lake and then we drove up and we drove over to Jackson. It was like a five or six hour drive. Would we have gone through Ogden?

Brad:

, yeah, you would have passed through there.

Brad:

, yeah, it's about, it's about five hours from the Salt Lake City airport. And unless you've got a private jet, that's the best way to get there.

Ron:

That is okay. So for your business, do you guys generally do projects right there in the park city metro market, or do you, do you travel around the country or do you follow your clients and will you do things in other places?

Brad:

, we do things all over. , most of what we're doing is. Going to be in the Park City market. There's a some up anyone that's been here knows of snow basin, which is what Ogden is known for, , since about a 20 minute drive to snow basin ski resort, which is a very famous one up there.

Brad:

That's where they do a bunch of the Olympic downhill and a bunch of great things that you'll be seeing in 10 years from now to get the Olympics coming back, which we're excited about. , but, , yeah, primarily that area is, is, is growing, the Park City area is growing, and then obviously being, in the Salt Lake City Valley, Utah is kind of unique in that, don't quote me on this, but there's like 80 percent of the population lives in a very small section on the northern end of Utah, so then there's just a bunch of desert in between here and St. George.

Ron:

Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it.

Brad:

But yeah, we, we, we have clients and we have projects that we're doing. , all across the country.

Ron:

And what's a normal project for you guys? Like what's a small project and what's, , an average project.

Brad:

, I would say because of our, , location, we've got a, our showroom is right on I 15. so we get a lot of walk in traffic, a lot of people that are just looking to we're kind of. known in the industry for being theater experts because that's kind of where we started. And in Utah, everybody's got a basement and everybody's got a house that's a little bit too big. So, , our small projects are generally going to be those one room theater remodels, , that are great ones for the schedule to fill in the cracks. So I would say on the small side , it's going to be in that 20 to 25, 000 range. , but we've also were, I would say a lot of our whole home projects are going to be in the 250 range. We're doing AV projects that are a million plus we've done single room theaters that are a million plus so kind of runs the gamut, but I would say the average is probably going to be around 100 and 150 if I averaged all those out.

Ron:

Okay, now I want to. Toot your horn because a lot of people don't toot their own horn. So I'm going to do it for you when I was doing, , when I say I, by I, I mean my team that was helping me research all about you and, and, and the business. Obviously we've had a business relationship for years, but you and I don't get to talk every day.

Ron:

, my team pulled up a pretty cool, , win or recognition for you guys. I'm going to share my screen, see if technology behaves here. And that was, I see back in 2021. That you guys were power level member of the year with ProSource. And I think that's pretty cool. It's pretty awesome. So for maybe those that have been living under a rock and don't know what ProSource is, if you could describe what that is for the audience and then maybe tell them how you garnered this status.

Brad:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. ProSource huge part of our business. Jim Pierce, shout out to him. He's really doing some amazing things with the program. , it's a buying group. Cause as most people know, there are several of them out there. , ProSource is the one that we chose to align ourselves with. , about five, six years ago, , we just kind of looked at all of them and which, , which groups we kind of identified both product wise and culturally. identified ProSource and are very fortunate that we've been involved with them. , they provide a ton of resources for us. A big part of what we do and a big part of why we've been successful.

Ron:

That's awesome. Take us back in time, Brad, help us understand your story. You have a super interesting founding story and like any entrepreneur, you've had ups and downs and everything in between over that journey. Take us back. Where'd you come from?

Brad:

, yes, I grew up in Ogden, , was a fortunate to have a very wonderful family growing up, , didn't have, , much of a electronics background, , but, , went to school at Utah State, , graduated from Utah State with a couple business degrees. I just kept going there until scholarship money ran out.

Brad:

So I've got a degree in business, entrepreneurship, finance, , and economics up there. But yeah, three degrees. So I finished the first one and still had some, still had some money coming in and I was making more money as a student, , on the scholarships than I was, , outside of that. So I figured let you're only a student once, so enjoy it.

Brad:

So I did, and, , I've really enjoyed I enjoy academics quite a bit. So I enjoyed that. , out of school I had a bunch of dreams about being an entrepreneur. I'd always been self employed. I paid for college running a landscape company that I started with my brothers when I was like seven years old and we drove around mowing lawns and doing things like that provided us with a great opportunity in college where we could hire that out and we could travel the world.

Brad:

So we would spend two, three months every smer, just backpacking around the world in different countries. , so some very unique experiences there.

Ron:

Wow.

Brad:

, then, , post college, unfortunately that was around 2008. So during college I met with a bunch of wonderful business owners as part of my entrepreneur degree.

Brad:

Everybody promised me a bunch of jobs and I felt like the sky was the limit. And then unfortunately everything crashed my last year there and everybody apologized. All the prop job promises that I've been given were taken back because nobody was hiring at the time. But it presented some great opportunities.

Brad:

So started a bunch of random small companies had a company that actually did website SEO work down in Arizona for a little while. Recognize that wasn't necessarily my cup of tea. I wanted some a little bit more hands on. And it was actually because I the company that I'd started. I've moved down to Arizona.

Brad:

And when I decided that wasn't really what I wanted to be doing, I drove back to Utah, happened to be driving through Las Vegas the week of CES. I'd never heard of CES, wasn't familiar with what it was. , but some friends of mine were there for the show and they said, Hey, why don't you, come on in?

Brad:

It's a good time. So went to CES and while we were at CES that's kind of, that's, was my introduction to the industry.

Ron:

What do you recall when you walked into CES for the first time? And you saw how many halls were filled with interesting tech.

Brad:

Yeah, it was, it was, it was interesting. it was, I was taken back by the magnitude of what is CES.

Brad:

as everybody knows, it also kind of coincides with the different festival or, or show that goes on at the same time that's quite the opposite. The show that shall

Ron:

not be named.

Brad:

Yeah, the show that shall not be named. So the combination of the two experiences of being born and raised in Utah was kind of a unique eye opening experience.

Brad:

But coming out of that especially as the other startup that I just barely left and was looking for new opportunities, it became apparent very quickly that This was a big thing and had a bunch of potential. , so that's kind of where the whole thing got started is, , me and a couple of guys just came back.

Brad:

We, I never thought that I would stay in the industry. We just kind of started doing home theaters on the side to fund our other ventures. Cause we could. install a 20, 000 home theater, make good money for being a 20 year old kid. , and then that was actually feeding the other things from an energy shock company to a few other things that I was doing.

Brad:

None of those really took off over the next three years. , but the AV side doing home theaters always kept paying the bills. So after about three years of pursuing other things. Finally, just ask myself the question, well, what if we just devoted all of our time to the thing that's been consistent? And so that's really where the start began as we stopped all the side ventures focused a hundred percent on AV.

Brad:

, and then in the next two years, we kind of maxed out what a two person crew could do. , we, what year was that

Ron:

approximately? What year would that,

Brad:

that would have been about 2010. , 2010, 2011 or so.

Ron:

Okay. And so coming out of the great, the worst of it was over the North American economy was just starting to come back.

Brad:

Yeah. Which had, which had given that, it was almost, kind of one of those stories where. Probably wouldn't if the timing at the time in 2008, it seemed like the worst situation possible. Once I was getting into the industry in 2010, 2011, a lot of integrators unfortunately had gone out of business, ,the, it just kind of left the cream of the crop that was still surviving that, , so the handful of companies that were still around.

Brad:

, we met with a few of them because we knew we kind of maxed out what we could do at our size without having a showroom and other resources. So, met with a company called Theater Extreme that was actually, one of the original chains, , of theater stores. They had, I don't think at their max, they had four or five locations on the West Coast, if I'm not mistaken.

Brad:

We partnered up with them for about six months, they hit record sales and we said, Hey, we feel like it was because of us. They disagreed. And so we parted ways with that venture. And that's when we came in touch with another company called for home control, which has a colorful history because that was one of the very first control for dealerships.

Brad:

in the world. , started backyard by one of their allowed to actually use t , as part of their bran was, yeah, you can't imag yeah, so big freeway sign for logo. , said for ho thought it was control fo call assing that they w And so that company we had run into at a home show, they had heard what we'd done with the previous company and said, Hey, me, maybe you can lend us a hand over here.

Brad:

So we stepped into that. And this goes into a really long story that I'll, I'll skip through. , but if anybody wants to buy me a beer sometime, I'm happy to walk them through the whole story. , but, , it could be an episode of, Real Housewives in Salt Lake City, because we got involved within two weeks, , I showed up to the office and the doors were literally chained shut, , no word, no notice, found out that the people that I thought had owned the company actually didn't own the company and it was actually a relative of theirs that was funding it.

Brad:

Really long, , really long story there, but, , they were shut it down once they decided once they had kind of figured out that the whole thing was kind of a scam. And so, , we had negotiated, we kind of hit crisis mode and we still, had people's money and projects to finish that were just kind of be SOL.

Brad:

We reached out to the, the money behind the whole thing and made them an offer and they couldn't refuse to essentially. Get them back some of their losses. They decided to invest in us, which I'm grateful they did. We were able to in turn, take care of all the customers that that entrusted them with their money, get those projects cleared out, get the assets for pennies on the dollar.

Brad:

And that was kind of the foundation story of what is now Argenta. So for home control went bankrupt. We bought all of their assets. , started Argenta. This was in 2013. And, , then we just been kind of growing ever since with a really great team, which I should before go on too much further. I got to give a shout out to my business partner that I couldn't do things without, , , equal owner, Justin Rollins, who runs our sales side, , who isn't with us today, , but a magnificent han.

Brad:

And, , couldn't, , Can't, couldn't be here without, , his help and his support.

Ron:

Now, I, I'm sharing for those that are listening to the audio, I, I just put on screen, , the website, , for Argenta and, , and of course, , the company page, which has Brad, who's here with us in the recording, and Justin, his, his business partner, and then a bunch of the, the faces of your Stellar team.

Ron:

Where, where did the name come from? Argenta.

Brad:

, we've actually hired a marketing company, , that did some market research and Argenta is Latin for silver. And so they'd come to us and said, Hey,, silver, it's not much of a thing in the industry now, but at the time, they talked about silver lace speaker wire and different things being a silver, being a really great conductor of sound.

Brad:

And then the market research showed that, , it was a name that are the clients identified as. high end and the branding that we were looking for. And so that's where the name came from. And no, , no criticism to any of the other wonderful companies out there, but it's really been a benefit because instead of just using a couple of letters as our, as our name, AV something or other, , it's, , it's been a benefit that the name Argenta seems to stand out in clients names, , over some of our competitors.

Ron:

Yeah. I mean, I'll, I'll weigh in with my two cents there. I love a company name that can mean anything you want it to mean through your messaging and your branding activities. Versus right now, I'm going to get tomatoes thrown at me or bad reviews on this, but you take like 10 words, AV control, home music, audio, you name it, put them in a hat, jble them together, pull them out.

Ron:

And you can name 90 percent of the industry if you pull them out in twos or threes.

Brad:

Yes. And side benefit of that, that we hadn't even anticipated. Starting your name with an A always gets you showing up first on dealer locators. So , when we were first starting out and we didn't have status with any of these, , vendors, we, they'd list all the people with status and we were always the next one on the list.

Brad:

So we kind of blended in there, , which was a side benefit we hadn't anticipated.

Ron:

So you're, I know you, so I'm just going to go there. You're a super fit guy. You lift weights, you're fit, you and I recently had a similar injury in the gym. , what, I'm curious, was your college scholarships tied to athletics?

Brad:

No, it was all academic. I always wanted to be, I always aspired to be, , athletic, but, at 5'7 and a stocky individual, it just didn't, other than wrestling, which is what I did in high school and a little bit in college. I never reached my dreams there since then. I, I got into CrossFit and CrossFit, , favors a stocky individual like myself.

Brad:

So I found some moderate success in that. , but yeah, I, at the time in college, I was just both my brothers are doctors, one's an orthopedic surgeon. , the other family practice, my sister is successful with a medical staffing company. , my family just has always pushed education and had that mentality that.

Brad:

You're only limited by the effort that you're willing to put in. So while I wasn't always the smartest one in the room, I was always willing to dedicate more time to compensate for that, to by doing research and studying and memorization, all those things. So, , through those abilities, I was able to have success there.

Ron:

Tell me about wrestling. I'm going to venture to say your average person listening has never wrestled. And I mean, like formal people, not like goofing around in the backyard, but like wrestled. I was a wrestler through middle school and high school and, , a little bit in college and my son wrestles and, , he's only gotten into it in the last couple of years.

Ron:

And I, so I, I love the sport. I'm curious for you, like, do you have, , what are your thoughts around what that particular sport did for you in terms of the, the person you are today?

Brad:

Yeah, I would say, and I only did it because my dad was quite successful in it, and I was trying to follow in his footsteps and make him proud.

Brad:

But the lessons that I learned from that, have an impact, I would say, on a daily effect, because, as when you're doing a sport like wrestling, where there's a very tight time frame, each, at least in high school, it was two minute rounds or whatever. And it was a hundred percent for two minutes and you would get 30 seconds in and feel like there's no way I got another 90 seconds or whatever left.

Brad:

, but you just had to focus on the next thing and the next thing. And the next thing you'd finish those two minutes, you'd rest for a few seconds, and then you'd start all over again. And that, , ability to focus when there's something that feels insurmountable, but focus. on just the next thing and the next thing after that to just never give up and keep going as something that benefited me.

Brad:

Then it benefits me in business. It benefited me in CrossFit because CrossFit is kind of a similar, you'll be hit with a workout that seems impossible on the surface. And if you focus on the entire 20, 30, 45 minute time domain, it would be, but if you can focus on just keep moving for the next. 30 seconds.

Brad:

And then 30 seconds after that, you can, you can always get through there. And that, that mentality, , has affected everything that I've done, , both in the office and out of the office

Ron:

and in CrossFit. Did you end up taking that to the level where you were competing?

Brad:

I, I sure tried. I was fortunate to, to kind of, when I moved back to Salt Lake City.

Brad:

, like any young entrepreneur, I didn't have much money. I called every gym, not just CrossFit, but any gym that was in the area asked if anybody needed audio equipment, , tv speakers, whatever, , happened to get a phone call back from Salt Lake City CrossFit. , they were about to move facilities and they said, Hey, we'd actually love speakers.

Brad:

So I traded them for a membership for some, for some speakers back in the day. , I think they probably anticipated me being there for a year or two, but I've milked that membership for everything. I could, , found some success and then became best friends with the owner, best friends with some really great athletes there.

Brad:

They had a great run where they were going, anyone that's familiar with CrossFit CrossFit games is the Superbowl of CrossFit and at the peak, , I was training with probably 15 individuals that all went to the CrossFit games year after year. And so I, I would, I would say at my best, I was on the B squad.

Brad:

If somebody was going to get hurt, I might've been able to step in, , but I was never quite to their level, but to aspire to be, but happy to be that close to the top. So actually, I actually hired a lot of great employees out of the gym because I'd see kids coming in at 5. AM grinding away. And it's how to, if you're that dedicated to dial in your nutrition and to work that hard, you'd be a great technician or something else.

Brad:

So for the first five years of the company, I'd say we probably averaged three to four employees at any given time that I'd found from the gym environment.

Ron:

Do you still practice that? Is that like a secret weapon? Like hiring from a CrossFit gym? That sounds brilliant.

Brad:

we, we get to this day, we still get comments.

Brad:

Almost on a weekly basis from clients or builders that meet the team and say, I had do you have to go to the gym to work for this company? ? , and , because we got a lot of big, strong boys. Yeah. , and some very wonderful, , talented athletic women too. So, , it, it's has been a big part of our company focusing on, , health and health and wellness is a big part of what we do, but having that ability to have people that work for you, that have that.

Brad:

Motivation to get up early and, day to day grind, , in and out, as well as the physical fitness on a technician level to be hanging TVs and working hard throughout the day and not getting tired and not going to, the gas station for lunch. , also has its financial benefits as well.

Ron:

So Brad, you and I have something else in common. , although I think you've taken it a lot further than I have. So I, I wanna, I wanna have fun with this one. And that is, , the book, , extreme ownership by Jocko Willink. And that I loved that book when I read it, there's a handful of books that I just love.

Ron:

And I was like, Oh my gosh, this is, I believe this, I practice this, I live this, like, I, I love this content. And I, I had my team, my leadership team actually read the book and I talked about it and so I talk about it a little bit less now. , you, and I'm going to share the screen so that people can kind of see what the book looks like.

Ron:

But this book is, this, this is an important book and set of beliefs in your life and in your business. Can you maybe expound on that?

Brad:

Yeah. I'm late to the game. This book's been popular for a long time. I discovered it probably five years ago. , when I was Googling, books that every person must read, and this was showed up in just about everybody's top 10.

Brad:

And, , as soon as I read it, the first time I just identified with every principle, I'm like, this is everything that I aspire to be as a leader and everything I want my team to aspire to be as far as an organization. And so quickly, , it became a mandatory read. So anybody that comes to work for us, we talk about it during the interview process, they're told that they're going to be required to read it within the first, , two to three months of their employment.

Brad:

Once they've read it, take them out to dinner. We sit down and talk about what it meant to them how to apply the principles. We have posters around the office reminding people of key principles, and it's something that has kind of given us a backbone and some dialogue to talk about routine problems that come up.

Brad:

Almost on a daily basis.

Ron:

Take us through some of those and I'll give you the, the, maybe the first one. I don't know if it's the first one top of mind, but there's one that I love, which is when something bad happens, something that's unexpected happens in your life. A lot of people's first reaction might be to complain or to be frustrated or to be upset.

Ron:

What is extreme ownership teach you to say?

Brad:

Extreme ownership preaches to respond to that by saying good on a lot. And if you haven't seen it, Google good. Jaco willing. There's a lot of videos out there on YouTube with pped up soundtracks blaring in the back and Jaco, overlaying his dialogue talking about the principle, but the principle is short is just that anything bad happens.

Brad:

There's always a positive. If sales are down, good. It means there's more time to work on my sales presentation. Yeah. No. techs are fighting the field. The response is good. This is an opportunity to identify ways that we can communicate and come closer together. , there's always an upside and it's it's very easy to be sucked into the negativity of those situations I lost a big job that I thought I had in the bag goods, there's there's going to be a Another opportunity maybe the the resources that I would have diverted to this project that I thought was so magical Can be better used and more profitable use somewhere else.

Brad:

So Having that mentality which I, I personally, I, I refer to the book as my Bible, , as part of our company, , Bible as well. It's a, it's something that I, we read every single year and every single year I identify new habits that either. Are striking me differently because of different obstacles or a different place.

Brad:

The company is or habits that I've identified that I've let go that I've gotten soft on that. I need to, buckle down on, , some other key principles that we talk about in the team is there's, some great chapters on no bad teams, only bad leaders. And that's one thing that we talked about with our project managers and other department heads.

Brad:

, that ultimately, and I tell this to people every time I do an interview that, you don't have to be the smartest person. We just got to be willing to work harder than everybody else. And, , if people with proper leadership, and I take this one extremely personal, because anytime I feel like the company is having a failure or having a setback.

Brad:

Instead of pointing the finger at, this department head or this person screwed up, or if only we had this employee or whatever, this book has really forced me to always look inward of what is my part, because if, as the,, as the CEO of the company. If there's any failures, what this book preaches is that that's because of me.

Brad:

, and, and they, not only that, but, on a client level, when people want to argue, or, when you have that confrontational phone call, ultimately all of the client is generally looking for is someone to take accountability. And they're so used to everybody on their project pointing fingers to the designer, the builder, the somebody else.

Brad:

But if you're always that guy that says, what? It's my fault. I could have spoken to the designer. I could have done something more proactively. This is why I'm accountable for the situation that we're in. It immediately diffuses that, , because that's so rare that I feel like it almost takes the wind out of the client sales.

Brad:

They're shocked by it. And what else are they going to say? It is your fault. You're right. It is my fault. I could have done something differently.

Ron:

The book talks about decentralized command. How do you practice that in your business?

Brad:

Yeah, that's that's one that's been and this is why I reread Because when we first started doing it and the company was 10 people and now that we're approaching 2025 , the team's bigger than ever.

Brad:

Communication becomes exponentially more difficult. And so, applying this principle of decentralizing commands, empowering people at different levels in the, in the company, you just, that's, it's crucial. , you can't operate at a larger size without doing that. And so, and that's also been kind of one of our cultural struggles as well because As a smaller company, we prided ourselves that everybody was in the room together all the time.

Brad:

We'd have big company meetings on a regular basis. , one of our favorite meetings, I call it beers with the boss. Being in Utah, we bring root beer and we bring beer, but it's at the end of the, it's the end of a work, a work week. Everybody would get together. , we talk about what went well, what didn't.

Brad:

, but as we get larger, we've really had to separate, so, as we have technicians and the book talks about how you want to always have, , teams, no larger than five, I believe is what it's, it talks about in there. So we try to divide

Ron:

the structure, the model of a sealed team.

Brad:

Yep. , and then as soon as it gets bigger, there's.

Brad:

depleted efficiency after that. And so we try to look at every group in the company and make sure that nothing is larger than five, that no one, , is in charge of a team large, larger than five. And then that person reports to someone else and so far and so, so, so forth. So, , that decentralized command as we continue to grow is only going to be a bigger factor.

Brad:

Of the, what we do and how we operate.

Ron:

I'm curious, do some elements or some of the themes around extreme ownership do, I'm assing they have to make their way into the way that you hire or the way that you are looking at the right people that are ultimately not going to be just a, a skill fit and a salary fit, but a culture fit because you, what you've described to me as a very clearly defined company culture.

Ron:

How do you, how do you implement that, , into your hiring process with, with folks?

Brad:

Yeah. I, in every interview, I bring up these principles,, I asked them to talk about, opportunities they've had to express ownership of things and it's. It becomes apparent very quickly when you have somebody talking about challenges that they faced in the past, how they're going to reference those challenges.

Brad:

It's unavoidable that they're either going to say, well, the reason it didn't work out on my last job was because I had a bad project manager or whatever. And you can quickly, and if you can point out to that individual, was it a bad project manager or is there something you could have done? No, it was, it was all them.

Brad:

There's nothing more I could have done. Okay. not that that individual doesn't have hope, but they certainly it's a red flag that it's something that you need to consider versus those types of people that, may have been let go from a previous company, but say, what, this is what I did.

Brad:

I shouldn't have done that. This is what I've learned become of it because of it. They're taking ownership. it takes a big person to admit that, especially in an interview where they're trying to look good. And those are the type of people that we want. , I tell my team all the time that, nobody's in trouble if you're taking all the responsibility that you can of every situation.

Brad:

We had a great example of this. We have a wonderful technician. His name's Tyson. I made a mistake on a shade install called me. I was happened to be on vacation at the time, said, this is what happened. This is why it was my fault. This is what I could have done differently. This is what I put in place to resolve the issue.

Brad:

I've talked to the builder, I've talked to this, I fixed it, but it was important to me to let that this mistake happened and I told him, I was like, then no, and he was afraid to be some sort of reprimand and I was like. Nope, you nailed it. That's all I could have asked. So you're probably not going to make that mistake again.

Brad:

Nope, absolutely not. Great. Let's all move on. Nobody's in trouble. Let's and I think that was like one o'clock in the afternoon. And I was like, do not let this get in your head the rest of the day. Go be excellent. Go be efficient. Go get the rest of the job done. Called me out at the end of the day and he said, that was such a great experience because I was a thought I was going to be.

Brad:

It was going to derail my entire day and instead I felt empowered and motivated and trusted. Thank you for doing that. And those types of little moments with your staff to show trust in them. It only makes them more loyal, work harder in the future and makes them not, not afraid to make state, to make mistakes or take risks, which I want them to do.

Ron:

I can imagine any manager that's listening to this interview and hears you describe the way that was it Tyler? Tyson Tyson that Tyson just communicated to you. I can't imagine anyone that manages people that would not be over the moon. If their people would call them, admit the mistake, talk about the solution, talk about the, , the, the fact that they've learned their lesson and they're going to move forward.

Ron:

Like that's, that's the dream member of your team. I don't care whether it's you doing it to them or them doing it to you. Like that's. That's excellence.

Brad:

Yeah, that's that's that's one thing. We have a wall That, I got the idea for some other great integrators But we have a our employee wall that's got a picture of everybody with their families And a big part of our sales process is As we're meeting with the client in the showroom and we get towards the end and inevitably, kind of address Did we know they're looking at different companies or whatever?

Brad:

We make sure to drive a point home that anyone that tells you they're the only ones that can get a specific product like that is not the type of company you want to go with because nowadays in our current situation in our industry, anybody can get just about anything. And we tell them that we're like, so your decision should be may be made on what other people don't have.

Brad:

And really, the only thing we can claim to have that nobody else can claim to have is all the people on this wall. And we talked about the individuals that are part of our company and how, they, one of the best compliments that we get on a very regular basis from clients after the fact is. They, all the subcontractors that are working in their home are guys.

Brad:

They actually enjoy having around, they enjoy communicating with them. They're clean, they're respectful. And that's a really hard message to get people to understand when they're seeing your proposal, maybe 10 percent higher than somebody else's, but that's what they're buying. They're buying the fact that I, we have dedicated a lot of time and a lot of resources to create better people that are going to be spending a lot of time in their homes.

Ron:

And there's so much wisdom in that folks that are listening, right? That went down. That's that's awesome. Awesome delivery, Brad. I want to pivot here to 2025, the economy, the outlook where we're right now. , This show is going to be, , , presented here at the end of March and, , we're right in the middle of this tariff wars that are going on, , with Mexico, with Canada, with Europe, with China.

Ron:

And it's causing, I don't know the way, any other way to say it's causing havoc with markets and with, , I can only imagine with you, like, what, what are you experiencing? What are your vendors experiencing? What's the, what's the story right now?

Brad:

Yeah. Yeah. Just like all the other integrators where we started receiving emails.

Brad:

About month and a half, two months ago announcing price increases. Nobody likes to see that and it was one after the next after the next, , which, , again, is a challenge, but also presents an opportunity back to that good principle. It allows allowed us to actively reach out to our clients and our builders notify them.

Brad:

This is the state. Of the AV market. This is what we're heading into. These are things that we need to plan and prepare for. , we put together a really nice email thanks to one fireflies assistance that we sent out to all of our customers, educating them on what the tariffs are about and encouraging those that may be on the fence for a project to.

Brad:

Reach out sooner than later. , and also to kind of provide a warning to our clients that if they are currently engaged in a project with us that we're doing everything we can to mitigate the effects on their project. And if they have concerns, please reach out to us, which instead of getting angry phone calls about price increases, clients reach out and say, thank you for looking ahead, letting me know that's coming.

Brad:

What can we do about it? We talk about options. So , it's,, as much as I hate to see costs going up, , there are some opportunities to show that we're more proactive than some of their other, , subcontractors they may be working with.

Ron:

There's an important lesson here though. What I did not hear you say is my prices are going up and I'm going to eat it because I don't want to pass that onto my client.

Ron:

That could be potentially dangerous to your business. No.

Brad:

Yeah, absolutely. 100%. We, want to avoid that at all costs. And there's really no reason to have to do that. If you've been proactive, that's, that's a reactive approach. If you're going to get hit with those prices. Because all the clients that we've reached out to, and, you know, we discuss options, Hey, you closed on a job, but you know, on some of the, project working on right now is over a million dollars in lighting and AV.

Brad:

We can have that conversation about what makes sense to bring in now. Do they want to arrange for a storage facility? Do they want to talk about storage fees? You know, but they're also getting product that may be outdated by the time they actually need it. So we're able to talk through all of those conversations and then set a clear expectation based on their.

Brad:

their input. Okay. Then you understand what's happening. So when your house gets ready for trim and a year and a half from now, there's going to be a change order. That's going to be sent to tell you what all the new pricing is. And this is nothing new. The pandemic was practice for all of this. This is, you know, this is lightweight compared to, , what we were dealing with with the pandemic.

Brad:

And so I feel like our team has already experienced with, and we've learned a lot of lessons from what not to do. And how to communicate with clients about price increases. So, and it also presents opportunities, you know, on a, on a buying level, this presents the chance to stock up on inventory. That's going to be worth more in a month from now.

Brad:

, so, you know, there's, there's always some opportunity there.

Ron:

When you look out to the balance of 25, , are you, are you, what are your beliefs about how things, how our industry, the custom integration industry is going to fare?

Brad:

, yeah, I think we're always going to continue to fare really well, especially in the higher end market, you know, people are never going to want to do these things themselves, no matter how easy installation or other things might be on the larger scale.

Brad:

It's just not feasible. Clients don't have time for it. So, , the industry is strong in that regard. I'd say the biggest obstacles that were at least in Utah that we're facing right now. Yeah. Is the fact that when the middle market crashed with interest rates and things, a lot of the filler jobs disappeared because those people weren't looking at doing those projects.

Brad:

They were on a tighter budget. The luxury clients had all the money that, you know, they were still cutting checks for homes and whatnot. But the problem we ran into was on our, you know, we pride ourselves and one of the big parts of our business is we really focus on working with targeting builders, interior designers, architects on that level.

Brad:

That's where most of our projects come from. And so as we've been working with them, you know, their challenges are our challenges. That's just the reality of the situation. Whatever their reality is, our reality is if they can't land that next build and we don't get the opportunity to land that next build.

Brad:

And the feedback that we were getting from them was as the middle market was was going on existing in the Salt Lake Valley. Well, all of those home builders had to go somewhere, and so they all rebranded as luxury home builders, and they all want to build in Park City in these luxury neighborhoods. But at the end of the day, they didn't know, they don't know what the cost of permitting and snow removal and all of these other, you know, complications are, as well as building homes at the scale.

Brad:

And unfortunately, a lot of the clients that we're dealing with are shopping from their home on the East Coast, , and so they're not really familiar with who they're talking to. And so they reach out to a bunch of different home builders and it's really tempting when they get that bid from that guy that they don't know isn't qualified to do their project, to believe that he can build that 10 million home for 6 million.

Brad:

And so our builders on the luxury side, we're getting beat up really bad because they just were, they were being told, as we've all been told, you're just too expensive, you're too expensive. And so they were coming to us saying, you guys got to find lower cost solutions. Because, you know, having a 500, 000 AV budget is just not, you know, it's not helping me win this job, especially when it's not necessarily increasing the home value.

Brad:

So we've had to really look twice on, you know, before we always prided ourselves on going straight to the solution that the homeowner wanted. You know, hey, this is what you're going to want. And this is why your budget needs to be x, y, and z. , now we've had to take a different approach for our builders of saying, okay, this will get the job done.

Brad:

So yeah, it should be 150, but you could do something for 30 or 40. , and at least that, and we make sure that it's not a bait and switch, that it would actually work. And then once the builder gets that price and once they lock in the build and once we actually start building a relationship with the client, it's just, it's made the whole process so much slower, which I think all the integrators out there will appreciate that just the sales process has gotten longer because now we have to come in and say, okay, yes, this 30 or 50, 000 solution will work, but let me educate you On why some other solutions may be better.

Brad:

And that's just the nature of what our builders have asked us to do. And as we've kind of resisted that, , more than we should have, , we felt that we felt the pain last year. And so one of the things I just had a meeting last week, we went with one of our builders and just had a heart to heart with them and said, look, we are, you know, you're going to build 50 homes.

Brad:

You are our client. What do you need from us and how can we tailor that specifically to you? And got some really great feedback on what they wanted, how they wanted our process to work, which in turn, you know, I hope will bear some fruits going forward.

Ron:

I'm curious when you've had to downsize or downgrade, I know that could be a dirty word, the, the systems to accommodate the needs of your builders.

Ron:

Have there been any, you know, in the theme of, of Jocko, have there been any good Outcomes of that where you've really had some epiphanies around solutions that actually are pretty cool and, and a value, even if they're, they're downsized or are there any other silver linings to the fact that you've had to pivot in this way?

Brad:

, I, I think the silver lining is. , the, the strength and the relationships with the builders and the architects seeing our willingness to be more flexible and provide what they're asking for, , without going below a line that's going to compromise because that's really what is going to, you know, when people hear that.

Brad:

The temptation to a company that maybe is less experienced is to go too far below that line because you're being told, you know, you know, it should be a hundred, but you're coming in at 20 when you know, it really should be 30. And you've got to know where be be strong enough to hold that line to tell your builder.

Brad:

I know you want it 20 but it has to be 30. And this is why I cannot go below that nber because this client's never going to be happy. It's going to be a headache for everybody moving forward. So that's and and gaining their trust. That's a big part about that is gaining their trust that look, you got to trust me that just has that cannot go below this.

Brad:

But it is as far as on a product side, it only reinforces that there's a reason we have the products that we sell, , because it is a disservice to to use some of these products in the magnitude and the luxury level that these homes are going to. But for the most part, you know, we're dealing with very wonderful, well educated people that once you can present that argent of what makes one access point better than another, they will come to that conclusion.

Brad:

But, , the, the challenge that we faced, and I, I would say most companies listening to this are going to, , going to Is going to resonate with them is that salespeople have to work harder than ever. , they've really been spoiled to agree over the last couple of years of just work on their plate all the time.

Brad:

It didn't really have to try. , it was just how fast you could work and now you gotta be more clever. You gotta, you gotta educate more slowly. You can't come across as too intimidating. So those sales skills have really had to be honed going into this market.

Ron:

Yeah, that's, that's. Fascinating. I always tell my team selling is a verb and it requires you to practice, you know, best practices, good discovery, thorough patience, thorough understanding before you go out there.

Ron:

And it makes sense that in this. Time of, you know, COVID where there was just so much money sloshing around the system. So much renovation happening in homes. I could see how some salespeople got lazy during that time. That seems, that seems super illogical.

Brad:

I will, I will, I will veer away from calling them lazy, but I will say, because I know, you know, my partner, Justin, he was his work.

Brad:

He's working harder than ever and he worked harder than ever through the pandemic. , it's just caused them to have a very quick shift in what that sales process looks like, how they're communicating, and how you're educating the client, because before we had the ability to just say, this is what you want to do, trust me, and now you've got to educate, educate, educate, so.

Ron:

Yeah, no, that, that makes a lot of sense. Okay. So to, to round out, , our time together here, I'm looking at the clock and I've only got you for a handful more minutes and maybe these, this pivot that you've had to do around. Builders is, is, you know, going to tie this, these ideas together, but something that I know that you've participated in Brad for a while is this idea of really collaborating with your peers.

Ron:

So not just feeling like you're out there on an Island, having to feel it, figure this out with you and your business partner exclusively, but, but you guys have also been networking with integrators and you do that through ProSource and you also do that through this group called the collective. Can you just kind of talk about maybe your.

Ron:

Your evolution of thinking and kind of lean, you know, learning to lean in and, and work with others, people similar to you, maybe in different markets. So they're not your competitors down the street, but they're, they're people out there fighting the same battles that you're fighting. And, , and I, I know, because I've talked to you many times, like you value that council greatly.

Brad:

Oh yeah. It's, it's immeasurable. The impact that. Those relationships have had on our company and where we are today. And everyone in this industry that starts an AB company kind of goes through the same evolution where you show up to see the, it's overwhelming. You probably don't talk to many people other than the vendors.

Brad:

, and then eventually, you know, maybe you go into a buying group and it's kind of a similar experience, just a little bit smaller level. So many people don't really, you know, create a lot of one on one opportunities. , But that my advice to anybody out there that goes to those and doesn't make a new friend every time is that you just your business, you owe it to your business, you're spending money, your time to be there that time, both when people are lecturing and when you're just, you know, grabbing a coffee, you need to be talking to everybody around you all of the time, because those relationships that you form there are priceless because it's just Yeah, I, I had some incredible moments, you know, when I kind of how I got brought into the collective the first times I made one of my best friends out there, , Mark Fisher with origin.

Brad:

Great guy. He's probably, he's a friend of a lot of people that are probably listening to this, , but it was nice enough to bring us, , on a, on a trip to Cabo with a bunch of great integrators and a moment that stood out to me was a. You know, one of the mornings I woke up, I did my gym thing. There was one other guy at the bar.

Brad:

, his name was Craig Curran, who is no longer with us, but a wonderful han. I saw me and I was like, Hey, you're the only one up. You want to come grab breakfast? And I had no idea who he was and know that he owned a big company in California, sat down at breakfast. And the next thing, you know, I was realizing who he was, the size of his company at the time we were, you know, seven, eight people, he had a hundred.

Brad:

And the amount that, you know, the, the insight that I gained over that little breakfast that You know, probably didn't mean a whole lot to him to me was game changing. , and then that kind of a spread out from there as I made new friends as I became a member of the collective and those, those individuals, they, you just cannot afford to talk to other people because every challenge that we face, whether it's You know, creating a new process or procedure and reaching out to other individuals.

Brad:

We are custom, but we're really not. And everybody in our industry is reinventing the wheel over and over again. And that's a very costly process. So if you can make good friends that you trust to have successful businesses and say, how have you overcome this obstacle? I don't know how many times, you know, that has been the biggest shortcut I have ever taken because a process that Maybe took them six months with more with a larger team than I have and more resources than I have.

Brad:

They were able to pass along to me and I was able to implement my business in a matter of weeks. , so that that involvement in the collective and pro source and just Anybody that I meet at conferences, at the bar, having breakfasts, , at the gym, doesn't matter. Talk to everybody because you never know who you're going to meet and what insight they may be able to help you out with.

Ron:

Part of that process, Brad, though, is being open to receiving input and counsel. And I'm going to challenge, not everyone is ready to do that. Were you always of that mind or was this something that you learned along the way?

Brad:

No, I kind of bring it full circle. One of the chapters in extreme ownership is check your ego.

Brad:

, that's one of the principles in that book. And I think it's really important because especially, you know, as you, as we started to get bigger, as we were starting to get, you know, 15 people hitting 5 million in sales, whatever. You start to feel like you're doing pretty good and you've got things figured out and then you'll meet somebody and you may instantly judge them by who knows what.

Brad:

But if you are just open to checking your ego that even that guy that, you know, maybe is a two man outfit doing a million dollars a year, maybe he's found a solution that you're not aware of. So there's no room for judgment in those conversations because Bigger, small ideas are coming from everywhere.

Brad:

And that guy that may be smaller than you today may be bigger than you in the future. So make friends with them, , find out what he knows. , she, you know, that's been a big part that's helped our company, you know, during the pandemic and others when there's product shortages, if you're the guy that's friendly and polite to the vendors and not the one treating them, like you feel maybe your clients treat you demanding certain treatments.

Brad:

, but if you're looking at those vendor relationships as partnerships instead, the, the kindness that comes back to you tenfold is, is, is huge. My, my company during the pandemic, we'd have opportunities where name tags would fall off of product at distribution and happened to find our name on it. Well, why?

Brad:

Because I'm buying the guy's steaks every Christmas and I know his family, right? So you know, that's, that's the other big input I would give to anybody newer that's not taking advantage of that. is you can't afford to not be nice to people. And when you're nice to people and when you have friends at these shows, everything is better.

Brad:

You enjoy yourself. , you're surrounded by friends everywhere you go. , you're only doing yourself a disservice financially and emotionally by not being nice to people.

Ron:

Amen. I'm going to wrap it there. I think that's a perfect point to end the interview on Brad. Thank you for coming on automation unplugged.

Ron:

That was probably one of the more dense, if not the densest, , episodes with advice and wisdom that I've recorded. And, and that's saying a lot of, I've interviewed a lot of folks, Brad, over many years. So, , I just want to say, thank you. That was awesome.

Brad:

Yeah. Well, thank you very much. And big shout out to the whole One Firefly team.

Brad:

I work with Kat and Hillary over there on a regular basis. You know, wonderful people over there that we enjoy that are a big part of our business. So thanks for having me.

Ron:

No, you're welcome. Folks that want to get in touch with you directly. Can we share some contact information?

Brad:

Yeah, absolutely.

Ron:

All right.

Ron:

So, , let's go with your website. , why don't you, you talk us through what, what's the website domain for the people listening, those that are watching, they see it on the screen.

Brad:

Argenta now. com. , then my emails, Brad at Argenta now. So anyone that wants to reach out to either of those, , our phone nber 801 996 3146 is our office line.

Brad:

, feel free to call or text that nber. If you want any advice, I'm always happy to talk to, , to anybody out there that may be listening.

Ron:

Awesome. And then one more, a social handle you provided us.

Brad:

Oh, yeah. Our Instagram is at our agenda. Automation

Ron:

agenda automation. Well, Brad, that's going to wrap it up, my man.

Ron:

Thank you so much for joining me here on automation unplugged, man. It was a pleasure to have you on

Brad:

my pleasure. Thank you so much.

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Ron Callis is the CEO of One Firefly, LLC, a digital marketing agency based out of South Florida and creator of Automation Unplugged. Founded in 2007, One Firefly has quickly became the leading marketing firm specializing in the integrated technology and security space. The One Firefly team work hard to create innovative solutions to help Integrators boost their online presence, such as the elite website solution, Mercury Pro.

Resources and links from the interview:

• Brad Larkin LinkedIn profile
• Argenta Home Theaters Facebook page
• Argenta Home Theaters Contact Page

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