This week's episode of Automation Unplugged our returning guest today is David Frangioni — founder of Frangioni Media, CEO of Modern Drummer Magazine

About this episode:

With a career spanning over four decades, David has worked with some of the biggest names in music, including Aerosmith, Ozzy Osbourne, Elton John, Ringo Starr, and Shakira. He’s earned dozens of gold and platinum albums, built iconic studios, and pioneered integration projects for clients around the globe.

David’s also an entrepreneur and educator, leading multiple ventures including the Frangioni Foundation and All Access IDA. He’s deeply involved in immersive audio, Atmos mixing, blockchain, and the evolving impact of AI on music and media.

In this episode, David and I discussed:

• His journey from drummer and studio builder to integration business owner.
• His role transforming Modern Drummer Magazine for a digital-first world.
• And how AI, immersive sound, and blockchain are reshaping media.

SEE ALSO: #317: From DIY to Delegation- When It’s Time to Bring in a Marketing Team

Transcript

Ron:

Hello. Hello there. Ron Callis with another episode of Automation Unplugged. I'm happy to be here with all of you. Maybe you're watching on Wednesday the day we release new shows, or maybe you are, , listening or maybe you're watching at, , another time. I appreciate you tuning in. Got another great guest and today it's actually, , a returning guest. And, , I've known this, this person, , for , well over 20 years, probably close to 25 years at this point. And, , he is, he is a, a legend in hub himself, , in, in many regards. So, yes, he participates and has been a, a big player in the world of custom electronics and automation. But, , this person has many different facets to their abilities and skillsets and, , I I'm excited to bring him back on the show. So today, , I'm excited to present you with David Frangioni. David is the CEO of Modern Drummer Magazine. So any of our, um, musicians out there, I'm sure you know that publication, I, I believe David will tell us more, but I believe it's the biggest publication, , for drumming and music in the world. And, , Frangioni Media, another one of his businesses and All Access, IDA. So, , David is, , , I don't know what, what do you, what do you call a man of many, many talents in many facets. Um. You're about to meet him and you'll learn for yourself. So let's go ahead and bring David in and, , get the interview started. David, my friend, how are you sir?

David:

Great to see you, Ron. Great to see. I'm doing well. Thank you.

Ron:

Awesome. Where all right, I'm looking at the room you're in, David, and there's a knight over your right shoulder and there's, , a castle like. Heading over this window. , where are you at?

David:

I'm at a rockstar close friend, collaborator of Mine's home and we are working together today. And it was scheduled after you and I scheduled our time? Yeah. And he, he couldn't move the time and day because of his schedule and I didn't wanna move our podcast 'cause we were planning on this for a few weeks. So, um. Squeezing it into, , in between this collab. So as soon as we finish, I'm onto another collab, , here at, at the Knight in Shining Armor's Castle.

Ron:

I, it, it, it's one of the more, , , fun backgrounds for an episode of our podcast. So for our listeners. That are maybe on your morning walk or your morning drive to a job site. You'll have to check out the video and, and check out the, the scenery behind David. It

David:

kind of tells it all right. Another day in the life of David Frangioni, it's, oh, all these environments are so unique every day and so unpredictable. Really.

Ron:

I, I, I, I mean I've, I've been, , I've known you David for many years now. I've been friends with you for many years. I'm happy to say that. , and you, I follow you on social media 'cause it's the only way to keep up. You are somewhere in this world, on planet Earth in any given week. So, , maybe just give a, a big picture. How would you describe, if someone says, David, what do you do? What, how do you answer that?

David:

Yeah, it's a hard one to answer. No, it's a tough one to answer because there's a, you know, a multiple of answers that would all be accurate. Lemme just say, first and foremost, I'm just blessed to do what I do and have done it for so long. Everything I do, I'm passionate about. Everything I do, I do it because I love it and it's important to me and I want to contribute at the highest level. And so that's why I think. In a simple description, it's really hard to, , encapsulate because it's the, all of the things that I do would not typically be one person, , you know, drummer, musician, producer, engineer. Studio builder, designer, you know, all the way through acoustic isolation, et cetera. Um, you know, that entire lane, home theater, home automation, artist development, record label. You know, there's just so many different aspects to it, but they're all things that I love to do, and they all fit together through my passion and through my vision of how I want to contribute in those lanes. Then that's, that's how it all converges.

Ron:

Maybe we could start with describing. Um, how I, here I'm quieting my phone, , how you and I first met. So we first met in the early two thousands because you were the owner and founder of a integration business called Audio One. And yeah,

David:

we were out for about 30 years. I sold it in 2018. Um, and , it was very successful.

Ron:

And you worked on just so many spectacular projects all over the country. I, I know World because it all over the world. In the very beginning, I was your, I was your Lutron rep That, and then I was your Crestron rep's. Right. And then we worked together at Firefly Design Group, which was my, my design and engineering business that I had launched. And, and we lived in the same

David:

neighborhood.

Ron:

We lived in Hollywood, Florida. We were neighbors. , your house was bigger than mine, but, , we, we, yes, we were neighbors. Um, yeah. You had better

David:

barbecues though.

Ron:

I did have I I did. I do love the grill. That's so, so true. Um, so maybe just if you could describe what your, your integration journey was, all the way from, you know, what did that look like to, to launch and build that business? Because you, you came about integration even. I would say sideways. That became, to my knowledge, because of your studio work and then you were able to ultimately have an exit, which so many entrepreneurs, you know, dream of having the opportunity to have an exit.

David:

Yeah.

Ron:

So can you maybe just fill us in for the audience? I'm still in it.

David:

I'll take you on the journey. I mean, it's important to say I'm still very much into integration and, and home theater installation and that passion 'cause that passion never leaves. Yeah, the company changed because as you said, I exited Audio one. Audio one had just gotten, you know, I don't look, it's all relevant. Um, for me it had just gotten too big for too long where I was spending so much time running the company that. The things I really loved to do besides the business side of it were absent, and so it really only made sense to sell it to someone that they really loved what that company looked like at that point. What it looked like to run every day was very, it was a very different balance of responsibilities from when we were a little smaller. To when we got much bigger. So I, I really enjoy where I am today, which is I'm kind of controlling the narrative where I take the projects that I want to take and I work on just enough projects that they, that I can get from them. What I like to give the most of, which is really, really successful results, hands-on close understanding of what the needs of the client and the project are. And none of that is lost in the enormity of. Of all of the business mechanics that are required as your company grows. So that's where we are today. But to answer your question and go back to the beginning, you know, I started as a musician, have always been, always will be. And I got into, , the technology side of things in the eighties for music technology at first, building recording studios, MIDI systems, keyboard rigs, electronic drum rigs, anything. I found that I had as much passion for home tech as I did for ProTech. , and so I started getting into home theater and like everything that I do as a business started as a passion. You could call it a hobby, you know, but it would be like a really, , you know, high octane hobby. 'cause I, I, I don't. I don't know, middle grounds. So if I'm in it, I'm sleeping, eating, breathing it, or I'm not interested in at all. And, , my mom and dad used to always say that, like, you know, can you find the middle? And I used to always search for it and. And look like, well, you know, if they're asking me to find the middle, there must be a, a good reason to do that. So I would always try to find the middle, but it never worked for me. I just had to be on or off. So I got into home audio, you know, the next thing you know, I have this incredible two channel system and I'm swapping out Dax, I'm swapping out interconnect cables, I'm swapping out power sources and, and all of the different steps within the power, , signal path and just really, really getting into it. And, and so naturally my pro business and where I was making a living would. They would intersect peop, you know, clients of mine would say, oh, you know, I, I love your home audio system, or, you know, I wanna do this as a playback system. And I had enough experience and knowledge from everything I had done in my own kinda laboratory that I would be able to offer services for. That same thing happened with home theater. I mean, my first home theater was a 40 inch. Mitsubishi tv, which if you remember at the time, going back to the eighties and nineties tube TVs maxed out at 40 inches. So you had to go rear pro. And of course front pro, you know, if you had the room. And so I, you know, that was like the beginning of my home theater was like the best tube TV I could fix. I had a very small home, , and growing up in Boston, very modest means. So everything was grassroots. And, um, and that's how that grew. And, and I'll never forget the first time I discovered Runco, you know, as I was going from this really modest home setup to what was possible with the same content. And that's what blew me away when I saw Runko and Far uja. And very, very early days of multi aspect ratio, front projection. What blew me away was, wait a second. This is the same content that I'm working on, and then I'm then playing back in my little playback room, which has no theatrical visual whatsoever to it. The audio, I was starting to really, you know, improve and, and use surround sound, which at the time it was, it was, , Dolby Pro Logic. So there we weren't at the point yet. In this story I'm sharing where there was discreet digital playback in the home. So this was before Dolby Digital, which then was known as AC three. This is strictly Adobe Pro Logic, but I was, , really, really passionate about understanding the difference between, , you know, digitally decoding analog decoding, THX, , processing. On top of it, I discovered the Fosgate processor, which was one of the best processes I had ever heard. The lexicon, of course, the mc one. And so all of this just tech that had so much cross pollination with the professional world. You know, at the time I'm working on records with Aerosmith and with the new kids on the block and this one and that one, and these really great artists and we're, we're experimenting and we're learning in the studio and, and working on the cutting edge. And then on the home side, I was applying the same approach. And , it was, you know, it was just really inspiring.

Ron:

That's a well, just to stay on that theme of home tech and you're still involved in projects, what's kind of your point of view on how the, the technology and the home has evolved? I'll just say over the last five or 10 years. What's, what, what's different today? Yeah.

David:

The, the lots of things, I mean, everything's gotten better, you know, from reliability to the fact that, um, you know, we're dealing with much more developed products. , of course it goes without saying the fidelity. I mean, when you look at, you know, 4K. Thank you, my friend. , when you look at, , you know, 4K playback and now HDR R 10 and on flat screens, Dolby vision, you know, we're just talking about, , extraordinary fidelity. Um, and, you know, that's obviously always gonna grow, right? When we look back at, at the history of all tech, whether it's home, pro, commercial, industrial, whatever it is, it's, it's always. You know, it's always growing. It's always gaining at every point in the process, right? Because you've got the source and then you've got the playback device, and then you've got everything. , you know, that could be in between that. And you know, the industry always loves buzzwords. 4K AK 16 K, but the fact is that. The sources are always gonna be, , you know, what, what we base everything from in terms of what's what's possible because everything is some derivative of that. Even if we're doubling it to eight K, it's a 4K source. You know, that's really what we have to work with. And then as that improves, , you know, everything can improve, you know, down the line. But when I look at today's tech, it's . You know, it just keeps getting better and better. And some of these texts, like the Mad vr, you know, which I'm a huge fan of, , the Mad vr nv, the demos are

Ron:

always so fun to see the before and after with Mad VR Tech. It's, yeah, it's just eyeopening.

David:

It is. And, and I've been involved with Richard and Matt VR since the, since the beginning. And now they're on the Mark two. Wow. Which is an incredible upgrade to the mark one. Um, and you know, it's a great example. , I, I'm not just picking one product and, and one moment in time because that's, you know, it's not possible to just do that, but I'll just use that as an example, as a sampling. To say these are the milestone moments, some of this tech that evolves that just kind of brings you back to the beginning. Like it makes you feel like a kid on, on Christmas morning opening a gift like this discovery, like all of a sudden a product like Mad vr, you know, you. You just have all this new capability and all this, you know, these tools to just get even more out of the source, more out of the display device. , and that's what it's all about. It's all at the end of the day, you know, coming from my backgrounds, making records, making music, um, performing, you know, just art, right? And, and the performance and creation of that art. That's, that's my core. And so that's all about emotion. Even if you're playing very technical music, it's still, there's an emotional component to how it feels and, and and what it does. And all of this tech, whether it's the button you press on a touch panel to make all kinds of events happen reliably and consistently, or it's a movie you watch in a home theater. It all comes down to the same premise, which is emotion. And in order to get that emotion to be captured and, and repeatedly delivered over and over and over, we have all of this tech and we have integration, and we have tools, and we have, you know, control systems and all of these other things. , but that's really what it comes down to. , and. The reliability of delivering that emotion is something that's really, really improved. So we've had some really huge sea changes since I started. You know, I'd say I started in earnest with the home side of things in the early nineties, whereas the mid eighties I was at that same point on. Professional, you know, recording side, um, right and live side. So it was, you know, there's always been kind of an eight or nine year gap between pro and and home for me. And they finally kind of caught up when I really, really dived into, , home in the mid nineties and got, just went all in. Became ISF certified and Crestron Programming certified and all the things that like really stepped up my game, my ability to deliver, , you know, solutions to clients. So, you know, today it's just more reliable and more, . You know, consistent, you know, 'cause that's always been to me. One of the things that, that I didn't like about the home automation world was that there were, you know, the more you customized, the less reliable it was and the more you were kind of doing like a mad scientist approach to things because the, the, the industry just hadn't caught up that you had some of the tools that you needed, so you had to create them. A lot of guys have done that, and I've done that and you know, there's a lot of innovation behind it, but I, I never thought the innovation was worth replacing reliability. And sometimes you just didn't have a choice. You know exactly what I'm talking about. You and I have grown. Together in this industry, as you said, for two and a half decades. And we've worked very closely together. Um, and I wanna say, , now, you know, you are a dear friend of mine and I value all of the friendship and, and collaboration we've had, and it's given each of us a front row to like the others experiences. And in that. You know, , it's always been a huge letdown when systems are not reliable. Yeah. So one of the things we have today in the tool set that's available and the evolution that's occurred since we've started is that, you know, you got some really, really reliable platforms. So now it's on us to just make sure you utilize them, you integrate 'em. Optimally. And, and now the client can just enjoy what they want and get all that emotion that we're talking about from whatever it is they're doing and not have it interrupted by, , a, a flaw in the system. 'Cause that's what, you know, any kind of issues with systems just ruin the experience that our clients are having. And that's just not an option.

Ron:

No, I, I agree. I, I wanna try to, , get somewhere. So I'm gonna share your website real quick, but only 'cause I wanna show an image on your one, one of your websites. I know you have multiple businesses, but, , let me, let me attempt to see if, , I can, you know what, I need to pull it back up, but just bear with me here. I promise folks, the, the juice is worth the squeeze. There we are. So here's david fran.com. , this is the website here. I'll, I'll put it on the screen, , just across the bottom for people that wanna go check it out. , and, and your website's very unique and interesting because you, you do have such a diverse set of skill sets and, and services that you provide your. Diverse customer and clientele. Um, but on this site, , here, and I'll, I'll pull that ticker off. , you, I, there's some, a couple of the faces, , of your, your many, just really fascinating clientele and friends that I know you work with closely. But one of those was Ozzy, and of course I'm mentioning this with Ozzy. , he just passed, , just in, in the past week or two. And, , when I met you. You were in the phase, or it was within a year or two of, of meeting you, David, where you were in fact, , on the MTV show. So your face was o the Osborne, the TV show. The Osborne. The Osborne,

David:

yeah.

Ron:

And I, I remember it and I, so I'm about to say something and it's, I promise I'm not being demeaning to any brand 'cause I'm gonna challenge, it's not the brand's fault. Very often when technology is poorly deployed or poorly serviced, a lot of times it can be. The technologist or the integrator that may or may not do their part to design it properly, install it, program it, service it. But what I remember so vividly was, I think it was on the show where, , you had opened a closet and out poured a stack of a MX touch panels that Ozzy had ripped everything out of his house. I think I'm remembering this correctly. Correct. Anything I'm saying if it's not correct. And you ultimately, as Audio one, ended up putting in Crestron in the, in the home. No. That

David:

that is, that is correct.

Ron:

It it, it was number one as your Crestron guy. I was like, yeah, go Crestron. But I, I'm not willing to say that that was am X's fault. , but just you worked closely with Ozzy. That's where I wanted to land the plane. Do you mind sharing maybe, , any of those experiences and what it was like to be in the house during that time?

David:

It was incredible. First of all, you know, God bless Ozzy. Um, it, you know, he was such an amazing, iconic artist. Everybody already knows that. But I just wanna say personally that it's a huge loss. And, um, I'm so blessed that I was able to work with him and spend time with him and Sharon and the kids and, , be on the show. And, you know, it was an incredibly exciting time and Ozzy's legacy will live on forever. And, , you know, he's just, he's just done so much on so many levels to Black Sabbath in his own career. So I was referred to Ozzy in 2003. Correctly. You and I knew each other a few years, and then from, from Lutron and, and as it turned out, an a MX system had been put in his home that the Osborne's was filmed in, in Beverly Hills. And um, and we did swap it all out for Crestron, um, because I was a Crestron programmer and I wanted to personally. Install it and program it. I wanted to be responsible for it myself. And I'm not an AMX programmer. So the Osborn's agreed to, , to switch to Crestron and let me become responsible for it. And, um, at the time there were those. Panels called the STX 15 hundreds, I think they were. Yep. And then they went to the 1700, , and they were brick, like wireless touch panels. They were very thick and they were kind of slanted, but they had hard buttons. They had five hard buttons on each side. And what was cool about that is that I, the hard buttons could be engraved. So one of the things I did is in the bottom right corner of every touch panel around the house, I, I had an engraved Ozzy, and on the bottom left corner I had an engraved Sharon. And so every room operated exactly the same regardless of sources and display and. And so, um, he had an album called Just Say Ozzy. , so we did a gag on the show because of this panel I design called saying Just press Ozzy. And it was like a gag off the, off the album, right? So, right. So he pressed, he would press Ozzy and it would go to the channel he wanted, which was the history channel. That's what he enjoyed watching. And so turn on the display, go to the history channel, route the sound, blah, blah, blah. And then on the screen would be some other functions that he would most often use. That were hard coded and I programmed it myself so that it could not be broken. You could, the things that would happen on his A MX system. , you know, would, would be such that the TV could be the opposite. Like you press on the TV would go off, you press off, the TV would come on. Like all the typical stuff that you see, like with IR systems that are trying to be really smart with logic, but they're not. It's, it, they're, they're too easy to get outta sync. So. I made it what I called and I say this now that Ozzy's not with us anymore. I'm really saying this with a tremendous amount of respect and regard and reverence, is that I, I, it was Ozzy proof, you know, so like he could never break the system no matter how many times he pressed it, no matter what source it was on, if the TV was on, if it was off, like no matter. Yeah. And so that was a really great accomplishment and they were really happy 'cause all they wanted to do was use the system. I mean, it's so basic that it's almost comical to say, you know, they wanna watch TV and they wanna listen to music. I mean, come on. But when, as we know as integrators, when you're in a complex. System when you have speakers and, and you know, and you have all these different things going on with the TV and different sources, , and you have different people coming in and out of the home all the time. There's more to it than it seems, right? If you could just pick up a TV remote and press the button and everything happened the way it should, then we wouldn't need integration so often. But, you know, we, he, it wasn't that simple there. I mean, they had multiple sources. They had a display, they had separate speakers and separate audio system. They had lighting control on it. Like they, you know, there were different things going on that the integration part was important. And so as soon as that, as soon as that need was there, now we had to make it so that it was foolproof and we did.

Ron:

Transition that for me. David, help me understand or help the audience understand kind of your role. , if they go to your website, they're gonna see that you've done music production for so many bands. You have so many, I'm gonna get all the terminology wrong. So you're, you're gonna educate me with the right words, but gold records. Platinum records, like you've been a producer behind the world's. Some of the world's biggest musicians. I mean,

David:

well, I've been a part of the records. I I part of the records always been the producer of, um, but yeah, that's, you know, my, my background is, , you know, music

Ron:

I, I mean, and audio. Yeah. Brian Adams, Aerosmith Sting. Ringo Star. I, I'm gonna date myself. I, in the eighties, I was a big fan of Paul Abdul. So, oh, yeah, yeah. She's great. Fan of

David:

No, those were huge records.

Ron:

Those were huge records. Yeah. But so you also now, I mean, I again, 'cause I'm always following you on social, I see that even now you're regularly, oh. I'm working

David:

with a lot of artists that that part of it only grows, it doesn't go away or, or change for something else. You know, it's all about, it's all about expansion and, and, and evolving. So I don't. Often, um, replace something, you know, I'll, I'll add another layer to it because I get into it for the first place. 'cause I love it. So why would I replace it?

Ron:

You also though, are involved, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you're involved in some capacity in movie audio production or movie audio editing. I think I've seen you talk about, , producing, um, videos or movies or even soundtracks. For a lot of the new modern audio systems in theaters

David:

is, well, I'm involved in scoring for, um, TV and, and, and film. , and I'm involved in, you know, anything that kind of, what about Atmos?

Ron:

Like the, well, I'm doing a

David:

lot of atmos mixing. Yes. The atmos mixing is mostly for music. Okay. I do some for picture, but it's mostly for music. Um, the, so like kiss their 50th anniversary, um, for of their first album, I remixed an atmos. So what does that mean though?

Ron:

I mean, break it down for me. So is that like someone that's watching a video? Of the, the performance in a theater or in an atmos type theater, they could listen to that surround or is it Yeah, audio only without the video would also be mixed in Atmos.

David:

It's either the, the, the kiss I do both. The kiss release we're talking about is audio only. So it's the first album remixed into Atmos. So you're in your theater and you have the Blu-ray of it, or you have it streaming from Apple Music, , and you have it going, you know, digitally, HDMI into an Atmos decoder, and then you hear my Atmos mix. Um, I also have done. Video projects where you're watching content and it's in Atmos. Right. And most of the movies nowadays, right, that whether I worked on 'em or not, obviously are in Atmos. , so that's kinda the standard is, is immersive audio is the term, , is, you know, we went from discreet 5.1 digital to discrete 7.1 digital, which is called True HD in Dolby's lingo. And then Dolby. Went to object based immersive audio, which they call atmos. So it was Dolby Digital at 5.1. It was Dolby true HD at 7.1, and now it's Dolby True HD with objects, which is all packaged up called Atmos. And in my recording studio. I have atmos mixing capabilities. So I have an actual Atmos encoder that my mix being sent to all the speakers. Of course, I have all the speakers in my studio, , to send the objects, , to, and the channels. And then they get encoded through this an Atmos encoder, and then they get packaged up and sent to the distributor for the world to hear and, and decode back into atmos.

Ron:

And kind of a nerdy question is the, is it is getting it right or not right? Is that really based on you? If you're the one doing that encoding, it's David Fran's ear that's determining what the mix for the world to hear is.

David:

Yes. Yeah. The encoding is, that's a lot of weight,

Ron:

that's a lot of responsibility, isn't it?

David:

Well, that's the, that's the creative process. You know, and everything we do has a lot of responsibility. I mean, you're gonna install someone's system. Where they could be spending hundreds of thousands or millions, and they're trusting that you're gonna deliver the goods that has a lot of responsibility and weight and, and so, and, and so doesn't, you know, mixing and producing, um, you know, it's like, it's like raising someone's kids, you know, when you take an artist's songs and you, you know, you're responsible for how they're gonna get heard by the world. Um, you know, it's, there's a lot to it, but, um, you know, that's what it is.

Ron:

, one of the facets that I described at the opening of this interview, , was that, , number one, you have many facets. One of those facets is this, , role, um, and responsibility around the modern drummer publication. Can you, , tell us what, what it, for anyone that is not informed of modern drummer, I'll share the website here while you're talking so people can see what that is. Tell us about modern drummer.

David:

Modern Drummer was started in 1977 by Ron Spady, and he really had this brainchild of, you know, let's take the drumming world and start a community and really feature. The drummer take the drummer from the back of the stage, , you know, behind a big kit where nobody knows who he is and what he's doing and how he's approaching his instrument. And let's bring him out front through this magazine, which at the time, that was the cutting edge way to reach, , the community was through a magazine and he was really the first on so many levels. The first drum festival, first drum videos, all kinds of things that he did first and. He died in 2003 and his widow was running the company with a team, , a great team for many years and they just weren't innovating, , at the level that they needed to. Consistent with this brand that was now in dozens and dozens of countries and world famous and, , and the most revered brand in the drum community. And an important brand, and they just weren't innovating. And they contacted me and asked me, um, if I would be interested in becoming publisher. And, um, this was in 2019. And so I jumped on board as publisher because I was a huge fan of the magazine. I was a subscriber for many years, so I loved the brand. I loved what it stood for. Again, I'm very passionate about it. Um, and so then in 2020, my wife Carolina and I acquired it and went from publisher to CEO, and now we're the steward for, you know, the world's most important, , drone community.

Ron:

That's amazing. , is is the. Is the magazine still printed and published or is it purely a digital magazine or is it, is it both or digital?

David:

It's a high, it's, it's both, but the, the majority of it's consumption is digital.

Ron:

It

David:

is. That's really, is that just a sign of the times It's printed. Magazines

Ron:

are, are less common today in 2025.

David:

Well, absolutely, and for good reason. I mean, you know, they, they cost so much money to print and mail and there's so many stories behind it. COVID really was a nail in the printed coffin. , and then you had all kinds of shortages result from that. And then now you have tariffs. , I mean, it's just been one thing after the other. Whereas digital, we can reliably create and control the path from. The team putting together this great magazine every month to the consumer, being able to have that on the first of every month. Um, so we are really focused on digital and we're focused on a lot of other initiatives. It's not just, it's gone so far beyond the monthly magazine now. It's really about the community. It's really about, you know, all that we do to, , further. The, you know, the world of drumming, you know, through education inspiration, , through behind the scenes, through experiences, meeting drummers, and just really being the place where all drumming kind of passes through. You know, we're like the, at the epicenter of the drumming highway.

Ron:

Again, anyone that's into mu music or musicians, my goodness, follow David and his life on social media, , you'll see him with. Who's who of, , all faces and facets of music. David's right there. And that's, is it primarily, and maybe I'm making a false assumption, is it primarily through modern drummer that I see you all over the world at different stadiums and different concerts and venues and studios? Is it, are you, are you there interviewing or, or interacting with artists? Or is, could it be frankly, from any of your business? Facets.

David:

No, it's, it's from any of 'em. It's not, it's not just, it's not just one.

Ron:

That's interesting. What's, , you talk about the community of modern drummer, what's, is there anything that particularly is exciting for you when you look ahead, you know, this year, next year, like what's ahead for that community where you're expanding into,

David:

oh yeah, we got some great stuff. , be, be on the lookout for it. We're gonna bring. Back some really iconic offerings that modern drummers had in the past that have been paused for a while. Um, we're gonna have some new products that are coming out that are really, really exciting. We just, , we're presenting sponsor at the Music City Drum Show in Nashville, , which is a two day drum show over a weekend, Saturday and Sunday in July. With, you know, 200 booths and thousands of of attendees, and we had signings with Godsmack Shannon Larkin. We had signings with Greg Bisat, whose Ringo's drummer and was in David Lee Roth's band with Steve V and Billy Sheen, , and is an iconic secession drummer. , and we had signings with Kos, Ray Luer. , the signings were like around the block of the. Of the show the whole time that they were on. So it was just, it was all branded

Ron:

Modern Drummers event and signing. Yeah. Oh, wow. At

David:

our booth. And it was just awesome because it really e excited the community. Like it just became the place where everybody congregated and people could, you know, meet their hero and talk shop and meet other heroes. You know, you were there to get. Shannon Larkin's signature, but then the drummer from Luke Combs is standing there, you know, the drummer from, , you know, Shania Twain or, you know, whatever. And it was just, , a great, great energy of, , of iconic and, and awesome, , musicians. And so, and that's really, you know, that's what Modern Drummer does. It brings everybody together and we learn and we share and we get excited and motivated, and. Then we kind of dig in and, and go further ourselves. You know? 'cause now we see somebody that we learn something from or has a different approach, or might be more successful, or might be less successful. And you learn and you go, oh, well why are they less successful? Because they've done these other things. Why? Why aren't they here? Oh, because they did that. All right, I'm gonna make a better choice than that. Or I'm gonna learn something that they didn't. And you see people more successful and you say, wow, how do they get that far? Then you learn that skill set. You say, oh, well they had a certain amount of sacrifice that, you know, I wanna apply to my career. Or they had a certain teacher that I'm gonna seek out and I'm gonna learn from, and all these things that just make everything better.

Ron:

Oh, when, when you, you, you became involved in, in the magazine in 19, you acquired it in 20.

David:

Mm-hmm.

Ron:

From that time to the president, what's one of, been one of the biggest surprises that you've learned taking on that responsibility? Biggest, you know, awakening, surprises, however you wanna position it,

David:

you know, the overarching, um. You know, lesson, , which is, you know, you, there's always so much more to learn and to improve no matter how good we are at anything, no matter how established the brand is, there's so much more to go. So, you know, every day is, you know, is day one and , and in the media business that's. More true than, you know, every business that I think applies to. But the media business really tests you for that. Um. Because you have to be so nimble and, and so dialed in. , and you know, when modern drummer produced its monthly issue for decades with any, without anything to do with me, my involvement, they had very long lead times because in the seventies and eighties and even nineties. Magazines had all kinds of timeframes and, and runways for when you created the content, when they would have to get printed, how long it took to mail. And so the runways were very, very long. But the subject matter for the most part was, you know, was. It kind of worked that it would have that long a runway. 'cause it wasn't like the super timely story. It was a story about what a drummer was doing, and if he was doing it in April, he was probably still doing it in July. So it didn't really have a negative impact, but as time went on. And the amount of projects that a drummer would work on and the way that a drummer would share their, , you know, their life and their projects with people really shrunk in time. So one of the things that I really, you know, focused on with modern drummers, I cut our months of lead time that I inherited. 'cause that was the workflow when I, when I became publisher to literally days and weeks. You know, so there's no, nothing's measured in months anymore. , it's all, you know, they were measuring in months and years. I measure, I always typically measure in seconds and minutes. So like, talk about, talk about an extreme. Um, so we kind of met where. It's, , it's, so you did find a middle

Ron:

ground.

David:

, I, I found a, a, a little more of a middle ground than, , than usual, but it was, it was a little bit of a middle ground, but it was far away from where the magazine had ever been. And so now we measure in days and weeks. , but you know me, so, you know, it's probably more like hours and days is what my team would tell you, but it has to be, you know, it's not, it's not just based on how I work and how I wanna approach things. Even though A-C-E-O-I, I have the, you know, the, the ability to, you know, really impose my will of how we're gonna do things and try to find like-minded people to do them with me and, and on behalf of the community. Um, but I just think that's what it needs, you know? Yeah. Besides. My preference. I just really think that serving the business of that is such that you have to be as, you have to be real time, you know, and live a digital, it's very different age.

Ron:

Yeah. In this digital age and the attention span and, , and just the competition. It, I can't imagine if speed isn't on your side, that you're, you're set up to succeed. So that sounds like that would, no, not not

David:

in the media business.

Ron:

That, that makes a lot of sense. I wanna rapid fire, I'm mindful of time. I wanna get to a couple of quick topics and I, again, I, I, I think I know that you're tuned into these topics. I'm just curious to get your take. , we'll go first to AI and how is AI impacting, I would say the mu the music business. And I'm gonna imagine it's, it's like most things in life, there's positives and there's negatives. And so, , I'll just, I'll, I'll lob that softball. What, what's going on in the music business as it relates to ai and what, where are your thoughts at?

David:

Well, I mean, AI is, is the subject of, of all subjects. I mean, it's. What can you say about it? It's, it's every single thing you do, it's, it is involved in, so the music business is hugely impacted by AI on every front, how music is made, how music is distributed, how music is, , technologically captured, , how music is copied. I mean, it's ev everything. I mean, ev every, is it

Ron:

more of a threat or more of an opportunity

David:

both. You really have to, , you, you know, it has to be worked out. You know, how, how these models are gonna scrape IP and , and still compensate, um, you know, creators. And then on the other side, that's the threat side. And then on the other side, the opportunity side, opportunity side's endless. I mean, what AI can do and how you can. I mean, we almost, we almost have to catch up to AI right now. You know? I mean, it's like I always would say in every business I've ever done, you know, just add ideas. Because to me that was always the brilliance of, of, , contribution. You know, it was what idea did you have and then how did you manifest that idea and how did you bring it to tangible reality? So it actually made a difference. And now with ai, you know, we've just shrunk, , you know, idea to implementation tremendously.

Ron:

AI will write you some song lyrics. I don't know if there'll be any good. It certainly

David:

it goes beyond that. Ron, someone played me a demo of a song the other day with the vocal on it and a rap in the middle of the song, and it sounded to most ears like it was done. It was like a finished song. It was a demo, but it, it sounded so good that it. You know, for most people they would've thought that it wasn't a demo, it was the song like, that's gonna go up on Spotify and people are gonna start streaming. But my point is, I, I kind of smirked when I heard it. 'cause I knew it was a, they were AI singers and rappers, but they didn't tell me that. And I just said. Look, that sounds really, really good, but those are not actual, that's not an artist singing a real person and a real person rapping. And they went, no, it's ai. But man, it sounded so convincing, , that most people would've never picked up that those were AI performers. So that's right now, and we're at, as we film this in the middle of 2025, this is early, early days.

Ron:

Early inning. So what are you doing? What have you done and what are you doing to raise your, your, the bar of your knowledge, your experience? Like, you know, somebody listening here, oh, I'm diving in,

David:

I'm diving in. How are you

Ron:

diving in? Share at least a, a couple of things you're doing that let people listening might go, that's a good idea. I'm gonna start doing what David's doing.

David:

Well, I'm, I'm learning a, a ton about it and through, you know. Just going out, taking courses, , and listening to really, really smart people who I collaborate with and what they're doing with it and how they're implementing it. And I'm also on the service provider side I'm doing, 'cause my music technology consulting business has always been consistent. What I'm consulting on changes as the music tech needs change and Right. , AI is something that, you know, I'm, I'm working with some cutting edge companies to consult with and taking what they've created on their side of their IP and bringing my years of learning innovation, , and exploration, , to speed up, you know, how we optimize the tool because. When, when you have a tool in hand, it's not just the functionality, it's as much the form and the experience. Again, back to emotion, you know, like you, you take a Crestron Touch panel. If we're speaking to the integration world right now, you know, you have a Crestron touch panel, you have thousands of variations of colors, backgrounds, images, button types, fonts. I mean, it's endless how you can configure it. But a lot of the buttons can be configured so that you press them and they do a function and it works fine. Right. You know, lights on, lights off. Okay. I press it, it works. But there are some approaches you could take to Lights on, lights off that. The person would actually want to use it like an Apple interface is a great example. Virtually the, the entire strength of how they've built, , their multi-trillion dollar company is that the, the, at the most basic level, the products work and their, and their fun to use, they're exciting to use. They don't feel like computers. And when you look at early days of tech. The functionality in many ways was similar to what could be done later, but it was presented so dry and so computer geek like that. It had zero appeal as far as wanting to keep using it. You just. Yeah, did whatever you had to do functionally and then you got off of it 'cause it was work to do it. Then you take a a really awesome user interface and experience and you apply that to the same functionality and now you never wanna leave the experience. So I'm able to. To see those different sides of it from very, very deep level tech to the emotion of how that experience unfolds. And so I'm consulting with certain AI companies on how to converge all of that and speed up what they're doing because the brainiac side of it is not. You know, it's not struggling, but what to do with it. So it's an actual product that people want to use every day and consume and create more with. That's something that, , you know, could use a lot of improvement.

Ron:

What do you think the world looks like the next three to five years? I'm gonna step out of music. I'm just talking about society.

David:

Man, it's connected is an understatement. I mean, I think we're gonna see just the whole way that we interact with tech. Um, things are about to get a lot easier and a lot more powerful, fast. And, you know, it's, tech has always been something that cuts middle people out. The middle of anything is kind of cut out by tech 'cause it, it bookends, you know, a need and a process, , very, very efficiently. And, , we're about to see that a lot sooner than three to five years. I mean, someone described. Sta, GPT as you know, the smartest assistant you'll ever hire. You know, and so when you take that and you get to the point where you know, you can book a hotel room, I mean, we thought technology peaked with, you know, Amazon one click. You know, and, and you know, Expedia or, oh wow, I can, I don't have to leave the app and I can book a hotel in a flight, you know, and I can bundle it all together and I can get some tickets to the amusement park while I'm at it. Like, these were all incredible efficiencies that, that had great impact. We're about to see that evolve so powerfully and so dramatically that. So forget three to five years, one to two years from now, we're gonna look back and we're gonna think Googling something and, and wrapping things up into an app. Was the dark ages

Ron:

are there, do you see any, , for society? And then I'm gonna keep that range, three to five years. Do you see any negative or challenges for society from ai, , resulting from ai?

David:

Well, of course, I mean, you know, on, on so many levels. But, you know, just the, the fact we have to get off of our devices, , and into the real world more often. Um, the devices are incredible. They're great tools. They're incredibly powerful and useful and needed, quite frankly. 'cause once we have them, we really don't wanna live without them. And I don't see why we should have to, but I'm seeing. An extreme use case all the time, especially as the younger people are coming up, getting older and growing up only knowing this. Where we thought video games, you know, were really, we had to be careful, like, oh, all, all my child does is play video games all day long. Like, that's like the least of our worries compared to what we're seeing now where, , you know, this always on world, , and AI speeding it up. Um, you know, it was really, . We have to be careful. We have to really be careful because it's, it's gonna impact people's social skills, people's empathy, people's, , you know, understanding of compassion and just dealing with people. So many things that, that you have to interact with People, get to know them and not just know them, , from, you know, some great sizzle reel that you see on social media.

Ron:

I'm gonna ask, this is gonna be my last question for you, David. , or last subject. , I'm gonna try to get you outta here right on time. I know you're, you're your guest there. We have three minutes. The, the work that you need to do is, is waiting. Um. You're one of the few guests I could go to this subject that I think would be comfortable with it. And that is, , I, I wanna get your take on Bitcoin, cryptocurrency, and, , NFTs. I know you've done a lot of work in this regard. I'm gonna ask you a high level question. What changes in society at a high level, broad, like, does this matter or does this not matter? You know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make an assumption, some listening to this. Have heard about it on the periphery, but it really hasn't entered their life yet. What's your take?

David:

Well, it, it matters. It's, I think it's gonna grow. I think it's gonna evolve. I think it's gonna come back. , NFTs, I'm not so sure of, at least in the form they were previously. And you're right, I've done a lot in that space and been involved in it and watched it grow and watched it crash, , and watched it normalize. And I think though that the blockchain is really the key to what all of this is about. That's really the key to it because the blockchain is what gives us these digital keys, really keys, , that, you know, allow content creators to control and monetize what they, what they create. Their assets and, and that's really huge, you know, if you think about creating a piece of content and it just kind of goes out into the wild West and the blockchain allows us to track that to the point where we can monetize and, and, and legalize and control. Where that content is, who owns it, what's it worth? How's it trading? Who's it trading to? Um, that has really, really vast possibilities. It's gonna be a

Ron:

big deal. Is it not for the music business, for the movie business, the ability for that every instance. And deployment. And tv.

David:

And tv. Huge. Absolutely. It's so massive run, and it's such a great point that you're bringing up, like that's a whole subject in and of itself. Yeah, we could spend hours and, and only be at the periphery of, of some of Summit, specifically movies, television, music, you know, so we'll call it, you know, recorded entertainment. . That's, , just, it's going to, the blockchain is, is a huge, huge part of it. And, , it's gonna solve, and we haven't even scratched the surface.

Ron:

It potentially, theoretically, solves a lot of the pain and misery that Napster created 25 years ago. Yeah. When pi, when all of this piracy, all this content went onto the internet, blockchain technology, NFT technology applied to those mid media content. This new frontier once UX is improved, and you know, the technology is ubiquitous, it seems to me it's an opportunity for artists to, in fact be compensated for the consumption of their, their creativity in a way that's really hard today without that tech.

David:

That's right. And it's, and it's, it's the artist and it's also. The channels, right? Because it doesn't do anybody any good when someone steals a Disney show. Um, or it's monetized at a fraction of what it's really doing out in the market in terms of performance. , you know, yes, the, the, the writer and the director and the producer and the actors and all the people that are residual in, , in compensation, , you know, they. They don't get paid, but Disney suffers tremendously, which means they can put out fewer pieces of content, you know, and like all,

Ron:

everything,

David:

everyone suffers

Ron:

because of that.

David:

Because it's stolen.

Ron:

That fraud.

David:

Yeah, because it's stolen, right? Or, or it's not monetized optimally, it's shared, you know, which is some cases a form of stolen, or it's not monetized optimally because you know it's being given away a little too. Often not stolen, but in other words, if you can track every iteration and it's tracked through the blockchain, now you really, truly are end to end, like they call DTC, right? Direct to consumer. You can now literally, , you know, control that entire, , path and that's really important.

Ron:

I, I, I could, I could nerd out on this subject with you for hours. I, I'm, as a hobby, 10 toes down in it as I, I know you are. But, , we won't do that to our audience. We'll, we'll save that for a follow up. And

David:

I have a collaborator waiting saved. I know you got

Ron:

a, a rockstar waiting right there. So, David, we're gonna sign off my friend. Thank you for joining me on this episode. Folks that wanna get directly in touch with you, where would you send them?

David:

Davidfrangioni.com and This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. And , thank you for having me today. It's been a pleasure to, , to talk to you and see you again my friend, and to share, , our ideas and our experiences with everyone. So I hope you guys got something from this and , it's great to be here. Thank you, David. Be well my friend. Have fun. You too. Bye everybody.

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Ron Callis is the CEO of One Firefly, LLC, a digital marketing agency based out of South Florida and creator of Automation Unplugged. Founded in 2007, One Firefly has quickly became the leading marketing firm specializing in the integrated technology and security space. The One Firefly team work hard to create innovative solutions to help Integrators boost their online presence, such as the elite website solution, Mercury Pro.

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Resources and links from the interview:

• David Frangioni first Automation Unplugged appearance


• David Frangioni LinkedIn Profile


• Modern Drummer Webpage

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