This week's episode of Automation Unplugged features David Wexler, Senior Director at EOC Audio. David’s journey in the industry began in 1970 as a stock kid for MusiCraft in Chicago, where he spent 24 years. In 1994, he and his wife, Evie, launched their own venture, The Little Guys, which grew into one of the most recognized audio/video brands in the Chicagoland market, reaching annual revenues of 14 million dollars.

After 25 successful years with The Little Guys, David joined EOC Audio as a consultant—a role that turned into a full-time passion. Over the last six years, he has helped quadruple the size of the company, expanding it from a 4-million-dollar operation into a multi-discipline powerhouse with over 55 employees and 16 million dollars in revenue.

In this episode, David and I discussed:

• How EOC Audio grew 400% in six years by prioritizing "buying right," leveraging the power of buying groups, and hiring talent in advance of growth.
• Why long-term success comes from "saying yes" to clients and builders alike, and how David used 12 years of live radio hosting to build a legendary reputation in his market.
• And A look at the rising demand for sophisticated lighting design, motorized window treatments, and the high-growth world of professional golf and shooting simulators.

Visit the episode page on our website to get the audio recording, full transcript, and video of the original webinar. Now let’s tune in and learn how smart ceiling fans have evolved into a meaningful business opportunity for integrators.

SEE ALSO: #357: The Missing Layer of the Smart Home: How to Position and Sell Smart Ceiling Fans

 Transcript 

Ron:

Hello. Hello there. Ron Callis here with another episode of Automation Unplugged. For those of you that are regular listeners, you know that, , off and on this spring and, , early summer I've, , I've had a cold and some sinus issues, so I'm, I'm ... A lot of that's finally starting to clear up, so I sound a little more human, , which, , feels good. I'm actually feeling a little more human, a little bit, , more towards my normal self. I'm very happy to be here with all of you, and we have another awesome show. Today we have a special show, 'cause we have, you know, one of those lifetime greats that has helped create this industry, , really has been a part of this industry's founding. , I, I'm gonna go back to the early '70s, , and has remained a key player in our industry even here in 2026. And, , I'm super excited, , that he agreed to come on the show. I've actually, , asked him a few times and, , I ran into him again recently, earlier this year. , I wanna say ... , actually, he'll probably correct me. I wanna say maybe we were at the Lightapalooza show, and, , I asked him again and he said, "Of course, let's do it." And, , we booked it, we made it happen, and here we are. And that is, , I have the one and only David Wexler. , if you've been in our space, , meaning our industry, you know that name and you know that name well. , his name and his reputation precedes him. , he is currently the senior director at EOC Audio out of Lisle, Illinois. That's, , , Chicagoland. , but he is, , maybe most well known for being, , the, the owner of The Little Guys, , Audio Video. They're out of the Chi- Chicagoland market, , and, and ran that business for almost 25 years. And so we're gonna, we're gonna learn about all the stories and the history. And he actually ran a, and was a, a part of a, an, a AV operation for 24 years before that, and that, that business was called Musicraft. So we're, we're gonna learn about all of these, , adventures in audio, video, and control, and all the other stuff, , from the one and only David Wexler. So without further ado, let me go ahead and bring in David and, , let's see how he's doing.

David:

Well, well thank you. Dave,

Ron:

how are you, sir?

David:

Gonna be tough to live up to that intro, though. Very tough to live up to that intro, but thank you very much.

Ron:

, you are welcome. You know what? I'm actually ... , normally I keep it in this tight shot for those that are watching. I've, I've got it just, , you know, my head and David's head on the screen. , but w- I'm actually gonna back out real quick so that we can see what's going on behind you. Because there are a lot of tennis shoes behind you, , David. So maybe we'll start off, where are you coming to us from for this, , for this, , interview? So I am actually

David:

in my office at EOC Audio in Lisle, Illinois. And, , , the, the background is I'm a sneakerhead, right? So always, always been a sneakerhead. Love to collect shoes, love, love, love the, , , going back to the old Converse days and the rest. And, , and this is just my way of sharing it with people. That's all. Little smaller kids' sizes, , hanging up on the, on the walls behind me.

Ron:

All right. So what does it mean to be a sneakerhead? It means you like to collect sneakers and you wear them- Yeah,

David:

buy, buy and sell and, and, and collect, you know, kind of rare ones or odd ones. You know, that kind of a thing. I'm not a, I'm not a extreme high-end guy. There, you know, there's sneakers out there that are 3,000, 5,000, 10,000, $20,000. I'm not a, I'm not a Louis Vuitton sneaker collector. But- Yeah ... you know, the, around the Jordan thing, sh- , , athletic style kind of shoes, , all the different athletes and, and, and a lot of Jordans. But, , just cool ones, weird ones, strange ones, just things that just catch my eye and that, and that I wanna wear. And, , and I wear sneakers every day, so you know, just g- got a different pair to wear every day, basically.

Ron:

But what you, before we started recording, you were sharing- Yeah ... a, a fantastic business, s- being a sneakerhead- Yes, so it's,

David:

it's evolved. It's evolved, and I'm just getting ready to start doing some live streaming, selling, , sneakers and, , vintage tees, right? Vintage, vintage T-shirts and that kind of thing. Just oddball, , cartoons and Harley Davidson and, and, , athletics and sports and jerseys and, and those kind of things. All kind of, it's all kind of tied in together. , and, , we're gonna do some livestreams on Whatnot. So, , keep an eye out there. It's David Wex is the username on Whatnot. So keep an eye there and, , it'll be another month or so till we get the studio ready and get everything kinda how I want it to be, but, , but it'll be a lot of fun. Be a lot of fun.

Ron:

That's... W- where did you, how long have you been marinating on this idea to start streaming and selling and kinda having fun? Only been about a year.

David:

: Only been about a year or so. J- just the last, the last year, , just thinking about it, kind of in, you know... A- and my wife saying, you know, "You cannot..." The rule at the house was you cannot buy another pair of shoes till you get rid of a pair. And I don't get rid of 'em. I, I just keep putting them in bins and putting them in bins and putting them in bins. And, , and, and she said, "Well, why don't you just do what these other guys are doing? Just sell 'em," or whatever. So I thought to myself, "All right. Yeah, let's do it. It's fun." I love- What an idea ... I love interacting with people. I love... I, I mean, that's, I was born in the retail business, right? I mean, I, I love that, that part of it. That's, that's probably my, the- The, the best of it all for me is, is just interacting with people. Happy people, unhappy people, I don't care. Just interacting with people and, and making them happy, , i- Yeah is a big part of what I've always done and, , and, and being in the sneaker business, the same kind of concept, right? So ... All

Ron:

right. So tell me your, your, your, your title at the moment is senior director, , at EOC Audio. Of course, many in the industry know you for The Little Guys. Yeah. , that was your... We're- we'll go through all your background. But- Yeah ... EOC Audio, tell us about that business. That business is blowing up. -

David:

Yeah. EOC,

David:

: so,

Ron:

so when

David:

I got here in 2020, we're, we're doing X dollars. And, , and, and we've, , more than quadrupled the size of the company since then in a collaborative effort, not just me. But more, more than quadrupled the size of the business in the last six years. We, , we've expanded the offerings. We've cleaned up a lot of things that needed to be cleaned up and, and made it a, , a, a more profitable business. And, , and we've expanded our offerings and, and, and the things we do in, in the industry, right? It was a lot of... E- EOC originated as an alarm company in the '80s that Dad started. , Steve Callis started a company that, that basically sold alarms called EOC Secure. And in, , 2007 or so, James, the son, , decided that, that he could create a, an entire business of just doing the audio part of it. He always was more intrigued by that than the alarm part, and, , had been doing installs for his dad since he was, you know, a little kid. And, , and created EOC Audio, and built a company based on a very simple concept. Whatever the customer wants, we're going to do it. The answer is yes. Just, it's just yes. It's all customer service-based. Most CI guys who started out of their garage were only worried about the next sale, and he was worried about the past ones. Right? He was worried about taking care of clients, and that, that is what we live by a- at EOC. We live by the, the, the taking care of the client. We have 40 to 50 builders on our roster at this point- Wow ... , 10 or 15 of which we're active with at a time. We're in, , 20 to 25 houses a day between service and, and, and, and installs. And we do everything from simple to the extreme. So you, you can check out the website. You can see if we're, if we're hanging a TV, we'll hang a TV. If we're, if we're, you know, p- putting up one pair of outdoor speakers for someone, that's what they want, it's fine, to $500,000, million dollar projects, wherever. Whatever it takes. , if, if we know we can do it and we can make them happy, that's, that's, that's what we're gonna

David:

do.

Ron:

Describe, , maybe what a simple project ... I- is a simple project a hanging a TV? Is that like a normal, regular project? And- People bring us

David:

in, probably a TV and it could be a sound bar. It's more likely a receiver and some speakers, but, but it could be a sound bar, or could be just putting Sonos in the house. , now lighting is, is, is, , , become a huge part of what we do, right? So it's lighting control and lighting fixtures. It's not just, just the control. And, , , that's become a big part, you know, expanded to that. It is whole house stuff and we have projects all over. We have, you know, multiple projects in Naples, Florida. We have projects in Puerto Rico. We have, we have, , a ton of stuff in Traverse City, Michigan, Wisconsin. Whatever it takes, , we're, we're, we're willing to do, you know, what, what, what the clients need. Phoenix, you know, that kind of thing. , so, so it's ever expanding to the full whole house audio and, and, and control and lighting and, you know, window treatments and landscape lighting and j- networks obviously are the foundation of everything we do in today's world. , so all of that.

Ron:

I love it. Yeah. I'm sharing your website for those that are- Oh, fantastic , watching on YouTube. , I'm just, , I'm clicking through the website. , in terms of the geographies, , you, you had mentioned a few there. Is- Yeah ... the brunt of your work in Chicagoland? Yeah Or do you guys do more nationwide? The majority

David:

of what we do is here, right? It's, it's typically people's second homes or third homes or fourth homes or, you know, th- there, there, there are other properties that we're doing that are, that are out of town. , they get used to how we take care of them and, and they're just not willing to accept anything else. You know, my initial thing back in, back in the day was you're better served by me finding you a really good dealer in, in that town. But with today's remote dialing capabilities and being able to, to access the systems and, and make changes on the, , remotely, , we can service them the way they're used to being serviced and, , and why not, why not do it that way? So ...

Ron:

Now I'm noticing on the website there's a gallery, and your gallery, you've got a lot of different disciplines: multipurpose rooms, home theaters, automation, outdoor. , and, and you actually have pictures, and you have pictures of what looks like might be your work. - It is ... or at least m- much of it's your work. - Yeah ... , that w- why ... D- I'm going sideways here, but what, why, why do you or the team believe it's a good idea to show pictures of your work on your website? And I'm saying that, I'm picking on the people listening that refuse to take pictures of their jobs.

David:

So I will tell you that it is an extreme struggle to get those photos. , and, and, and every once in a while we just hop on the bandwagon really strong and, and make sure that the installers and/or we send out somebody to do, you know, professional shots. Now there's some of those p- Some of those projects, they're not all ours, but, but 90% of them are. And, , , people, people go to your website to get ideas. People, people need to be inspired. , they know they want something, they don't know what they want. Yeah. And, and to add to your credibility, to add to, to the, you know, what you can create for them requires some inspiration. And, and really it is, it, it, that's what it is. And it's validation of, of, of what we do.

Ron:

Yeah. , what's also, , I'm gonna give you guys credit. Right on the front page of your site, , on the, on the homepage-- and by the way- Yeah ... for the folks listening, , it's eocaudio.com, eocaudio.com. And, , you're, right when I scroll down above the fold on your website, , and, and just for people think we're doing a One Firefly commercial, we, we don't do your marketing, we did not do your website. It's

David:

true.

Ron:

, but you guys are leading with, like, Google reviews, Houzz reviews, Facebook reviews. You're leading with the concept of reviews. , do, do you have an opinion on the role of, like, your business getting reviews on the internet, and whether that, y- do you feel that that matters?

David:

Oh, it's huge. It's, it, it's really huge, and we take it very seriously. , if we get 4.5 stars, , we are immediately on the phone with that client and, and we wanna know why or whatever. We, it, it's, it's critical for us. It, it really is. We, it's, it's not a game. It's not, , something we take lightly. , if, I think we've had one, in, in all, since I've been here, I think there's been two reviews that were negative. One was about how one of our guys was driving on the expressway. Sorry. And, and, and and, and one was, , semi-valid, right? That we, where we made a mistake. , but our whole concept is, , we're not perfect. We're not beyond making a, a mistake. It's just that we're never gonna let it stand. Yeah. We're going to fix it and take care of it, right? Yeah. And the reviews, total validation, , besides helping in the organic search and, and, and, and everything else. , James' bro- James Gallo, who owns EOC, his brother Chris, , , really works on the site every day and, and, and he and I collaborate on, on copy and, and, and, and that part of it. But he is, he's kind of the, he's the webmaster. He's the guy behind the scenes that, that makes this stuff happen. And, , and his insight into- Using the right words, having the depth. You know, sometimes people say your sites are wordy or whatever. Yeah, they're wordy, because when people search for things , they need to be wordy so that they find us or whatever. How, how

Ron:

do you think Google or AI know whether or not, what you're good at, or what- Yeah ... what type of solutions you offer if you don't put the words on your website?

David:

Yeah. It's, it's not good to be a do it yourselfer on the, on the web, on the web. And I, I claim no... You know, I, I get what people want and I, and I have a slight idea of what Google wants, but you need somebody who understands your business and it's, and, and, and, and focus. You guys do a great job of it. I've seen your sites and I've, I've seen your... I've participated in some of your campaigns.

David:

You,

David:

you, you gotta have somebody that understands you. And, and to me, the most important thing is that it's written in, in EOCE, I call it. Yeah. Just like the Little Guy's site was in Little Guy's ease. It was more casual, it was more conversational. It was, was more who we were, right? Yeah. , I think that message needs to come through on your site. , so it needs to be you. It needs to be your personality, and that doesn't... You guy- again, you guys are an exception to the rule. That typically doesn't get done by an outside person who's working on a, on a site or a campaign.

Ron:

Yeah. It, it's, it, it requires the focus on, , knowing that that customization matters and then, again, for us as a third party, interviewing the customer enough so that we can learn- Yeah ... that, , that language, that lexicon, knowing their ideal customers and, and all that jazz- Yeah ... and communicating that accordingly. All right. So David, you've, you've been around, , for a little bit, and you've done some things. And, , if you'd be willing, I'd love you to take us back. Tell us about your, your backstory. I know a lot of people are gonna enjoy

David:

it. Sure. I, I, I, I was a sophomore or junior in high school and, , and my, my dad's friend owned a stereo store. And, , they asked me to come in and, and, and, , I was... You know, to be a stock kid, right? I just needed a job. And, , and actually, I didn't get hired on my first interview, , because the guy who was running the store could not deal with my, you know, gigantic afro or whatever, right? My janic- my gigantic fro or whatever. He, he wasn't what I, what he... I wasn't what he was expecting. And, , and it took him about two weeks to three weeks. He called me back finally, said, "You know what? Come on in. Let's, let's go. Let's make this happen." So I learned the stereo business from, , I, I would like to say from the inside out. From just carrying boxes to learning how to build turntables and mount cartridges and, and, and learning what people like. And, and I, I was always, , amazed at the interaction with clients on, on, on the retail sales floor, 'cause it was a, a retail store. No TVs, no video, just, just stereos. And, , I was always amazed at the passion that the people who came in the door had for the stuff. And then how the salesmen worked that and made sense out of that so that the clients were getting what they wanted and what they needed. And, , I just, , it was awesome. And, , after about a year of being a stock guy kind of a thing, went on to one of the other stores and became a, , a manager there, allowed me to be a salesperson. And, and it really came from in the '70s, the, the people were lined up to buy stuff. There weren't many- How common were

Ron:

these types of stores, stereo stores? Like, like-

David:

It- You think about today,

Ron:

like it's, it's- Lit- literally full of... There,

David:

there weren't many and, and this one, this one was really, really cool because we had systems set up on the four-by-eight sheets of paneling on the wall, right? So we had systems set up all the way around. We had carpeted shelves with components on them where you could listen to different speakers with different receivers and, and you literally pulled out the quarter-inch s- or quarter-inch, , plugs and plugged in other quarter-inch plugs to the other numbers. , it was, it was the basics. It was, it was the beginning or whatever, right? And yeah, we sold McIntosh and JBL and Altec Lansing, but we sold Sansui and Pioneer and Kenwood and, you know, and all the rest, right? So th- that, that was, it was an amazing time. The, the, like I said, '70s, you know, we were open two nights, two nights a week and, , and then, and Saturdays obviously as well. , , two late nights a week and, and th- they'd be five, six deep at the counter waiting to get taken care of. I mean, it was- Wow ... it, it, it was craziness. It was, it was crazy, crazy times and it was a ton of fun and, , and, and like you said, you had total passion. I said it. You had total passion for, for what you were doing and y- you were really into it. You were proud to say you worked at Musicraft or y- y- this is what I do, you know, that kind of a thing. And it wasn't selling something that people didn't want. It wasn't selling insurance. It wasn't selling real estate or, or whatever it was. You know, tho- those are really, really hard things to do 'cause people don't really wanna do it and, and you're getting them to do it. This was fun. This was a, this was a blast. So built, learned how to wait on people, learned how to take care of customers, learned what it took to, to make people happy. , towards the end of my time at, at Musicraft, , we brought in TV over the last three years or four years of there. So that was late '80s, early '90s. So we were late adopters, right? Very late adopters. Even though we sold surround sound, we didn't sell TVs, right? And, , so we started bringing that stuff in. The last few years I spent kind of managing the, the five different stores, , and, and then going on Saturdays to sell at the, my store, you know, that kind of a thing. , so that was a ton of fun. , the company had weird ideas of what they wanted to do and how they weren't kinda changing with the times with install and, and the other things that needed to happen and, , and, , another guy that I worked with and myself and a third person, my brother-in-law Paul, decided, a- and our wives by the way, it was, it was a, it was, , three couples, , decided that, , we could do our own thing. Right? Let's, let's do our own thing. Let's, let's come up with something. Yeah. We tried to buy Musicraft, that wasn't happening. And, , and we just decided to create a company called The Little Guys. , we couldn't think of a better name. It just w- was cool, and l- let, let's just go with it, and we'll just have to explain it to people, right? Why, wh- where did that come from? Where did the name come from? Well, we weren't, we weren't Pacific Stereo. We weren't mu- even for us, Musicraft. We weren't, we weren't th- as corporate as Silo or Fredders or Hile. We weren't these big corporate companies. We were the little guys. We're a small company that, that wanted to do what we were doing. And, , - Okay ... the three couples were together for probably about a year, year and a half. Then, then one, one couple left. , many years down the road, , I bought out my brother-in-law and, and, and it was my wife and I. , my wife had as much to do with the success of the Little Guys as, as I did. I was more of a face, but she was, she was, you know, a huge part of m- of making it work. Evie, she, she was, sh- she was the, the discipline behind the insanity, right? And, - Right ... so we started out with a store that was 5- 5,000? 5,000 square feet. We were there for f- four and a half, five years. Moved into, , 13,000 that, that within six months added on another six. Wow. So we're in a 19,000 square foot store. , and we had a 10,000 square foot warehouse behind us. I mean, we were doing a lot of business. We were big. We had, , 14 rooms. , half of them theaters, half of them lifestyle rooms. We had a slice of a house within the store. We did all the cool stuff, ahead of the curve as we could be. We got a ton of help. When we started, we got a ton of help from, , a, a lot of the, the icons of the industry. The John Flanners and the Bjorns. , Bob Abt would answer questions for me. Shelly Miller from United Audio. , , just a ton of guys from around the country, a- all extremely helpful. , even though I came to them cold and they didn't know who I was or, or, you know, kind of a thing, , other than that I had worked for a company called Musicraft. They didn't really know, know about us, but they still were so helpful. I mean, I n- I never forgot that or whatever. How, how good they were to us and their ideas and, a- and the rest. , and we're still friends to this day, almost all of us. And, , , and, and I get a call once in a while to ask advi- you know, to be asked advice from them or whatever. So it, it's, that's a really cool thing too. So, , so anyway, we, we did The Little Guys. Built it up, got it. You know, we're, out of a single location we were doing over $12 million, $13 million a year, , out of one location, , on the far south side of Chicago in the suburbs, , of Chicago. Not where you would typically be if you were doing it. But we did it through marketing. It was a big deal for us, right? Yeah. So besides the typical generic marketing of mailing and, and handing out flyers and doing all them, you know, you... Or exploiting the database. , we, we started, , we went on the air. We did radio shows. We were on a sports station. We were on a sports station in, as far as our commercials. We did a lot of radio advertising. And then eventually we had our own show, both on, , WCKG, that's Steve Dahl's station, and, , , WLS, which was a huge 50,000 watt AM station. T-

Ron:

tell me more. What, what'd you do on the show? Were you the personality there talking and answering phone calls? Every, every, every, myself.

David:

, it was called The Little Guys Technology Hour. We took calls from listeners. , we answered questions about technology. We got people through the whole HDTV thing, right? 'Cause that was a big deal. Confusion and, and how does, how does that work and what do you do? And then we answered questions on, , on anything they called in on, we took care of. And then we'd bring in guests, just kind of what would ... We'd bring in, , people from Sony or people from whatever industry. , Rick from AudioQuest would come on all the time. We, we, lots of different people. People that people had questions for. And, , and people got their questions answered in a non-salesy pers- from a non-salesy perspective. They weren't in a store where someone was trying to sell them something. They were just getting taken care of. And that built and built and built, ... I cannot tell you how good it was for our business and f- and for what we did. To this day, and it's been years, right, since we've done it. To this day I'll, I'll walk in somewhere and, and I'll be talking to s- , to somebody, and someone will go, "I recognize that voice from the radio," right? I mean, it's crazy. Crazy. That's crazy. But people, people tuned into the show. We were ... We had a, a hu- most paid shows, pay-per-view shows, where you paid to be on the air, most of those shows don't have a huge audience. We had a great audience from all over. And, and, , and I also did live, , , snippets with, with the radio personalities that were on the sports station and the, and the, , FM stations. So they'd call me up and ask me to come into ... "Can I, can I come by for, you know, half hour, 45 minutes? Let's do some stuff on the air." Answer questions for people, you know, fill their airtime, right? They, they love that. And, - Yeah ... it, it was a blast. It

David:

was a blast. That's-

David:

And the sports station helped build us. Yeah, the sports station we ... You know, we had a- our own little, ... They called us out. They had the little guys and they, and they called us out all over the place and, and, and talked about us all the time, way beyond any money we could have ever spent. We didn't have that kind of money. , th- they, they, they made that really kind of get us off the ground. So I learned the value of, , not immediate ROI necessarily, but I learned the value of long-term, , advertising and promotion and, and, and the rest of it. So- That's, that's- It, it was a blast.

Ron:

It was a blast ... that, that's, that's awesome. They, how many

David:

years did you do the radio? , over 10. Probably like 12 years total on the two stations. - Okay ... you know, every ... It was Saturdays for a year or two, but every Sunday from 11:00 to 12:00, you know, drive... And we'd do, we went into the studio almost every time. Rarely did we do a remote and, - , we were, we were into it. It was fun. It was fun. It was, it was a lot of fun. Evie was great. She, she ... You know, there's nothing more disarming than having a woman answer your questions about Maybe that's a sexist thing to say, but to have a woman answer your questions and make you feel comfortable that, that, you know, that ... And, and, and the women would call into the show too, right? Mm. So it's not a guy thing. , you know, they pretend that it is. But

Ron:

so it was you and your wife answering all the questions. Yeah.

David:

Oh, yeah, 100%. Yeah, both- Oh,

Ron:

that's, that's amazing ... feeding off of each other,

David:

interacting with each other. She'd, she'd, she'd do a show. If I was out of town and she did a show, she would do it. , she, I mean, she, she was, it was, it was great. It was a ton of fun. Do,

Ron:

do you think that would still work today in 2026, that- Yeah,

David:

I do I think it would work, but it would be different, though. It would, it would be, it would be different. I think the podcast has kind of taken the, that part of it away. , at Little Guys we did livestreams, you know, a- after the, after the radio show we did livestreams, and, , we'd, we'd let people, - Like, you know, on YouTube? email in or text questions, right, right, so we could answer them that way. But, , it definitely it's, it's, it's changed. We a- we ... When I came to EOC, we did do a radio campaign for, for the first three years or three and a half years, , on that same sports station. And we, we leveraged the Little Guys image and reputation a little bit, right? And the name and, and, and the comfort and the, and the acceptance of us, and we'd say, you know, I said, I would intro the spot, the radio spots with, "Hey, it's David, , from, from EOC Audio, formerly of The Little Guys," you know, for the first year or so, just to get people to know who we were to, to take advantage of that. And, , and then, then EOC had, had its own reputation and its own whatever and, and brought it all together. And, , and we are actually, we're right now, , in discussions with the, with the radio station about maybe doing it a little different, not just being on that one station, but doing it with one of the streaming services and then, you know, picking the, the, the right demographic- Oh, interesting the right everything else. And

Ron:

so- So you're, you're, you're right now noodling potentially bringing this, bringing it back, making it modern- Yeah, yeah ... doing it- Not the live

David:

call-in show, but the, that, that part of it. And then podcasts and the rest, like, , is just getting going for us. We're, we're just getting ready to, to, to, to start do all the, the video stuff that we, we just haven't had time to deal with, so.

Ron:

Okay. That makes se- ... How did it end at the ... How did your, you, you and your wife, how'd you guys end The Little

David:

Guys? , we, we, we got into, I mean, putting the cards on the table, we got into some disputes with landlords. We had some guys coming back after us for some goofy stuff, and, and, and obviously we were completely innocent of everything. But, but, , but, , we got towards the end and, and we both decided we're in a really good place- We, we, we, we don't owe any, any real ... We have some personal debt, but we don't owe any real debt to anybody. W- everybody's paid off. We're, we're never leaving any clients hanging ever, right? We can, we can s- Yeah spend two months or three months finishing every project, making sure everybody's taken care of. , having no idea that I was gonna stay back in the industry, you know, we, we can take care of all that. We go out different than everybody else goes out. You know, every- everyone else who closes, closes on a negative basis and starts taking deposits, and that's just not who we are. We didn't want the ... We didn't wanna ever sit down in a restaurant and have, , somebody at the next table, "Well, that guy, you know, took advantage of my blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's just not who we wanted to be. So we decided the time was right. , we had shrunk the business significantly at that point anyway, and, , and, and we just decided the time was right. , found people jobs, found them positions in other, in other places, and then, , and hung on to the point where we felt that was it, we're done.

Ron:

And- That's awesome ...

David:

and went from there. How,

Ron:

how did you run into EOC AE- yeah, EOC Audio? Yeah. Well, a- How did, how did that marriage happen?

David:

A couple of my guys, , asked me about places to work. EOC had always been one of the places that when we, ... And we didn't run up, run up against them that often, but when we did, it was very difficult to compete with them. That it, it was a, it was a tough sell, and we would lose a deal or two to them, right? The clients, the clients liked them. And, , so I ... When they asked me, you know, where should I installers and where, where do I go, where, what do you think or whatever, and, and I said, "You should check out EOC." So first one of our sales guys came here, then one of our installers came. This is all in a couple of week period, three-week period or whatever, four week period. Yeah. And then, , they came to me and asked if I would come and consult with them. Would, would you, would you ... "Can we pay you to hang out for a day and consult with us and tell us what we're doing, what we're doing wrong, what, what you think we could do that would be better, how can we grow?" And, , I said, "Yes, I will do it, but you can't pay me, , because nobody ever charged me." Right? Those ... Think of the people that I sat in those rooms with or whatever. , no, they never charged me any. In fact, they ... a lot of times they bought me dinner, right? They said that, you know, they could afford it better than I could at this point. Someday I could buy them dinner, but, but, , so I said, "No, but I'll, I'll come out." And, and I hung out for, , most of a day and, and, and they asked if they could hire me. , and frankly, I told them probably not, because I don't think you make enough money to pay me what I need to get paid. And he said, "Well, let's let ... Why don't you let us worry about that? Maybe we can figure something out." And then it, it all worked out. So, , , I came to work and, and James, , James is really ... My, my mission was to grow the company. That was, that was what I was told. , "We wanna make it bigger. We wanna grow it. We want it, we want it to always be so that it's saleable." Yeah ... right? Build it to the point where it's, where, where it has value, right? Not that we're gonna sell it necessarily, , although we could. But not that we're gonna sell it, but because we wanna, you know, that's the position we wanna be in. And, , , I said, "You know what goes along with that," right? When you have 13 employees right now. When you grow the, the company, whatever little headaches you have become big headaches, and whatever, whatever other things that have to happen, you know, your, your, the amount of money you need each month to survive is bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And yes, I can help with all the back end stuff. I can help make us more profitable. I can help make sure we're getting the right deals. I can use a, you know, the, the power of ProSource or, , , to, to, to leverage, , our position in the marketplace. I can give us a reputation, which is what they wanted, you know, in the marketplace. And, , we did all of that stuff as a team. We, I mean, we all did it together. Everybody worked really hard to make it happen. And, , and to James's credit, it wasn't about ego ever. It wasn't, "I need to do this," or, "I want it this way," or, "I want that." It's, "You know what you're doing. You guys figure it out. , you know, let me know what it is and, and, and, and y- you're gonna have basically free rein to, to make it happen." And, - Yeah ... and he's got some special skills that I don't have, right? He can interact with builders and designers and, and architects way better than I do. He's really good at it, , especially builders. He's great at it. And, , and he knows, , he knows money really well, and he knows how to, you know, set up things behind the scenes. He, he's great at it. So, , as a team, a group of us made it, you know, made it happen. And so today we're 60 employees, , from 13. And, , , and, and, and still, we're still having fun. We, we, we, we like to say that we, we work really hard, but we also play hard, right? Our employees are, are of utmost importance to us. Th- nothing's more important than, than the people who work here, other than the clients, the clients themselves or whatever are, are, are the key. And the, , , so we, we, we go go-karting, we go fishing out on Lake Michigan, you know, charter. We, we do a, a huge poker night here where we buy them all into tournaments. , next Friday is, is the huge bags tournament with cash prizes. And, and we feed them all the time, and we, and we, and we have, you know, cookouts. And, and, and it's just all about keeping that camaraderie going. We, we want people to wanna come to work. We want people to wanna be part of the family.

Ron:

Yeah. Well, I mean, when I hear you talk about the way you're loving on your people, I mean, that's, that's really the DNA of your culture, right? So it's, it's like you guys focusing on your culture. Where, where did that come from? Was that James? Was that, , did that just- I mean, we always did it at Little Guys,

David:

but, but James, James take it, took it to a, a little bit higher level than, than even than we did it Right? We cared about them. We did lots of cool stuff and, and had a, had a lot of fun as a company. But, but he's, he's about making sure everybody's, everybody's taken care of. And, and, , he comes from the install world, right? So he understands the mentality of, of the install side. He understands the, how they feel about work and, , you know, how they feel about different projects. He, , he'll, he'll go show up on a job site and start, you know, pulling the wires with them and, and doing what it takes kind of a thing. He, he, he gets that perspective. My, my perspective's a little more sales oriented. I can argue either side, because I've had to be all of those things, but, but, , but I'm still a little more sor- sales oriented, right? So between us, , we've really got it kind of, kind of handled. , and we debate back and forth. You know, "You're, you're taking it from the installer perspective." "No, you're taking it from a sa-" You know, that, that kind of thing, so.

Ron:

So you, you guys, over six years, have 4X'd the company. Yeah. I- that's dramatic. , and it, it's from a, a- We were doing, we were doing about four million bucks ... where did you start? I don't know. Is that number public? I know you shared that number with me. I can say it. I don't care. And we, we

David:

were doing about four million bucks when we, when I got here. Okay. , and, and this year, this year, , our goal is, is 20.

Ron:

Holy cow. All right, break it down for us. Ev- you have people now, they've, they've parked their car, they're, they've now pulled over by the side of the street. And they're, , they're leaning in and they're listening. David, what's a handful, two, three things, if you could point to them, where you guys focused and those things have contributed to your ability to scale the company?

David:

So, so I think number one, you have to, you get your, you have to get your own house in order, right? You have to be buying right. You can't, you can't... You can make distributor deals, but you better have a little extra. And, and you need a buying, you need the power of a buying group. N- nobody, no matter how good a negotiator they think they are, no matter how, how, how, how much business they think they're doing, you, the power of the buying group is critical. , and, and, and they, and they're way more than just a buying group. I'm, to me, that's only 20% of the value of a buying group, is, is the programs. But it's a big deal to, to, to your, your internal, , purchasing capability. So you have to fo- you have to give them some focus, and then take advantage of the programs. I mean, that's, that's a big, that is a big deal. I think- I, I'm gonna pause

Ron:

you there, 'cause right when you and I started talking and I was asking you about your shoes, behind you, the first thing you told me is, "Ron, I buy these shoes right." Yeah. In other words, I buy them at the right price. Yeah. And I therefore I know what I can sell them at, and there, there's my profit. Like, you gotta start by buying it right. And that's funny, you're saying the same thing now about EOC. And I

David:

know it's not rocket science, but, but there's three places in business, right, that you make money. Y- it's, it's, it's on the purchase, it's cutting your expenses, right? Or it's selling it for more money. Well, our, our business is very tough to sell for more money. , the products are out there. They're, they're, they're there. They- people know what a TV sells for. They know what Sonos sells for. They know what all the, all the different things sell for. You can sell yourself and your services for more, but, but the, but the products themselves, it's, it's tough. So you better be getting that extra one, three, five, 10, 15% on the back end and figuring out how to, how to do that correctly. , take advantage of buys when you can. Know, know the right, the, the, the right pieces. Not, not, not make a little extra money in lieu of, of the performance of the product. I- it's gotta be the right product that's gotta perform correctly. It's gotta do what the client needs it to do, otherwise you're completely ... You know, m- making money means nothing, right? Right. And, and, and James' philosophy has always been, , it's not about the profit on one sale, it's about having that client be part of the EOC, , family for a long, long, long time. It's, it's the recurring stuff that comes from those clients. , that, that's, that's been his philosophy forever. And, , and we met- So that's

Ron:

the, the, the lifetime value of the customer by keeping them happy. Is there anything that, a thing or two that you guys do that really, , maybe empowers that for your

David:

team? Yes. Communication, number one. So it's, it's making sure that, , that they know when we're gonna be there, that we, we, we show up when we say we're gonna be there. We're not late for, for the time period. We're, , we're there when they need us. , if they call Wednesday a- and, and they absolutely have a problem they can't, that they can't live without getting fixed, then, then on Thursday we're gonna take care of it, if, if we can't take care of it later that day. , we're, we're going to be there to resolve that issue. And it's the same for the builders. , it doesn't matter what level that builder is on, there's always a, "We forgot to tell you, , w- we're gonna be ready for you guys on Friday," and, and, and this is Monday or Tuesday that you get this call if you're lucky. , and, and our answer isn't, "Well, we can't be there. We're booked for three weeks." Our answer is, "Okay, please limit this to as few times as possible, but, , yes, we'll take care of it." We just say yes. , and, a- and then, and then we do it. We find a way to do it. You know? We're going to make it happen. If, if we have to work Saturdays, then we work Saturdays.

Ron:

Now, for clarity, you're not Are you doing it for free, or are you doing it on a service fee contract? Oh, no. We bill for everything we do. Everything we do. So you're billing fairly, but you're, if they say, "Jump," you're saying, "How high?" Yeah. And it's a fair exchange.

David:

That's per- a perfect, perfect way to describe it. We're just gonna make We're gonna find a way to keep them happy, and that's why even the builders who we didn't have relationships with, , and that we tried to get relationships with over, over a longer period of time, even before I got here, , they're starting to come around because they see that the other guys don't necessarily show up and don't follow up with their clients. And it makes, it makes them look bad, 'cause they recommend us. Right. And then th- then they don't get the follow-up service. That's no good, right? So, , EOC focuses on that. You know, it's a huge part of what we do. We also don't take on... We don't experiment in people's houses. So we don't take on a brand or a, or a discipline, , until we know it's gonna work, until we've tested it, until w- until we're sure that, that this is gonna be okay, right? 'Cause there's a lot of hot, new things that n- aren't necessarily great. , I... The best example I can give you, , from Little Guy's days was we had Savant on display in our store for two years before we put it in somebody's house. Not because people didn't wanna have what we had, but because what we had didn't work that well. Right. And we weren't gonna put ourselves in the position of alienating a client over, over a broken product, right? Once they, once they got it together, and in today's world they're probably the best, but, but, ... And, and, and we do offer all the control systems virtually. , you know, Elan, Savant, Control4, Crestron, Q-Sys. Well, I, I was

Ron:

gonna ask you why, 'cause that, that's expensive and that's hard to do, right? It's hard to be the expert at all the- Yeah ... platforms. It's hard to be the expert at one platform. How- We do ... how do you guys manage being the expert at multiple?

David:

We, we hire people who, who are multi-disciplined. We ha- we have three or four guys who can do just about all of them. , we have some guys who specialize in one or, or, or the other. And we, , we don't wanna have all our eggs in one basket. We've seen the demise of, of, of control systems, the, the AMXs of the world and, and some others. We've seen that, we've seen that, you know, come and go. , we, we wanna make sure we can handle the, the right thing for the right person. , we don't want that to get in the way. And we want the service from the other people's jobs. We... You know, who- whatever they're, they're putting. So we'll, we'll take... We don't sell RTI Control, but we take care of RTI clients, right? So, so we'll-

David:

Interesting. Okay ...

David:

we'll, we'll take care of that stuff. We want that business. We want the system takeovers. , we wanna be the guy that they can count on and, and, and n- and they, they know we're gonna be there to take care of them going forward.

Ron:

But what about, , sales and marketing? Like, what, you 4X'd the business in six years. Maybe 5X this year. I mean, that's like a dr- you didn't double. You five... You grew four to 500%.

David:

Yeah.

Ron:

So you- So the,

David:

the, the website is a big deal. That's a huge, huge, huge part of it. Okay. Are you getting leads? Are you getting business- Yeah ... from the website? Yeah. That's, that is a big deal. We have, we have brought in some small companies and then leveraged their databases. Not, not, not that necessarily we... , although, the, the, when the person came along with it, that helped. But, but leveraging their databases and making them part of the EOC family and, and, and creating a theme and, and l- letting them know what we can do. , we've bought some that didn't do such great service and, and, and have made their clients aware of how great our service is, and now that we can take care of you in a way that we- That maybe wasn't happening so great before. , so there's a little bit of that. , the radio, the radio advertising put our name in the marketplace. Hmm. , not only with end users, but with the builders and, and, and that kind of a thing. It really put our name there so that when you cold called somebody or whatever, you... They may have some recognition of who you are, right? Yeah. Already. And that, and that goes a long way. Our email campaigns are, are great, and, , and we know the importance of it. , again, we've participated in some of yours and, and those helped us. The ve- the vendor ones are typically too broad and too general. , we're, we're more focused than, than that. Our- The

Ron:

more s- A general rule in marketing, the more segmented or, or, de- you know, to use without using fancy language. Yeah. The more specific your list is and the more tuned in your message to that particular audience. Like let's pretend you had a customer that purchased a Wi-Fi 6 access point or a Wi-Fi 5 access point for your house, if that was a thing, and then you knew who they were and that the new Wi-Fi 6 was coming out, and if they... You knew that you sold them the 5, and if you could message them that, "Hey, there's a better one, and we'd love to tell you about it," like that's gonna get more of a response every day of the week than, than a big broad statement. So

David:

it- Yeah. Our open, our opens on our e-blasts are in the 20 something percent, thir- 20- 20- 25%, 30%, , - Yeah full opens and, and click-throughs. That, that's like, I don't have to tell you, that's like crazy numbers, right? - Yeah ... we've made them part of what we do. We've made the people feel like they're part of what we do. They're not, you know... When we call and tell them we're doing something new, like we're create maintenance plans or we're creating whatever it is, they're not, they're not, "I'm not answering that. I don't wanna talk

David:

to those guys,"

David:

or whatever. They're, they're like- Would, would you,

Ron:

how much, how much of your work, David, would you say, and, , and again, don't share anything you don't feel- Yeah ... comfortable sharing with me and a few of my friends. Yeah. But, , what, what percentage of the work at EOC comes from referral? Meaning your happy customers sending you their friends and neighbors.

David:

I'd say still probably 40, 40 to 50% is, is referral business. Even if it's, it's referral and they, and they refer them to our website, right? Sure. If somebody says, "Just check out their website." I think our website is, is, really tells a good story and, and it's got a lot of depth. - Yeah ...

David:

it, it really- Where would you

David:

say the other 50% comes from? It's, it's word of mouth from, , the installers just being out there doing service work. Okay. The vendors do send us some clients, right? Right. And it's the takeovers. It's the takeover jobs. Oh, okay. Like the pe- where the other, where the... I, it's a terrible thing to say, but the, where the trunk slammer fails and doesn't- Okay. The customer-

Ron:

They're only- ... doing research- Yeah ... and they land on EOC as the answer.

David:

Yeah, that's, that's a big, big part of it. And then they ask their neighbors, right? So th- they ask their neighbors, and our truck's parked in... Our, our vehicles are a big part of our advertising campaign. Right. And they list- they have the icons on it for all the different things we do. And, and, , they used to just have a little logo on them, and then- Sure ... we turned them into bill- right, rolling billboards, right? As it should be. - Sure ... and you know, all of that makes a big difference. The commercial spots we do, like we do a restaurant or a bar or we do one of those things, those guys, you know, tell their clients, right? Th- those kind of things, all that, I guess that's still just referral, but, but it's, those kind of things make a big difference. And then the follow- What... No, go ahead. The follow-up w- with the builders, being there for the builders. , you know, we, we, we t- we call the builders all the time. We follow up with them. Even if we're not active with them on any projects right a- right now, , we, we do a lot of that stuff, a lot, a lot of builder interaction. Belong to the builders associations, you know, that kind of thing, a lan- we belong, we, we belong to a landscapers association. You know, th- those kind of things. Those things help.

David:

Oh, that's interesting. We're not

David:

great at it. We're just, we're just okay at it. But, , but those things help a lot.

Ron:

I don't think I've ever heard that before. You me- you're a member of a landscape association?

David:

Yeah, for sure. So the landscapers, the landscapers don't really wanna do low voltage, with a few exceptions. They don't really wanna do low voltage wiring and lighting and, and, and that kind of... They don't wanna do the audio stuff and the TVs. That's not what they wanna do, right? They wanna get in and out, create the landscaping and be done. And- Right ... , , and if we can partner with them and they can refer us, some of them, some of them want a little bit of, you know, m- money back. Some of them don't even want it. They just want someone that they can count on, that when they tell people, "These are the guys I use," , you know, it works that way. So we, we actually joined the landscapers association, and we go to a couple of their things a year at their, their, their big, , events, right? And we have a booth and, and, and, and, you know, expose our, excuse the expression, expose ourselves, but show, show us to, to, to those people so they can get an idea.

Ron:

Yeah. You go out there and you, you, you market your business, and it's clearly working. Yeah, that's, that's incredibly impressive. What's a, , a piece of wisdom or two that... You've already shared a bunch, but just what, what resonates with you for that business maybe that today is at that, I'm gonna say, 2 to $4 million size, and they're trying to, they aspire to one day do what you've done with many of your businesses, but lately- So under- understand, understand

David:

what growth brings. Make sure you want it. What does it bring? It, it, it brings, it brings an intense amount of work. It, you can't ask somebody else to do it, the work. You've gotta be part of it. If you're not part of it, it's, it's just not gonna happen, right? So, , build, make sure that your systems are in order, your, your, if behind the scene stuff is, is taken care of, that your, , processes are, are, are, are solid And, and then build it, , over time. Don't be afraid to hire a new employee in advance, right? Everyone always says, "I'm gonna wait till I got this much business before I bring in a new employee." Bring in the employee and get the business. That's, that's how you do it. So they're already in the loop, they already know how things work, they're already part of the process when, when, when the business starts k- kicking off, right? So if you can do that, that, that's a big deal. , , my expression that I give to these guys all the time is, , to, to, to all the people throughout the whole company is, "There's never a time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again." Just do it right the first time. Figure out what it is, take the action, and, and, and, and, and, and, and make it right. Two extra minutes on your part, 20 extra minutes on all the employees' parts saves hours of work at, at, at the back end of it or whatever, so that, that's a big deal. , but growing it is treating people right. You better treat people right. You better take care of your clients. You better make yourself aware, , o- of, of, of an unhappy client, right? And, and, and that, that really is the key. And never be afraid to pick up the phone and call an unhappy client. There's nothing better than, than resolving whatever that anxiety they have is, right? At the end of the day, we're selling TVs and speakers and lighting. We're not selling heart pumps, right? The person isn't going to die if w- if, if the thing broke. So, so how horrible can the conversation be? How bad can it be? Right. Just eat your peas first, right? Just do it. Take care of it. Eat your

Ron:

vegetables, take your medicine, run to the fire.

David:

Let's go. Let's go. All of those things. I mean, that, that is, that is, I think, , we're not afraid to do that. And empower your people to make choices. They're not always gonna be right, right? They're not always gonna be the perfect choice. And when they make, when they do something wrong or they make a mistake, so what? Analyze it, make sure it's not repeated, but, but in no way do you beat somebody up for taking some initiative and trying to do the right thing. Smart. What do you see ahead

Ron:

for '26 in the economy? Just out, out of curiosity. What was, what was '25 for you guys like, and what do you see as '26, ? So '

David:

25 was, was, was growth again. It was b- good, real good, good growth for us. '26 has started out that way, , to make our number with no problem. , I do th- I do see a little bit of slowdown. I, I, I wanna leave politics out of this but I do, I do- Well, there's a lot of

Ron:

political stuff happening, clearly Yeah. I don't see how- The midterm coming up in the fall ...

David:

I, I, I don't, I don't, it is affecting people, right? The, the good news is, , wealthy people are, are always wealthy. With rare exception, they're always going to be wealthy. So if you're dealing with a big chunk of that clientele, , you're okay. , but when you're trying to be as big as we are and do from simple to the extreme, then, then some of that middle business goes away. Some of that middle business shrinks a little bit. Yeah. , the, the, you know, the entry level TV and, and the other thing, , there was an... You know, it's a small part of our business, but it is part of our business. , selling just a couple of Sonos pieces to somebody, that's okay. We're happy to do that. Having a showroom, that's the other thing I sh- I should have said previously, sorry. Having a showroom is critical because it shows your clients that, that, that you're not fly by night, that you're not... That, that you're really into it, that you're, that you're, , dedicated to what you're doing. , it shows the vendors that, that, that you're dedicated to it and it gives them an opportunity to showcase their wares. , so us and, and our, and the EOC showroom is a big deal for us. , so that, that is an important part of it as well. I, I, I, I think it's critical to being, , to, to, to that real growth. Now, there's exceptions to the rules. There's some guys who do it without, but I don't, I don't know how.

Ron:

There, there's a, a, two big product categories where there seems to be a lot of buzz, , maybe for the last couple of years. , you know, one, video walls. Yeah. What, what, what, what does that mean for you guys? Are you guys seeing that as an accelerating category? Yeah. Yeah, for

David:

sure. , if nothing else, it generates some excitement, right? It generates some... It, it does generate some... It's a, it's a cool, it's got a wow factor. , and I, I don't think it's really ready for prime time in most cases for most people's budgets. I mean, we're putting them in. Just too expensive

Ron:

for- But, , it's still,

David:

it's still crazy expensive for something good. Right. There's some terrible ones out there that, that, that, that, that kind of go below the level of performance that we're willing to put into people's homes. - Would you be willing to share at least what you think the good ones are? Not we, we don't need to disparage- Yeah. I mean, obviously on the high end you got Sony and Samsung. , Planar may be... They're, they're, they're around the high end of, of, of some of the extreme, , the extreme models. , Just Video Walls I think is, is figured it out and, and has created product a- at a relatively good entry level and, and more to come. And then, and then a step above that so you can give somebody a more premium item without being totally insane. , so I think, , JBW or Just Video Walls, I think, I think they, they, they've really done a good job. I really like, I r- really like their stuff. We use a couple of other ones. We've put in some other smaller companies', , video walls. You know, three years from now I worry about am I gonna get one of those panels from those guys? Am I gonna get a replacement panel that's completely different, now I'm sticking in something different to, to, to this guy's video wall? I'm not worried about Planar or Samsung or Sony or, or Just, Just Video Wall. I think they're big enough that that's not an issue. But some of these other smaller ones that have come along that are kind of cheaper quality and entry level, I, I, that does make me- Nervous. , , scared. A little scared, to be honest. - You think,

Ron:

, do you forecast that ultimately the tech- technology keeps getting better and the prices keep dropping? Yeah, I just don't know

David:

how low it can go. I, I just don't know that you can get that performance. I mean, look at, look at the quality of today's TVs. The, the new Sony, , and there's some Samsung I guess, new Sony Mini LED TV. I just saw one last week. They're fantastic. Oh my God. Yeah. I, I, I've n- I, it's, it's, it's insane. I mean, I sold nothing but plasma for so long because of the performance of it. , and it took me a long time to accept LED and OLED, , finally. Yeah. But, but, but this new Mini RGB- RGB is stunning ... it's, it's insane. Yeah. It's so real. It's, it's, it's not like looking out the window. It's like lifting the window and looking outside.

Ron:

That's what I thought when I looked at it. I saw the Sony demo and I was like, it looks almost three-dimensional because- It's- ... the picture was so crisp- It's, it's- ... and the blacks were

David:

so black ... it's, it's insane. It's, it's- Yeah ... so good. So good. Yeah. I had seen it in Japan a year and a half, two years ago. I'd s- I'd seen prototypes and, and whatever it was and, and, and, and there was still, still some kinks being worked out of whatever it is. Well, the production product, the actual product that's hitting the marketplace is, is absolutely ridiculous. It's not often that I, I'd say to a client, like four months ago, five months ago, I said, you know, we were talking about buying a new TV, and this is very rare for a salesperson to say, but , , you really ought to hang out for this one because it's going to be pretty amazing. You know, and I'll call you when they come in and they're available. But, but, but as long as the budget isn't beyond... And they're expensive now, right? They're not cheap. But, but they're, but as long as the budget isn't, , i- it's within the budget that you're considering, I really- Yeah ... I'd feel bad selling you the old one when you could buy this one or whatever.

David:

Yeah, no. They're amazing. I agree. All right, so the

David:

other- So that's a big deal ... what? Go ahead. That's a big deal for sure.

Ron:

Yeah. I, I agree. So video walls and the RGB TVs. Yeah. Yeah. The RGB TVs are, are gonna be big. And then, , lighting and sh- I would say lighting, , as a category, particularly fixtures, is that, , is that an important category for you guys? Mm-hmm. And if so, kinda where- It's huge ... does that fit in your, your approach to, , your business and getting into projects early? Well, two things. How do you view

David:

that?

David:

It's a huge part of our growth process. , it's a huge part of our business. We've, we've just finally gotten, , with Lutron, where we're... I forgot, what, is it Black Diamond? We're, we're, we're like over that next hump in, in, in, in, in, not just in pricing, but in getting taken care of and in getting the things we need. We, we, we did it slow with lighting. Yeah. We waited and we brought in some experts from other companies and, and, and guys, , who we really felt could, could, could deliver the, the, , what our clients need. And, , so we took it slow. , but, but now we're full speed ahead. , and, and it's a huge part of what we do. We're to the point where we just have lighting jobs- It's just lighting Yeah There is no AV. There's nothing but lighting. And in our- Do you have that in your showroom on display, David? Do you have just- We do. We, we created a, a small lighting lab within our, , conference room and we've- Okay ... we've put the landscape lighting out and now we're, we're just getting ready to build out phase two of our showroom, which probably not gonna happen until first part of next year, completion till first part of next year. But, , that's even got more of it in there or whatever. So we have Ketra and we have all the things that, that, that should be out, and we show people good lighting and bad lighting, and good tape lighting and bad tape lighting, and we do all the things that, you know, that should, , be part of that. , it's I'd say 80% done. , we're almost finished with it, but w- we still got a little more to do. So that is a huge thing. Blinds, motorized window treatments is a, is a big part of what we're doing. , so that's a huge place for growth. We have growth in a place that is, is almost unspeakable to most dealers, and that is golf simulators. So we do- I've been hearing

Ron:

that a lot lately, actually. Like, that's a popping category for a lot of folks

David:

We do three to five golf sims a month, and we do- Wow ... we do, , we're gonna double it this year. And we do, , , we don't do one of the big company s- golf simulators, right? Okay. Not that we don't have any relationship with any of them, but they're not really what we're focused on. We create the sim. So we buy the right, , launch monitor. , we buy that, which, which is like buying Apple, by the way. There's no margin in it at all. It doesn't matter. But, but you buy the right one of those, and then we build the walls and the turf and the, the screen. We ... I mean, we buy that product and we put it all together as a package, and we're totally focused on it. We have some PGA relationships. We have some new guys that we just brought, , acquired and brought in who were doing a bunch of them on their own and with installs and the rest. We install them, we sell them, we design them. , we, we answer questions about them all the time. It is a big deal. , if you, if you're in the Chicagoland area and you, and you Google search, you know, golf simulators, you're gonna get EOC, right? It's, it ... We're, we're ... A lot of times it's just answering questions, right? At the- Yeah ... in the initial stages. , we also feel like it's the right client, right? So it's, it, it may be a little shorter margin than, than we, than we prefer, but, but the fact is it's the right client, and then somewhere along the line they're gonna use us for other stuff as well. - Yes ... and then it also differentiates us from the other CI guys in the, in the marketplace who can do a bunch of things but they, they, they have a deal with one of the, you know, the HD Golfs or the Full Tilt or, or whatever, whatever they are that, that, that are out there, , , who, who don't have the client as their number one focus or the dealer as their number one focus. It's just taking the client and having it be theirs, you know, that kind of thing. So, um, w- we're in a really good spot with that. And again, we specialize. We have- A couple of guys who really focus on that and, and, and, and pay attention to it. So, and it's become more than just golf sims, by the way. It's, it's laser ranges for target shooting. , , it's, you know, it is... It... The kids' games things are, are okay. They're not great. That, that hasn't evolved like the golf sim part of it has. But the, , but the laser range shooting is, is a big part of it. , there's a lot of people with guns, , a lot of people who wanna be able to have the fun of target practice and shooting without having a gun and, and you have a, what, holding in your hand what feels like a real gun or, or, or a machine gun or whatever it is, and you get to shoot targets and have fun and it, it's, it's crazy. It shoots gas and you, and you shoot at the s- screen just... It's awesome. I don't think

Ron:

I've even seen that. Oh, yeah. Is it like you're, you're s- within the golf sim and you're doing it? Yeah. Or are you talking

David:

about, like, a full range? No, you're in the golf sim. You're, you're right out s- maybe not standing right where the, where you would normally swing. You're back farther, but it uses the, the monitor, the launch monitor, and it, and it, and it, it uses, , sensors and r- records it just like anything else or whatever, so.

Ron:

And it sees the pellet or whatever

David:

shooting out of the gun? It's, it's not really a pellet. It's, it's just a laser. It's a beam.

David:

Oh, okay. And, and they're gas

David:

powered. And so, so you put in the little canister and you shoot and- You're getting a recoil and everything. Yeah, you get the recoil. You get the feel. It's the weight. It is an AK or a, or a, or a Glock. - Everybody

Ron:

wants to own a AK and just, you know- It's the AK ... blast it in their basement. It's the AK.

David:

It's the ultimate. But, but, , I mean, who knows? Maybe it's good for the world where people get, they can get out their hostilities on a, on a gas one. Well, yeah,

Ron:

I'd rather them shoot a, you know, n- no bullets than bullets. Yeah. Let's put it that

David:

way. Yes. That's funny. I'm, I'm on the Chris Rock theory. A- Make bullets $5,000 each and we'll have a lot less drive-bys.

Ron:

We'll have a lot... Amen. Amen. , David, where... , we're, we're, we're wrapping up here. Yeah. , w- where can folks that wanna meet you in person, where are they gonna next see you? Are you gonna be out and about at any industry events coming up or for the second half of this year? Yeah,

David:

well, serious- yeah. The CEDIA, for sure. I'm, I'm, I'm at all the pro source events. , and, and seriously, anyone, anytime, you can email This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. So email anytime. I'm happy to answer any questions. If I can't answer the question, I can maybe find you someone who can, so I'm, I'm, I'm willing to do that. , , the website is eocaudio.com, as you can see below. , check out our website. You can fill out a form there if you want to, but y- you can just email me direct and, and, and I'll be glad, glad to help, , with anything you're doing. I, I cannot recommend enough, , that you find a, finding a buying group that, that you fit in. Whether, whether, , no matter how small you are. If it's pro source and, and eventually you work your way to be a power member or a bigger member of pro source, that's great. But, but, but give the people of pro source a call. Call me or email me and I will be glad to- , get somebody in touch with you to explain it. , you won't have any problem meeting the dues. You, you'll save that much in, in, in, in purchases alone. , and y- and more important is the collaboration. It's the interaction with people. It's, it's, it's learning from other people's mistakes. , sitting in a room, , full of other dealers, being part of a small group of dealers who meet once a month and, and just talk about their common experiences and common needs and, and, and problems, so. Y- I, I- Love it ... I can't not recommend that enough.

Ron:

David, I'm putting on the, the, the screen here. I- Perfect ... is this the office line or is this your cell

David:

or whichever one? Yeah, that's the office line. You can call that one, call that line anytime Monday through Friday, , or leave a message anytime, and I will, I, I will get back to you. That's perfect.

Ron:

All right. That number, for our listeners, 630-386-6266, and, , ask for the one and only David Wexler. Yeah.

David:

Stop by the showroom anytime too. If you're in Chicago, come on by and we'll give you a tour of the showroom and, , and we'll s- spend a little bit of time with you. Love it.

Ron:

Yeah. David, thank you for joining us on this episode of Automation Unplugged, man. It was awesome having you here. Well, thank you for the opportunity, and

David:

for those of you who don't do their own websites and their own stuff, , seriously, One Firefly.

Ron:

Oh, all right. I'll slip you 25, 20 bucks later for that one. No, it's all right. You

David:

guys do good work. You're good for the c- this is the industry,

Ron:

man. You're good for the industry. I appreciate that, David. David, thanks again for coming on. Thanks, buddy. All right.

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Ron Callis is the CEO of One Firefly, LLC, a digital marketing agency based out of South Florida and creator of Automation Unplugged. Founded in 2007, One Firefly has quickly became the leading marketing firm specializing in the integrated technology and security space. The One Firefly team work hard to create innovative solutions to help Integrators boost their online presence, such as the elite website solution, Mercury Pro.

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Resources and links from the interview:

Website: https://www.eocaudio.com/

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