This week's episode of Automation Unplugged features our host Ron Callis interviewing Richard Sasson. Recorded live on Wednesday, December 20th at 12:00 pm EST.

About Richard Sasson

Richard is an industry veteran with more than 35 years of audiovisual experience. He has worked at Crestron Electronics for 23 years in various roles, and is currently the Global Director Pro Community.

In his current role, he works to expand the Crestron community through engaging with multiple channels and helping to guide customers to successful implementations of Crestron technology. He is working with AVIXA, BICSI, CEDIA, NSCA and more to help foster audiovisual industry training for the next generation of professionals. He helped to create the Crestron Services Providers program and worked to ensure they have the proper tools to support Crestron clients. Additionally, he proudly oversees the Crestron Masters event.

Interview Recap

• His diverse career at Crestron Electronics, focusing on his various roles and significant contributions to the company and the custom electronics industry.
• The vital role of training the next generation of Audiovisual Industry professionals focusing on developing their skills and knowledge to meet the industry's evolving demands.
• The expected impact of AI on the industry and a unique perspective on the potential advancements and challenges AI might bring to the industry.
• And insights from his experience as a balloon pilot at the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade for more than 30 years.

SEE ALSO: CEO of Garrett Integrated Systems Shares Lessons Learned From Executing an Acquisition Strategy for Growth

Transcript

Ron:

Hello, hello. Ron Callis here with another episode of Automation Unplugged. Today is Wednesday, December 20th. It is a couple of minutes after 12 o'clock. So we're coming to you on our normal day, a little bit earlier. And that was just a matter of, again, balancing our guest’s schedule and my own. So I appreciate all of you that are watching live or watching on replay. Obviously, it is the holiday season, and it's no different here at One Firefly. And that means everyone's in a festive spirit. If you're in video screen shares, which I know we are, all day long, every day, here at One Firefly, it means there's probably lots of fireplaces and snow in the virtual backgrounds that are being presented behind you and your teammates. And hopefully you all have some time away scheduled with friends and family here in the coming days. And I know for me personally, I'm going to be stepping away between Christmas and New Year's, actually in a way that I haven't done for all the years of running One Firefly. So actually going to step away a little bit and attempt to not check phones and emails, you know, 300 times a day like I do today, and maybe only check 30 times a day. We'll see how that goes. Maybe no times a day. If my wife and son are successful, as they should be, then it won't happen. And we'll focus on what's most important, which is our families. And now's a good time to do that. In terms of today's guests, guest, singular, I've known this fella for many years, back to the very beginning of my career. If you're in the CI space, which if you're watching or listening to this show, then that means you, then you probably have heard of this small brand named Crestron. And if you know Crestron, then you certainly know this person because he's been one of the leaders and figureheads helping run many, many different functions within that business for many decades. So without further ado, and here for show 256, I'd love to introduce you all to Rich Sasson. And let me go ahead and bring Rich in. We'll talk about his roles and responsibilities, and kind of who he is. By the way, he's done many of the jobs at Crestron over the years. And he certainly has an awfully big role today that he's filling on a global scale for Crestron. So let me bring in Rich and see how he's doing. Hey, Rich, how are you?

Richard:

Great, Ron. Thank you for inviting me onto your show. I'm really excited about this. 256 shows. That's really an amazing feat. So congratulations, Ron, and thank you so much for inviting me here.

Ron:

My pleasure. You know, I...when I initially launched this show and this concept, I was reading a lot of the industry publications, the media in our industry available to us. And what I thought was missing, because I thought the publications do a lot really great, right? Showcasing businesses and business strategies and successful projects. And certainly give manufacturers a voice to put out their message as well. But I thought what might be helpful, it was a theory, is that all these crazy characters like yourself that make up this industry, there wasn't really a great forum to learn about where everyone comes from and then bring it to the present, what they think about current events. So, it was a twinkle in my eye back in 2017, back when, that was at the birth, if we go back in time, like ‘16 or so, like that was the birth of streaming video and social media. I wanna say it launched in Facebook, maybe in ‘16 at some point. And then it moved to where, you know, normies like myself were allowed to stream. I said, well great, I want to interview people and put it out there in the stream and see if anyone pays attention. So I appreciate the compliment, the good words, and thanks for joining us here for sure. So Rich, for those that are not aware, I'm going to state your title: Global Director Pro Community. But I'm also going to read some of the other titles you've had at Crestron. And I also acknowledge you had a life before Crestron. Many may not even know that.

Richard:

I did.

Ron:

But you, at Crestron, have overseen customer support, technical support, system engineering, advanced technical support, quality engineering, fusion support, all of training, technical documentation, European operations, and global support departments at Crestron. So holy moly, I'd love you to kind of speak to that, maybe breadth of career. You've stayed and you've done a lot. And then what that current role, Global Director Pro Community, what is that? What does that mean?

Richard:

Absolutely. Well, Ron, thank you for that lovely introduction. It's a pleasure to be able to speak with you and the audience. You know, I have been really incredibly fortunate with my career at Crestron, and I have to thank George Feldstein, Randy Klein, Fred Bargetzi as the people who brought me into the organization. And it's kind of a funny story, actually. It goes back 23 plus years, I interviewed with George, Randy and Fred at the same time. And back then I was working for an integrator of Crestron and I was the Head of Engineering for one of our integrators. And they had reached out to me and they had asked me if I'd be interested in speaking with Randy about an opportunity at the company. And I went, OK. And I met with Randy, who sat at his desk. Fred sat next to me. And then George stood in the hallway at the door during the interview. And it was a very interesting conversation with the three of them. Because I learned a lot about the company, learned a lot about what they do and who they were. And they learned a lot about me. And the really nice thing about it was I learned something incredible about that company, which is they made decisions right away. And Crestron offered me a job right then and there. And I said, I appreciated that. And I thanked them. And I said, you know what? I don't make immediate reaction decisions like that. I will get back to you in a week. And we did. Between that week, I went out with a couple of colleagues who are colleagues of mine at Crestron now and worked at the company then to find out more insight. And it turned out to be a really great decision. I obviously accepted the job. And I was ironically hired to run the programming department, which was called systems engineering. But as I was offered the position and started, they said, not only are you going to run the programming, you're going to run customer support and technical support as well. So I had Abby Davis reporting to me. I had, at the time, the technical support team running for me. And we began to work. Build a team. I learned a lot about Crestron when I started. How this incredible company, these incredible people, processes and things that we were able to create. When I showed up back then, they didn't actually have a case tracking system. They used notebooks and pens and papers right, and they recorded everybody's information that way and followed up from it. I said, how many calls and cases do we take on a daily basis? No one could answer that, so I sat down, I wrote an access database, launched it, and we began to track cases and we uncovered that within a month we had 20,000 cases. You know how we figured that one out? Because access crashed. We couldn't add anything else back then. So we began to create our own call log. We had our team write an actual call log, and we launched that and used that until 2008. But what was really cool about it is the fact that we began to get insight on what people were calling about. How we really could do the most for our customers. There was an incredible team back then of engineers and customer support folks who really took the time, and they still do, to listen to the customers, to understand their needs, and to provide them with solutions to the challenges they were having. And it was phenomenal to work with these incredible folks who are so passionate. And what amazes me is the amount of people that are still at the company. Folks like Ray Coneys, Abby Davis, Maria Pierce, and so many more who've been there for over 27, 30 years, 33 years. Roseanne Lang, Tara Rice, just to name a few. Those folks are the nucleus, the care and the passion behind them, and Ron, you know Ray. You've met Ray many times. He is so passionate about everything we do. It's incredible. As is everyone there. And that's what makes Crestron so successful, is it's not a company. It's a family business. And when George passed and Randy left and Fred passed, you know what? Dan is an amazing person. Dan is truly keeping the family moving forward, the organization, the care for the employees. You know, he takes every decision we make and looks at it from a perspective of: it's my company, but the people in my company are part of my family. And one of the things that I learned that I truly loved about Crestron is something George told me when he hired me, when they hired me. If he hires me, it is his responsibility to make me successful. But anyone I hire, it is my responsibility to make the person I hire successful. And that really is an insight into how we look at people who come to work with Crestron. And I say come to work with, not for, because it is not that you are working for a company. It is that you are part of a team that really builds trust amongst ourselves. We build that trust also with our customers. And that's an important aspect of everything we want to do. And I've had the pleasure, as my career evolved, I created our quality engineering department. We didn't have one when I got there. It was QA'd by the engineers. I said, well, what about a customer experience? I'm not an engineer. I'm just a customer who wants to think of it from: how easy is it to use? Engineers are incredibly smart, but they think about an engineering perspective. I think of it, I'm a typical, not the sharpest guy in the world. Can I figure out how to make it work? If I have to think too hard, I may want to do something else. And so we would look at things differently. And so we created our quality engineering department. We handed that off as we grew and built. You know, we were able to expand. I took on the role of running our training departments. I handed that off a couple of times and got back a few times, which is kind of cool. I then went and had the opportunity to work with our trade show team. In fact, at one point I was running our trade show, our training, our technical support, our customer support, our advanced support. And working with our global teams to standardize procedures.

Ron:

And did you sleep at all while you were busy running all of those different elements?

Richard:

The fact that my wife hasn't divorced me after 30 years is pretty impressive.

Ron:

So either she wanted you out of the house or you were really good at delegating work and, you know, having your team help you accomplish these goals.

Richard:

Yeah. Well, the crazy part is when my wife and I first met, I was working in live entertainment and she was working. We both had so many different jobs at that time. The fact that we were able to actually have time for a family was mind boggling because working 16 to 20 hours a day was, for me, normal for many, many years. It's only recently that I've come to appreciate having a life.

Ron:

A more normal work schedule.

Richard:

A more normal life, which is ironic because in 2019, I had the opportunity to work with our team in Europe, which was an incredible, phenomenal option. We opened up Crestron Europe, not as a distributor, but as a Crestron company. And I relocated to Belgium. I lived in Leuven in Belgium, worked with our team in Rijmenam. We have phenomenal, beyond phenomenal, people there from Annalise Kempart, who runs everything over there today. Kenneth Noyens, who runs the technical support operations. Stijn Ooms, who is an engineer extraordinaire and product manager. Ronnie Vandenboom, who is an incredible technical sales engineer, designs and helps our customers with creating quotes and system designs. Phenomenal, incredible people. What was an amazing opportunity for me there was I was no longer the person who was doing the heavy lifting but really helping the team over there to restructure and focus and become successful as they are. The the energy over there was phenomenal. What was concerning to me, looking back a little bit, the entire team literally and legitimately could have been my children from an age perspective. That means I've gotten way too old on my side. But at the same time, their energy, their passion, their care is phenomenal. And they are doing some phenomenal things over there. Like they're opening a new headquarters in Europe in Mechelen. They're moving to this beautiful space right across from a train station in Mechelen, Belgium. Absolutely gorgeous. I believe they move January 8th, is the opening day. I'm looking forward to paying them a visit right after ISE in Barcelona and to go take a look at the new space and see how they're doing over there. It's phenomenal. They're an amazing group over there. And, you know, I've got to tell you, it has just been my career, I've had the opportunity and the pleasure of working with our folks around the world. I worked with our teams in the U.S. Amazing people. We opened up operations in Chicago, California, Florida, Texas, outside of San Francisco. It really was just truly the opportunities, the people, the care has been phenomenal. And I just cannot say enough about how the people care about our customers and care for each other. It really is an amazing place to be. It's crazy. There are characters. It's not like things are perfect. Don't kid yourself.

Ron:

It's not perfect anywhere. I learned that. Hopefully, everyone listening knows that. It's not perfect anywhere.

Richard:

It's completely dysfunctional in a wonderful way. What makes them so incredible is the care for each other. And I've had the opportunity to work with our teams in Singapore, in Hong Kong, in Macau, China, and spent a ton of time over there in Australia, in India, in Israel, in Mexico. It's just a phenomenal international global company. And everywhere I have had the opportunity and pleasure of being and meeting with people, it's been phenomenal. And now I'm in the role of director. Pro Community Global Director for the marketing department. I've ended up in marketing. Why? Because I wanted to do something different. And the opportunities to take the AV industry into a professional career that you don't stumble into is critical. And I know there's so many phenomenal initiatives. You know, the folks over at East University have been doing it, and George and Richard, they're incredible, what they're doing over there. They are, what happened?

Ron:

Oh, I'm here.

Richard:

Oh, sorry. Screen went blank.

Ron:

No, I hear you and see you. Everything's good.

Richard:

Everything went blank. It's back. It's back. So the folks over at Pace are doing phenomenal stuff. There are people and there are programs starting at grassroots foundations to make AV a professional career you get educated on. You know, it's ironic. You think about it. You know, there are training programs for electricians, for security system installers, for HVAC installers. But really, the idea of an AV industry education program hasn't taken hold and it's just starting to. There's a program that we're working with in Warren High School in California, we're working with Houston Community College, Salt Lake City Community College, the folks at Sheffield Institute. Lincoln Technical Institute is taking their EEST program - Electronic Systems Technician - and incorporating Crestron as part of their entire training program nationally. So there's phenomenal things taking place throughout our industry. We've partnered closely with Avixa, with NSCA, with CEDIA, to really help to bring education of AV as a career and a profession to the next generation. You know, our industry is struggling. It is not able to get the talent they need quickly and easily. And I have yet to meet someone who has argued with me, we didn't stumble into a career in AV. We may have been doing it since junior high school, pushing the AV cart around proverbially, but AV is so much more than that. You know, everywhere we go, AV exists. From digital signage to conference rooms to anywhere you see AV. Moving images or static images in displays, in signage, everywhere you go, audio, video, it exists, right? And AV, audio visual is the solution that provides the content. Audio video is the creation of the content, audio visual is the display of the content, right, you visualize, you listen to it, and everywhere there's AV. From the retail environments, from live entertainment, from corporations, to schools, to the government, where is there not AV?

Ron:

I just want to throw a comment there. Earlier this year, One Firefly launched a business around helping the industry hire, and we did that 100% driven out of the feedback of our customers. We have hundreds of clients that we work with in a marketing capacity, and they're often telling us their number one bottleneck to growth is people, the lack of people, the lack of talent. And you know, the two major roles that we see hiring for, and we're talking to lots of folks around the country around what their needs are, and it's, you know, of course everyone wants great sales people. And who doesn't, I'll take a few, please call us. And they also want technicians, and so I'm going to ask a very specific question. So there's this terminology that I see bounced around at every integrator we talk to. And there's, I want a Technician I, I want a Technician II, and I want a Technician III. And I ask the question, what is your definition of a Technician I and a Technician II and a Technician III? It seems to me, and I'm preparing with this question - I may ask a question that is super silly, Rich, and I maybe should already know the answer to this, but it seems to me that every business I'm talking to has a different definition, their definition of what a Technician I, Technician II, and Technician III is. It doesn't appear obvious to me that there's ubiquity or common language around what even the most basic definition of that technician is. And of course, maybe not uniformity in how they might ultimately be classified as a Technician I, II, or III, whether it be via Avixa or CEDIA or BICSI, or you name whatever the different organizations are. It's like the Wild West. There's not a question there. Maybe just like, do you agree with that? Or is there a standard? And it's just that everyone doesn't know what that standard is? And if not, how do we get towards a standard?

Richard:

You know, it's a great question because I think, you know, the fun thing about standards are there are a lot of them. And I don't think we have one in our industry regarding what a Technician I, II, or III is. I look at it from a different perspective, which is number of years in your career, right? You know, people are like, well, why can't I just become a certified programmer and just take the exam? Well, because it's more than being a certified technician or programmer or designer, I took an exam, see, I know what I'm doing. No, you need real world experience, okay? You need to understand what it is like to be in the field as a technician, to work with the different trades, to understand what root cause analysis are for why you might be having an issue. You and I were chatting a little bit earlier. I did a project for Crestron in Macau, China. And they were having all sorts of weird things going on. They couldn't figure out what it was. So I literally went out there and spent two weeks with the team over there doing a deep dive and investigation. And what we found was the Cat5 cable was not Cat5 cable. It was telephone wire. What we found was that the telephone wire was immersed in water. And when we pulled it out, it had been in so much water for so long that the wire itself had been corroded. And the sheathing had fallen off. So you literally saw the oxidation and things were shorting amongst themselves.

Ron:

That might have been a small component of the problem.

Richard:

Correct. But it was inside of the conduit and not visibly there. The wire was supposed to have been replaced. It had not been. So it was those types of scenarios that you have to have a critical analysis. And that's where you got to look at Technician I, II, and III. What does that really mean? Is it number of years on a job? Is it like the electrical contracting trade? How do you go from an apprentice to a journeyman and go beyond that? And there's a lot to be said about really establishing that within our industry to help us become more effective in those standards in terms of what a job description is. I know that NSCA has been trying to do it, Avixa has been trying to do it, CEDIA, they're all trying to do these things. And one of the things that we've been talking to all of them about is let's work together as an industry amongst your associations, but you know what? Coming together and they all wanna do it. They all have agreed that we have a huge overlap. We need to help each other. We need to be successful. And they don't want to fight with each other. In fact, one of the sessions I met with CEDIA and Avixa back at CEDIA in Denver this year. We have agreed that the training that a CEDIA does and Avixa does, 95% is the same. Well, let's get that last 5% and really sync them up so that ultimately, if you take the CEDIA training or you take the Avixa training, guess what. You come out of it with the information you need to be successful. And they both want to integrate their training programs with other schools, and they've partnered with the Pace Universities, the Warren High Schools, the Salt Lake City Community Colleges. They want to be part of the solution, which is fantastic. The teams there are really making a big difference, and they want to move it forward. The challenge is, they are focused on the careers of people who are already in the industry. What I want to begin to do is focus on the careers of those who get to start. And get that feeder program coming in.

Ron:

That's what the industry doesn't have, right? It's everybody moving around and shuffling around. And even a recruiter or, and we are a recruiting business, or a hiring business like Amplify People, or an integrator posting a job on a job board or a resume or putting out a job description or job post, all that's happening is people are shifting around. It's the, what is not happening is the new blood coming into the industry. And it's a bottleneck. The industry is starving for oxygen and it affects everyone. The dealers can't grow. The manufacturers can't grow. The industry cannot reach its full potential. I mean, without this problem being solved, this seems to me like the biggest problem globally for this industry to solve is how to get and professionalize the process of bringing in new blood.

Richard:

It is a major challenge, and the good news is people want to step up to change that. And now what we've got to do is reach that next generation. What makes what we do exciting, right? Why is it that people want to be stagehands or they want to work in live entertainment? Well, guess what? So many people in our industry came from that world because they didn't want to work those crazy hours. But that's part of what makes AV exciting. It's not about being able to just build a conference room and put the AV in it or a training room. It's about how that all plays together. And there's so much to understand from audio and video, acoustics. There really is a phenomenal amount of education from being a Level I Technician, all the way to being a full design engineer and everything in between, that the opportunity to educate that next generation and get them excited about what we do, is there. And whether it's a trade school or a community college, a college program, or an apprenticeship, any of those things need to be leveraged, and even high school level, to get people excited as to what is the need for people in our industry. There was an article I read a few years ago. Our median age is like 47 years old. That's not a young median age. So that means there's a lot of people, a lot older than that, and not enough people at the younger side coming in. How do we change that? How do we reach those audiences? You know, and that's going to come from industry veterans. That's going to come from integrators. That's going to come from generating a demand and making it really evident to the next generation that there is a career here that you don't stumble into, but also making sure that there are education programs for them to learn. My degree is in technical theater design and management. And I have a master's in broadcasting and communications. Okay, I could tie that all saying, you know what? I learned a hell of a lot about AV in all of those times, right? Because I learned acoustics. I learned speaker placement. I learned lighting. I learned video design. All that was done in those programs, but it wasn't called AV. It's called theater. It's called broadcasting, okay? No one looks at it as an AV education. There really is a need for an AV education in our market. Commercial integrators need it. The residential integrators need it. This is not a, oh, it would be really nice for us to have thing. This is a need. The demand is there. The industry is poised to make over $300 billion. It's a B, not an M.

Ron:

That's a big number.

Richard:

And that's from Avixa, by the way. That's what they announced at InfoComm in June of this year. They anticipate within the next 10 years it's growing to over $400 billion. That means there's an incredible opportunity for people who want careers in our industry. And maybe they start out as a technician. They may end up as a designer. They may end up as a salesperson. You know, they can evolve. And that's one of the really amazing things about our industry is how many people have started off pulling wire that may now be a CEO of an integration firm.

Ron:

Yeah.

Richard:

That says a lot.

Ron:

No, it's awesome. Rich, I have so many things I want to dig in here with you, and I’m mindful that time is finite. So I'm going to jump to a couple of things that are top of mind for me. I'm going to tell a story, a very quick story. When I joined Crestron in 2003...in that first year, I remember I solicited a relationship with an integrator out of Miami, brought them to New Jersey. I remember we curated a meeting with both Fred and George. And George did not know me. He was involved on the day I was interviewed with Bill Schafer. I have some funny stories from that, but we'll tell those at another time. But I remember George was so excited about Crestron and about the way that he could help this integrator. He jumped onto his conference room table. and literally laid in front of the integrator on the conference room table and like, struck a pose, and started talking about how he could help them grow their business. And it was, like, totally crazy, totally irrational. And that business said, clearly we need to do business with Crestron. Because this crazy, passionate, you know, engineer, mad scientist is, you know, he won their hearts. So that's like one of my George stories. What's just something that sticks out to you? What's a George story that you have?

Richard:

I have so many George stories, but I think one of my favorite ones is back in 2000, I think it was ‘05 or maybe ‘07. We had Masters just in Crestron. We actually were a small enough group, it was within the training center of 15 Volvo. And George came in. What are you guys doing today? Well, we're running the Masters training. Oh, great. And he came in with two bags. And he walks into the meeting room. All right, I'm sorry to interrupt, but I need to know what you guys think. And he just literally starts handing out handheld emotes. And I want your input. What do you guys think? And everybody starts talking and they give him their feedback. And some people like some things. They like other things. And it was back then, it was a small enough group that they knew George and George knew them and they could communicate, literally give him detailed input. And he took it and he goes, you're all wrong. He took the stuff that he ran out, came back to engineering, starts yelling at engineering. You people don't know what you're doing. This is their feedback. How can you do that? And they changed the design of their remotes based on the feedback from the community. And George would do things like that all the time. And he was passionate. He cared. He was just, he was an enigma. And, you know, I jokingly call George, Randy and Fred, the father, the son and the Holy Ghost. You can figure out who's going to be which, because they would play off each other. And it was really an amazing experience watching each of them with their strengths and playing off of each other and really shaping a company to be now over a billion dollars. It's an amazing place. They're crazy, but George is awesome. They were all amazing individuals.

Ron:

I'm going to tell a quick Fred story. So when I left Crestron in ‘07, and I was on a high, I'd been doing great in sales, good, you know, top of my territory, I think took, you know, some of the team by surprise when I moved on. But I moved on to start this, the same business I'm here today interviewing you from, and that's from One Firefly. And I had gone to ISE, and there was the whole Crestron crew and I was still trying to ride the coattails of Crestron and get my little engineering business off the ground. And Fred had pulled me aside and he just told me that he was proud of me for what I had done. And that he was rooting for me, and that he had all of his best wishes for my success and the success of what we were trying to do for the industry. And at that very challenging time, this is, you got to remember, this is like ‘08, ‘09, ‘10, the economy was not exactly terribly fun to be launching a business in. It was very tough for our industry during those years. And that was formative for me because I was trying to get my feet on the ground and build something in arguably the worst of times. And those words of encouragement actually meant the world to me. It was just very confidence building. There was no grudge, no frustrations or animosity. It was all positive. And when I think of Fred, that's what I think of, just his spirit. And what is a Fred-ism? I know anyone that's ever known or been around Fred has so many fond memories. But anything that sticks out to you that you just want to share kind of in this forum, something that, you know, a neat memory?

Richard:

Fred and I used to meet every Wednesday morning for coffee. And we would spend a half an hour, one-on-one. I wasn't working for Fred at the time. For a period of time, I did work for Fred. But we literally met for half an hour every Wednesday morning. And we would talk about everything from the company to life, to family, to politics. And it was just, he had such incredible insight on everything that we did. And he really….what I learned from him was how he could impact people and how I could learn to listen. What Fred would always do that was so incredible was he could listen to what people had to say and he would then show them how he could provide them the answer to their problem. And it was incredible because he was always supportive. It was very rare for him to get angry, even when you could tell he wanted to be angry. And he just was someone that was incredibly intelligent, charming. And, you know, you talk about 2008. I remember George and Fred getting up on a scissor lift, and George was up there in the 22 link up in the warehouse on a scissor lift telling everyone what was going on with the economy that was going bad and that we were going to double down. We invested in the company heavily. We hired people during 2008, 2009, that insanity. And George and Fred truthfully brought to market digital media and they changed the way Crestron and the industry transported audio and video technology. And Fred had the foresight to think about that, actually prior to that, but they had been planning it, but he knew what he wanted to do. He knew how to get there. And it was truly an incredible effort between Fred, and his vision with George, and the engineering team to pull it all together. George and Fred, he had a way of just making people want to work for him and help him succeed and help us succeed. He was just a phenomenal individual and he's missed. Personally, not just professionally.

Ron:

No, personally, I completely agree. I just thought I'd have you on. I'd speak in a few words about these beloved characters that are no longer with us. I thought that would be fun. Big picture, just kind of sideways comment here. The world's been taken by storm with AI over the last 12 months, particularly with ChatGPT, LLMs, thousands of new pieces of software coming out. And it's likely going to change a lot of the way knowledge workers do stuff. What do you personally think about what's going on? And how do you feel about the shock and awe of what's happening in society with this tech? And then maybe at a closer level, what does it mean for Crestron? And what does it mean for dealers? So a few more questions, but I'm just kidding. We'll start there.

Richard:

Yeah. You know I think AI has had an impact on everyone whether they realize it or not. Everything from as you start typing in your word document where it starts giving you text upfront and suggestions as to what you're going to write, to how we're going to look at audio visual integrations, camera tracking, people tracking, people counting, anticipating needs, space scheduling. There are so many different applications that artificial intelligence is going to ultimately help us with. At the same time, we have to leverage the technology in a careful manner. It's a new technology. And with every new technology, there are pros and cons. And it's really taking the time to understand where that technology is going to affect us, how we're going to utilize it and leverage it. It's a tool, right? And with any tool, you can choose what you want to do with it, how you want to be successful with it. I started my career doing carpentry. So I could choose to use a hammer, a nail gun to put something together. Well, I'm probably not going to use a 16 penny nail gun to do some finished trim work. It's the same concept. What AI tool do you need to use? Where does it apply? Why do you want to use it? And what are you trying to accomplish? There is a fear, and if you've listened to some of the articles and some of the creators who've been involved with AI, that if it's not regulated, it can get out of control. And I think that is a fair concern. But at the same time, we also have to look at: how do we leverage the tool set to be successful? I know we're working on some really great technology with AI that will be coming out soon, and we're going to announce that.

Ron:

You don't want to drop that news here on show 256 of Automation Unplugged.

Richard:

I'm just saying there's some cool stuff coming and I'm very excited about it. And I think it's going to have a big impact on what people are doing. I think there are...still, however, the need for regular people who code to create programs. And I think that's one of the things that, as an industry, programmers are still incredibly relevant. Technicians are relevant. Programmers are relevant. Designers are relevant. Yes, companies want to simplify their rooms. And then as soon as they start to, quote, “standardize their rooms,” they realize, you know what? We still need that custom integration solution. We can't commoditize everything. So AI will help programmers to write code. At the same time, programmers have to be very careful about that because if you ask an AI platform to write code for you, well, where is it referencing and where is it taking it from? It's not something new. It's going to be taking it from things that are already there. Now, it may plagiarize something because AI can do that. Also, it will then take what you create and potentially then post it back out into the world of AI. So you have to understand that anything that you ask AI to do, you cannot, as these courts have now ruled for music and art, you can't copyright it. So it's no longer your intellectual property. That's a really important thing when you create who owns the source code. Now you're going to think about these things as you leverage the tool. What is that impact in anything we create? Do I own all of it or is it now public domain? Those are the things that AI starts to play into as we begin to leverage that tool to help create code. Or if you have an AI, you can even ask an AI, hey, can you just create a scope of work for me for a conference room? Okay, great. AI wrote the scope of work for you. Wonderful. That's not your scope of work anymore. That is now available for everyone else as well. So these are the kind of things you have to understand the tools and how AI works today and what it's going to look like down the line. And how is it that we can leverage it effectively and still have ownership of what we create?

Ron:

If you were to, I'm going to ask you to do something impossible and you could tell me, no, I won't do it. 10 years from now, what does programming a Crestron system look like?

Richard:

That's a great question. I think all of our programmers today would like SIMPL Windows to continue on for the next hundred years. We created SIMPL Windows in 1997. The fact that that platform is still running and still as powerful as it is today is phenomenal. In fact, 95% of all programs out there are running SIMPL Windows. Only 5% use C-Sharp. As we evolve, that needs to change. The technology is going to evolve. I think SIMPL Windows will evolve. Is it going to go away anytime soon? No. But will there be a newer platform coming, I'm presuming 10 years from now, there has to be. Of course, if you had asked me that 10 years ago, I would have said by now we have a new platform. So, okay.

Ron:

There was this little COVID thing in between. So, you know, it threw a few bumps in the road.

Richard:

I think programmers will continue to remain relevant. I think it's going to evolve as to what they're going to create. They're not going to be doing the simple hang and bang solutions. That's not for them. But those custom network operation centers, like we work with our friends on the Mars Rover project in their lab, in the JT Labs scenario, you've got that type of technology, the Pentagon, NORAD, those types of really incredibly unique technologies, you know, the high-end integrated boardrooms, those things are not going to go away.

Ron:

Oh, Rich just froze, but I'm going to make a positive assumption that he comes back. Let's see if he comes back. Ladies and gentlemen, this happens every now and again. We shall see if Rich rejoins us. There he is. I figured you were choosing to freeze to take a break for a minute.

Richard:

It's called technology. If technology works, none of us would need to be employed.

Ron:

Exactly. My favorite is when I'm doing a demo with a client. It happens to anyone that's out there in technical sales. In our case, I could be demoing a website. You notice the moment I'm going to go to a particular site to demo it, it will be literally the 20 seconds of that 30-day month that that site was down. It always times it, like wait, is Ron about to demo me? All right, I'm going to go down. Like, ah, darn you, technology.

Richard:

It's true.

Richard:

I joke, I say if technology worked, I'd be out of a job because, you know, technology's flawed because technology was invented by people, and people are flawed. Hence, AI is flawed.

Ron:

Yes. So I was saying 10 years from now, and I heard you say it seems obvious that the big custom, crazy, fancy, detailed things clearly have humans. I'll share a story from my family, and that is my son's in the ninth grade, and he was at his high school. He goes to a college prep school, and they allow them curriculum specialties. And he was going down a path of software development and engineering. And based on all the buzz out in the world around AI that he's consumed, he came to my wife and I and said, I don't understand why I would continue to learn how to write code if the AI is going to be writing the code. And is this the place for me to spend my time and energy from a career standpoint? And honestly, I couldn't say definitely yes. And I'm not even saying that that's good or bad. I think that this technology is changing, and I think jobs and job functions, particularly in software development, will evolve. I think new types of jobs relating to the configuration or design or QC of software would continue. But as you said, I see there'd be a lot of tools in the toolbox being pulled out that probably have AI engines at varying levels of sophistication, which theoretically means the world probably 10 years from now needs a lot less software developers. But maybe it needs other job titles that are still dealing with AI and software, but it's just a different job, at least as we envision it today. Do you think I'm off base? Am I giving my son bad parenting, Rich?

Richard:

You know what? I think your son's going to have to choose what he wants to do. And no matter what we want to tell him to do, they're going to do it themselves.

Ron:

There's no doubt. Amen.

Richard:

I think that the needs for programmers will continue. And I think that a lot of the programmers, truthfully, are going to become AI developers. And I think, I was actually watching an article today, reading an article today, that talked about how the need for programmers will continue to grow. But the programs are going to be focused more on developing AI content and developing how AI becomes a more powerful tool. If you look at Moore's law of how technology evolves, we are accelerating at a rate that is faster than anyone had anticipated. You know, the next generation of AI 5.0, I think is going to be out before you know it, early next year, which is pretty mind-boggling when you think about it. They've gone from 3 to 3.5 to 4 and then 5 in such a short timeframe. And it's going to continue to evolve and continue to move forward. So the question becomes, you still need people to do it. I'm not convinced that AI is going to take over the world yet. But 10 years from now, it'll be very different. Things are going to be different, but the jobs are still there. The need for people to do things is still going to be there. I don't see that going away. I think it's going to evolve. I think programmers are going to be different. I think coding is going to be different. But ultimately, you still need that human touch. You still need that ability to truly understand the needs of a customer and how to create an experience that is better than what a machine can do.

Ron:

No, it makes sense. Rich, I know in March of this year, not this year, 2024, so we're three months away, you have Crestron Masters. I'm just looking at my sheet of notes here, kindly supplied by Deborah and Rich with your support in advance of the call. You have Masters and you also have the Crestron Modern Work Summit. Anything you can speak about in terms of what some of the messages that can be talked about or the themes of what you're seeing for 2024 for the CSP network?

Richard:

Absolutely. For the CSPs, for our programming community, for our design community, the Masters 2024 event, it's a three-day event. And what we're doing this year is a little bit different. What the design community and the programming community courses are, are in sync with each other. The goal is at the end of the week, the designers and the programmers are leaving with code and designs that allow them to start with a baseline that they can use in their projects moving forward. The courses will be 15-minute presentations, 45-minute lab, 15-minute presentation, 45-minute lab within 90-minute blocks, or roughly, maybe more than less time. Some of them are going to be longer sessions, but the idea is the courses are going to be great, hands-on, very code-driven for the programmers and very design-driven for the design community to create something that they can use moving forward and that they don't have to really just say, oh, I took the class. It's really walking out of those courses with platforms that they can build off of for their careers. The Modern Work Summit is completely different. This is a one-day event and this is a really great event and we're very excited about this. We are bringing in speakers from Microsoft, from Intel, futurists to talk about how technology in the workplace is changing. Everything from artificial intelligence to conferencing technology, how they play together. And we have presenters who are integrators. We have presenters who are industry partners and other manufacturers that are going to be talking with the audience, with panels, about how the technology evolves. And what we've done this year is we have the Master Sales Associates. That is now the Modern Work Summit as well. In fact, the Master Sales Associates should not only come and attend to get credit, they should bring their customers with them. They want to attend this event and talk about technology. And it's not about being educated on how to sell because I don't need to teach a salesperson how to sell. What I want to offer to our sales community and to our customers is, where's technology going? What do we need to think about for our requirements moving forward? How do we evolve the needs of the user in the space? In fact, we've got Carnegie Mellon, Don Millay, speaking with us, how he writes his plan for utilizations of his spaces and refreshed times. So he's going to be part of that. So not only are we talking future and talking about AI, we're talking real world applications. What do we need to do to better plan for the next generation of technology in our spaces, from education to government to corporate environments? This is what the Modern Work Summit brings. So it's really geared for Master Sales Associates, but also for end users to come together, to listen, to share ideas, to understand where the technology is going and what they should be thinking about over the next two to five years. Our goal is not to have you walk out and say, oh, I took a sales training class from Crestron. I'm going to go buy a control processor. No, our goal is to talk about: where's technology going? How do we evolve the experience of the user to be more successful in their environment?

Ron:

That makes sense. Here at One Firefly, I know we are already in discussion and collaboration with some folks at Crestron because we're shooting some new training videos for Crestron Home OS 4. But I'm also going to admit there's a lot about OS 4 that I simply do not know. And maybe folks tuned in do not know. What can you tell us? When is OS 4 out? And it is just for the home side, the resi side of the business, correct?

Richard:

Officially, it's for the resi side of the business, but I also know commercial folks who are using it in spaces.

Ron:

They might sneak it into some smaller applications.

Richard:

It's an incredibly powerful configuration platform. In fact, I'm running my house on professional OS 4. I love it. It is due to release in mid-January. But you know what? We have, I'll be honest, we've delayed the release a couple of times. Why? Because we don't want our customers to find a buggy solution. We want them to see the next generation and be successful with it. And the UI is so much cleaner. It's so much more readable and easier to use. I've been, much to my wife's chagrin, I keep adding more features, doing more things because it's just a better experience in 4 than 3. And 3 is phenomenal. But 4 is just, we're taking it to the next level. I really like the UI. It's crisp. It's clean. It is nice. Images are much more scalable, rather than just a bar, you fill the screen. It really is a sleek, sexy way to run your home from an iPad, an iPhone, the touchscreens, my keypads, you know, features and functions. I love my Quick Actions. So, you know, I can turn on my music in the whole house with one button press, open my garage, close my garage, whatever I need to do, turn on the lights. The Quick Actions are phenomenal. Everything in OS 4 and the feedback you're now getting in the indicators is amazing. I wish I had prepped. I would have put that up on a website.

Ron:

No, no, that's okay. The OS 4 upgrade, does that require a consumer to have a new processor?

Richard:

Nope. Here's the really cool thing. They're running an MC4R or CP4R. All they need to do is allow for the update. And their integrator can help them. They don't even have to do it right away. It's not forced. It's not required. They can do it as they're ready. And I would recommend for the integrators, you know what? Upgrade your systems in your offices. Test it. Make sure it's working. And then roll it out to your customers. It's going to be a great experience. I know a lot of the folks that are on beta right now, they're providing phenomenal feedback to engineering. And I really do think that this brings it to the next generation and it's gonna be an even better experience for the homeowners. And I'm looking forward to what OS 4 does in the residential market, and it gives them great opportunities. The good news is we're starting to see some really great improvements in that technology and I think it's been wonderful.

Ron:

This might be totally in the weeds, but I'm just curious. An integrator, it's a business model question. If an integrator has deployed X number of OS 3 systems, and they're out there and installed, and theoretically every job forward, they might adopt and say it's OS 4. But to go back to OS 3s and upgrade them to OS 4, is there a business model where that makes sense? Is that something that you think will happen? Or will it happen randomly? I guess they obviously have a lot more installed than are immediately going to happen in the next 12 months, probably. And so what happens there?

Richard:

You asked a really great question, because now you got to sit there and go, what is my business model? Do I want to do a recurring revenue where I'm providing updates and services as an integrator that I can charge for? Right. You have a problem. I'm there right away. I'm giving you a maintenance contract. And as upgrades come out, I'm providing that as part of your maintenance contract. Or am I in a scenario where, you know what? I've created a relationship with my homeowner. I'm going to give them an update, no charge. These are business models that have to be chosen by the integrator channel. And I think in today's world, truthfully, there are even people who are doing hardware as a service. OK, so there are many different approaches, and each one has its merits and each one has its challenges. It's up to the integrators to choose how they're going to run their business to be successful. Personally, you know, as a consumer, I prefer the I'm in, I'm done, I bought it. If I want to pay for a maintenance contract, I will. but I'm not a good consumer because I'm the guy who fixes it all himself.

Ron:

I thought that it was interesting from just a problem to solve. I did not see that answer immediately. And you went right there, that it's a brilliant, and now obvious that you've said it, opportunity for dealers to have clients in service and maintenance agreements and A, for them to have a benefit of having RMR and for the consumer to have a benefit of getting their software updated with amazing upgrades such as OS 4, everybody would win. Why would a dealer not want to do that? And now you're in front of the customer and they might need to add stuff. They might want to replace stuff. I mean, all the other upgrade opportunities that happen in front of a customer. And like I have always said in sales, all a salesperson ever should want is a reason to have a conversation. I mean, what a wonderful reason. I want to update your software. What does it cost? Nothing. You're on a maintenance plan with us. Let us make your system better. And what sort of goodwill and positive vibes are going to come from that? I mean, that's a really neat idea. It's a really neat idea. I'm going to totally embarrass you now, Rich, or I'm not going to embarrass you and I'm going to take you to your happy place. I'll let you decide. But we did get our hands on some images and Deborah, very kind on my team, put these in a slideshow for me. And I see you here in a white suit. So for our folks that are tuned into the podcast, I've got Rich and he's got a green hat on and he's got gloves and a white suit and a whistle. And he's got Ronald McDonald floating over his head. What, what do we got going on here?

Richard:

So this was last year, actually. And I have been part of the Macy's Thanksgiving Day balloon crew since 1986. And I am in charge of inflation on 81st Street, where we inflate seven to eight large balloons and a bunch of medium and small balloons. And then I pilot, which is what I'm doing here on that previous image. I pilot a balloon down the streets of New York. I literally walk backwards for three miles. This is a great shot. This was actually taken by a police officer. I gave him my phone so he could get a photo of me.

Ron:

That's a great shot.

Richard:

Yeah, nice. He was a great guy. And I have been doing this for….I've been a pilot for 37 years. I teach people how to inflate the balloons. That is my colleagues and my team leaders on the street with me. Ken Nielsen, who is the Dean Stevens and John Miller. He's a head of engineering for an alternative energy corporation. He does amazing stuff. But the teams that we work with, we have, inflation crews. We have handlers. Each balloon gets about 80 to 100 handlers on it. And we have to guide them walking down the streets of New York. And the picture you saw earlier with me in front of the balloon is another one you got there. This was two years ago where we literally were stopped right before 42nd Street. And what we were doing there, you'll notice that Papa Smurf is getting some sun. And the reason we stopped there is because the sun heats him up a little bit. And so I try to stop in a couple of key locations because as balloons go down the route, they begin to get soft. Well, I want them to be nice and tight for going in camera. So I try to stop them at the sunny sections to get them nice and tight. And then we bring them into 34th street on camera. And, you know, we've, I've got stories. You could do a whole podcast on parade stories I've had, Ron.

Ron:

It's amazing, I'm going to ask you a terrible question, have you ever had a balloon fly away?

Richard:

Okay, so I'm gonna tell you. So in the 20s when they started doing the balloons, they used to let them go. They had no way to deflate them. Now we have a whole process to deflate them, but back in the, I think it was the late 80s, we had a Macy's star and back then there were only four handling lines, now they have eight. And it was a very windy day and the handlers let go of the star. And we were at deflation. And I looked up and I turned to the gentleman at the time, God rest his soul, Jimmy Arnold. I said, Jimmy, we've got one flying away. And he looks up and he pulls out his camera and he takes it, and he sees Macy's star flying South at about 3000 feet going downtown. And then he had to place a call to the NYPD, and they had to place a call to the FAA to let them know that a balloon had gotten away.

Ron:

Oh my gosh. We got an angry bird here. We got Papa Smurf. I have a video here. Let's see if I can get it. I don't know if my technology will behave. Let's see here.

Richard:

So this is really cool. This is a Minion. That, by the way, is not a person. That is an animatronic that was kicking at the bottom there. And we launched that last year. You're seeing that at a test flight we did at the Meadowlands. And so we actually do some incredible training for the parade. When I started doing this, my training was one hour. We went to a warehouse in Hoboken and they showed us the basics and that was it. Now we do training in June, September, October. We do a big balloon fest of all the brand new balloons in November. I have the pleasure of working with the studio folks on test flights we do on the brand new balloons. I've been inside of them. I've repaired them. I've worked very closely with them on their procedures and processes. This to me is sheer insanity that I love and I'm planning on doing it until I can physically no longer do it. My buddy Dan and I have been doing it together since ‘86. And we said, all right, we're going to try to get to 50 parades. I'm at 38. If we can get to 50 parades and then maybe we'll make 60.

Ron:

They might give you a plaque for that. You know, you get to 50, you might, maybe a plaque. What do you think?

Richard:

I got a jacket for 20. I got a jacket for 30. So let's see what we get for 40 and for 50.

Ron:

Yeah. Yeah, maybe a watch or a placard in store. What's the life cycle of a vendor or a sponsor to conceive the idea for a balloon for it to ultimately make it where you're leading it down 34th Street?

Richard:

Ideally, it's nine months, but I've seen them do it in under two. Yeah. The life cycle of the balloon is six years.

Ron:

Okay. Okay.

Richard:

They used to be longer. They used to be made out of rubber. They were much heavier. Now they're made out of a lighter fabric, but their life cycle is about six years.

Ron:

This is a total nerdy engineering question. What's the buoyancy, i.e., how much pull force up is on one of these balloons?

Richard:

We try to be at about 325 pounds of lift. OK, which is like, oh, well, that's not that much. Well, that's a lot of lift. Three hundred twenty five pounds is a lot of lift, especially when it gets windy because that's static lift. So what we do during the first inflation of the balloon, we fill it with helium and it goes up and we literally have all the handlers let go. And there's a gauge they attach to it. It's attached to a tractor that says, OK, what's the total lift of the balloon. And we try to get it on the major ones, by the way. The smaller ones are obviously less. It's about 3 to 325 pounds.

Ron:

And that's just pure volume minus the mass of the balloon material, right? I mean, the buoyancy based on the volume minus what the thing weighs would equate to that.

Richard:

And these are heavy.

Ron:

Yeah, I can imagine. That's amazing. The average person needs to hold about 10 to 15 pounds of pull as they go down the parade route.

Ron:

Wow. Are they fatigued at the end of a full day?

Richard:

Everybody's exhausted by the end, but they're so happy. It's incredible. It is an adrenaline rush that is unmatched.

Ron:

That's amazing. Well, Rich, thank you so kindly for joining me here on show 256. It's been awesome to have you on and for you to share some of your stories. And for anyone that wants to get in touch directly with you to learn about how to get involved with Macy's balloons or activities or anything related to Crestron or anything relating to the education initiatives that you are now captaining globally, where would you send them? Best place to reach me is at rsasson at crestron.com, which is: R-S-A-S-S-O-N at C-R-E-S-T-R-O-N dot com. And that is the best and easiest way to reach me. Unfortunately, Ron, like you, I check my email all the time, you know, but I will tell you, go to Europe. Don't check your email. Turn off. The rates are expensive. So, you know, only do it when you have Wi-Fi and maybe only do it at the end of the day or at the beginning of the day and just go enjoy.

Ron:

My family deserves that I stop checking.

Richard:

Yeah. You go enjoy. Have fun. Enjoy the food and the beer.

Ron:

Yes. And I have a customer out of California that gave me the whole history of the wiener schnitzel. And he educated me that the wiener schnitzel is the schnitzel from Vienna. And, you know, I'm going to check that out. And I'll now enjoy it that much more as I'm studying it now that I know a little bit of the history.

Richard:

Well, Ron, thank you so much for inviting me on the podcast. I really appreciate it. And I hope you have a wonderful holiday and vacation.

Ron:

Thank you, my friend. I will see you soon. Hopefully, I'll see you at March at Masters. We'll see if we can align schedules.

Richard:

Looking forward to it.

Ron:

Thanks, Rich. All right, folks, there you have it. Rich Sasson, he is, let me get the title correct. He is Global Director Pro Community amongst many responsibilities, it sounds like he has there at Crestron. He's a fixture of Crestron and frankly, a fixture of the global programming community and CSP community, which of course involves all the consultants and designers around the world that are designing these technologies. He did it so nonchalantly, naming NORAD or some of these amazing institutions or not even institutions, but government installations and entertainment and education and all of these amazing places this technology goes. Both Crestron gear and all the ancillary other pieces of bits and technology that go into it. And it's also fascinating to me when you think about this technology that goes in, say, to a big installation today. Well, the reality is it had to be specced and designed, in most cases, years ago. And so what he and many of you tuning in today, particularly that have longer life cycle projects, I mean, it's a real responsibility to try to predict the future and what are going to be the needs of users of this technology, both in commercial applications and residential, years down the road. And it sounds like a lot of that invention and brainstorming and reading the future, predicting the future, sounds like a lot of that's going to be a big part of Rich's life, particularly as it relates to Masters in that future workplace conference. So on that note, this is our last show. This is our last show of the year. So we're going to, we're going to end the year at 256. I got a thumbs up on my screen over here from Deborah. She's like, yep, this is the last show of the year. And, but we will be reconvening. We already have a nice guest schedule for Q1 2024. Hard to believe we're almost here at 2024. And, so I just want to wish you all a very happy and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year and Happy Hanukkah and whatever holiday or religion you practice. Enjoy the end of year here. Enjoy your family. Enjoy your friends. And I know I'm ready for a little break and a little rest and relaxation. And I look forward to seeing you all in the new year. So for now, I'm going to say goodbye, but I'll see you soon. Thanks, everybody. Be well.

SHOW NOTES:

Richard is an industry veteran with more than 35 years of audiovisual experience. He has worked at Crestron Electronics for 23 years in various roles, and is currently the Global Director Pro Community.

In his current role, he works to expand the Crestron community through engaging with multiple channels and helping to guide customers to successful implementations of Crestron technology. He is working with AVIXA, BICSI, CEDIA, NSCA and more to help foster audiovisual industry training for the next generation of professionals. He helped to create the Crestron Services Providers program and worked to ensure they have the proper tools to support Crestron clients. Additionally, he proudly oversees the Crestron Masters event.

Ron Callis is the CEO of One Firefly, LLC, a digital marketing agency based out of South Florida and creator of Automation Unplugged. Founded in 2007, One Firefly has quickly became the leading marketing firm specializing in the integrated technology and security space. The One Firefly team work hard to create innovative solutions to help Integrators boost their online presence, such as the elite website solution, Mercury Pro.

Resources and links from the interview:

• Crestron Electronics Webpage
• Crestron Electronics LinkedIn page
• Richard Sasson LinkedIn Profile