This week's episode of Automation Unplugged features our host Ron Callis interviewing Clinton Muntean. Recorded live on Monday, October 30th, 2023, at 12:30 pm EST.

About Clinton Muntean

Clinton has over 25 years of sales and management experience after graduating from Full Sail University with a degree in recording engineering. In 2000, Clinton joined Mainline as a sales representative, becoming the firm’s top producer during his first 18 months with the firm.

He was made a partner a year later, promoted to Vice President of Sales in 2004, and went on to become the President of Mainline after purchasing the firm in 2005. Today Mainline Marketing is one of the leading AV rep firms in the country.

Based in Orlando, Florida, they have been connecting the companies who make exceptional audio-visual equipment with the integrators and end customers since 1987.

Interview Recap

• Clinton’s career journey in the technology industry, starting in audio post-production engineering, moving into sales, and eventually becoming owner and president of Mainline Marketing.
• His mindset of out-servicing the competition
• Market conditions during the pandemic, and predictions for what the economic landscape will look like in 2024

SEE ALSO: Home Automation Podcast Episode #251 An Industry Q&A with Xavier Adechy

Transcript

Ron:

Hello, hello. Ron Callis here with another episode of Automation Unplugged. Today is Monday, October 30th. It is a little bit after 12:30 p.m.. We are here the day before Halloween. I should have, I should have worn a Halloween costume. Clinton and I didn't get the memo there. Clinton, of course, is our guest that we're gonna be bringing on here in just a moment. But I am freshly back from a little bit of travel. And a couple of weeks ago, I was out at the Azione Conference that was out in Nashville. And then for the last week or so, I was out in Europe actually celebrating my 20th wedding anniversary with my beautiful bride, Danielle. And we did just get back last night and jumping right into things this morning. And in terms of scheduling, now was the time. Today's the day to do this interview with Clinton. He's a busy fella, as am I. And Monday seemed to be the best day for us to get this in. So here we are. We are live for, let's see, what is this? This is show number 252 of Automation Unplugged. And my guest today is Clinton. I'm actually gonna, I should have clarified this right before I went live, but I'll do it here and then he'll correct me if I mess it up. But Muntean, President of Mainline Marketing, and they are a commercial and pro rep agency, one of the largest in the state of Florida. And we're gonna be talking to Clinton here in just a moment. I actually got to meet Clinton. I think we met him at an NSCA event earlier this year. And we're actually doing a few things with him. And he's got a fascinating background and just really a wonderful business. And I thought that all of you would really appreciate learning about his background and what he's got going on. Super smart guy, running a great business and well respected nationally. So here you go. Let's go ahead and bring in Mr. Clinton. And let's say hello. Clinton, how are you, sir?

Clinton:

Good. How are you? Good to see you.

Ron:

I am good. Happy Monday. You got anything special planned for Halloween?

Clinton:

Just, you know, we do the same thing every year. Well, at least the past few years since the pandemic, there's a neighborhood adjacent to mine. Our neighborhood is, I just heard yesterday, in the top five for trick-or-treating. But because it's so crazy, we actually leave our neighborhood and go to my friend's neighborhood because it's a little more chill. So I've got an 11-year-old, so we're gonna be, they do like a community pizza party, and then everybody goes trick-or-treating, and then we'll hang out for a little bit. But being as it's a school night, you know, we'll be back a little, you know, at a reasonable time.

Ron:

Are you gonna dress up, Clinton?

Clinton:

I am, I am. I have my kangol hat and my Adidas tracksuit, big gold chain. I happened to go to a '80s Halloween party, like a benefit concert just recently. So I'm going to reuse that.

Ron:

Recycling the costume from that event.

Clinton:

Yeah, yeah.

Ron:

That sounds awesome. Well, for those in our audience that may not be fully aware of you and the business that you're running, why don't you bring us up to speed? Tell us a little bit about Mainline Marketing.

Clinton:

Sure. So we're a manufacturer's representative. We work with some of the largest manufacturers in the AV industry. We've been working in this industry as a rep firm since 1987. Now, I wasn't there then. I came on in 2000, but I didn't start the company. So, you know, our territory is the state of Florida, and in some cases with most of our brands, also the Caribbean and Puerto Rico. So, yeah, it's our job to basically build these brands and represent them in the way of, you know, sales, marketing, support, and, you know, basically develop business here for them.

Ron:

What type of lines are you guys carrying? And what's the area of, I guess, coverage? Are you covering all lines for the entire state of Florida? Or just kind of, maybe you don't have to go too specific. But how would you describe that?

Clinton:

Well, everything we do is territorial. So we represent all of our brands in the state of Florida for sure. So some of them allow us to represent them in Puerto Rico and the Caribbean as well. But yeah, so you know I think it's okay to say, but we represent Shure in the microphone category. And of course, you know as a rep firm, many people may not know this, but we can't rep another microphone, right? So we are the factory. We are the factory sales and marketing team in Florida for sure. And so you know from time to time, there can be a little overlap because a lot of manufacturers make a lot of things. But for the most part, we have a product in just about every category, right? So in AV, so we have a mixing console line, it's Allen and Heath. And then for projection and video walls, we have Barco. So we have Kramer for control and video distribution, SKV for cases. So we have 16 different lines that we represent currently. And anybody's who's interested, they can find them on our website.

Ron:

How big is the sales team or how do you structure the company?

Clinton:

So we have four, well, five, if you include me, five salespeople, and we kind of split up the salespeople to retail and pro. So retail, pro and sorry, systems. So systems integration. So systems integration is the largest part of our business. And so we have, in South Florida, we have a gentleman that does South Florida for just systems integration. But then we also have another gentleman that does retail and pro. And the difference is pro are like your production companies or anything performance-based, maybe a house of worship company that works in the house of worship. He manages the accounts and the end users in that house of worship theater production company like Live Performance. And then retail stores like Guitar Center, Sam Ash, and independent stores. Whereas the systems integration team is focused mainly on systems integrators that are doing conference rooms, hospitals, cruise ships, big projects, stadiums. So we have two people in South Florida. We have two people in central Florida, and one of those goes up to North Florida because it's a smaller market. And then I stay connected with most of the key accounts. I don't do the day-to-day management, but they do, but I work with them on those accounts. And then we have two engineers on staff. Oh, sorry, fire truck.

Ron:

Fire truck driving by.

Clinton:

Yeah, so we have two engineers on staff as well to support our customers. And then we have a marketer, somebody that runs all of our marketing and they work with your team and another firm. And then we have a customer service team, which consists of three people. So we're, what are we, 11, 11 people?

Ron:

That sounds about right.

Clinton:

Yeah.

Ron:

Well, Clinton, take us into your background as far back as you're willing to go. Again, we always love to hear the backstories of what were you doing back when that ultimately led you to running this business today?

Clinton:

Well, I mean...

Ron:

Take us back in time.

Clinton:

We can go way back. So this is a fun fact. Most people, because I don't sound like it, most people don't know that I was born in the UK. And to British parents, so, well, one, my dad was actually Irish, but he lived in Britain. So I was born there. I moved to the US when I was 19. Now, I'll explain the accent.

Ron:

I don't hear the accent.

Clinton:

Yeah, so my mother remarried when I was three to an American. So my theory is, I lost my accent after about four years. So my theory is that growing up, listening to that in the house since I was three, that once I moved here, I just kind of lost it.

Ron:

Could you go to England and pick it back up? Is it there to resurface?

Clinton:

Maybe after a few beers or so. It comes out a little bit. I've been there for a week. So it can, it can. I think what normally happens, people say it comes back, but I think what it is, it's the terminology, right? Like phrases and terminology. You start rolling back into those when you're back home, you know? And so, you know, they speak a little differently over there. So I moved here when I was 19, but even prior to that, you know, I've always had this interest in music. And, you know, I fiddled around with the guitar, but my sister was really the musician. And I was always into the technology. And I would record her playing or just, you know, mess with my dad. He had a reel to reel, and I used to like to mess around recording, doing live recording, or even overdubbing and mashing songs together. And I think at the time, well, I know, at the time I didn't know that was a job. Like there were jobs, you know, maybe I was just naive or young or a little both, but it just didn't dawn on me. And then when I became a grownup, I don't know, I wasn't interested in going to college at the time. And I did some college classes, and you know I was going into sort of the medical track and I didn't love it. And I just couldn't find my spot. And so I ended up getting in sales.

Ron:

And where were you living, Clinton? What region? Were you in Florida?

Clinton:

Yeah, this is, yeah, so a little bit of this was happening in England, you know, deciding not to go to college and getting into sales. But yeah, that kind of carried over. I've lived in Florida pretty much the whole time I've been here in the U.S. I did live in New York for two years, but followed a girl up there, came back. But for the most part, the 30 plus years I've been in the US now, it's Florida. So yeah, so just always this interest in music and didn't know I could do it. And it wasn't until years later I'd messed around, gone to a couple of different colleges, didn't finish any of them. And I think it was my sister. She was of college age because she's six years younger than me. And she decides that she does want to go into the music business. And so she finds this school called Full Sail University here in Winter Park and decides to go. So I went and did the tour with her and I immediately decided, I wish this was around. And it was around. I just didn't know. So she went, I went a year later, she went, and then I saved up some cash, and I went a year later. And so that's kind of how I got in, is through that.

Ron:

Now, for those listening that don't know what Full Sail is, what is Full Sail? I mean, I'm in Florida, and I've heard of Full Sail for the last couple of decades, but there might be others that aren't familiar.

Clinton:

Yeah, so I mean, they've changed a lot too over the past 20, 30 years, but they are, I'm gonna say, a university for digital media, which includes, well, not even just digital, but film, recording, post-production, gaming now, show production. And then they also have business degrees now, too, music business and film business. So you can get bachelors and masters degrees as well. So we went there and that's kind of what opened me up to, okay, you know, I can work in this industry.

Ron:

Did you and your sister study the same stuff?

Clinton:

We did, we both did the audio program to start, specifically recording. They were smaller back then, had less programs. And there was film, I think there was digital media, film, recording, and that might have been it. That might have been it. I think gaming came later. So we both did, she did recording, I did recording, but she decided to do another program. So she did another program right after, and she did film. So she thought she was going to record bands, and she ended up loving film and post-production and became a video editor. To this day, at this television out of Los Angeles. And then I did something similar. I thought I was going to record music. And I went there and decided I liked audio post-production. That was where I really found that my creative, you know the creative side of me, was happiest. And so I kind of sort of pushed the music a little away and kind of went down that track. And you know I looked for opportunities when I graduated to follow that path.

Ron:

Where'd you go from there?

Clinton:

Well then, so immediately I was going, I think I'd met my current wife, Jen, hopefully my last wife. Yeah I met Jen there, or while I was at school. I didn't meet her there, but I met her at school. So we planned, she's from Germany. I'm from England. We planned that we were going to go and do a Europe trip right after graduation. So I had lined up just an internship at the school so that when I came back from the trip, I had something. And so I did that, and it was supposed to be for, I think, six to eight weeks. And you know I did so well there they just kept re-upping me until finally somebody said, you got to get this guy out of here. We got to give other people a chance, right? So I remember I was in my instructor's office, and he just called up a buddy of his at a place called Soundelux, which is a very well-known post-production studio. They had a location in LA and a location in Orlando. They did all the theme park stuff here, Islands of Adventure at Universal. They did big movies like "Pocahontas" and "Braveheart" and so many, so many more. But he called up his buddy there. Coincidentally, his name was Clint. And he's like, "Hey, Clint, do you need an intern?" He's like, "Well, I'm not in charge of the interns." So no. But right at that moment, there was a guy walking by his edit bay named Pete. And he said, "Hey, Pete, you need an intern." And Pete was senior enough where he had never had a personal intern, but he's like, "You know what, I could use one." And so I became Pete's intern, which really upset the other interns that were working in the tape room because I got to work with Pete directly.

Ron:

Wow.

Clinton:

Yeah, so it's just, you know, like, I tell people like, you know, you make your own luck, right? So that was luck, but had I not worked hard, that guy wouldn't have made the phone call, right? So, you know, so when I go back and talk to young people, I tell that story because I think it's so important that, you know, that guy, Steve, his name was Steve Yost, he made that call to Clint, right? And had I just been maybe a mediocre or a less than mediocre intern, maybe he wouldn't have made that call. They would have just set me off on my way, right? So yeah, so I got a job at Soundelux as an intern. And then I think within six months, they hired me on staff, which is unheard of at that place. It was a small place. Very few people, but they liked me enough to where they brought me on. But unfortunately, about a year later, they were going through, bigger companies were acquiring studios around the country. And I saw the writing on the wall that my job was at risk. But it was also a good thing, because it turns out I had this dream that I'm going to go and do this thing, and I got it done, and I went there, and it turns out that I really didn't enjoy it. Like, I was sitting in a dark room all day for 10 hours a day, cutting sound effects. And it's a great, glamorous gig, right? Like, I work in a post-production studio. I cut sound effects for the theme parks at the time or movies.

Ron:

Sounds like a sexy gig.

Clinton:

It is. My friends thought it was super cool, right? But I would come home with headaches, you know, just staring at that screen all day, you know, kind of full circle. That's kind of what I do now. Spreadsheets. But there was this guy that used to come in and I think his name might have been Gil. He worked for Digidesign, so Abbott owns them now. But Digidesign made all the tools, pro tools, that we use to cut sound effects and edit. And he had a really cool gig. He would come in and just show us all the latest and greatest tools and how we use them. And if the studio liked them or had the budget, they would buy them. And I thought, I want his job because he has his own rig. He can still edit if he wants to. And he gets to go and talk to all these people and show him how to use it. So I came back to Full Sail, and I talked to a guy named Darren Millar, and I said, hey, how do I get that job? And he put me in touch with Digidesign in Palo Alto, California, got me an interview, they interviewed me, they offered me a job doing inside sales for 35 grand a year, but I have to move to Palo Alto. So the math didn't work. So I went back to Darren. I said, all right, Darren, that's not going to work. What else you got? And he says, well, have you ever heard of a manufacturer's representative? Like an independent firm? And I'm like, no. So he put me in touch with the owner at Mainline Marketing. And at another firm, which I won't mention, because that guy didn't call me back. Yeah, the owner of Mainline, Doug Swan at the time, he called me back. He wasn't really hiring, but he liked me. He's like, come to LDI. I went to the LDI show and met with him here in Orlando. And we hit it off. And I think a month later, he hired me. And I've been here ever since.

Ron:

When you joined Mainline, what was the job? What did you get hired to do?

Clinton:

I was basically a sales rep. Back then, that's pretty much, that's what it was. It was just sales, for the most part, you know, relationships, sales. And I had the worst performing accounts. He handed me these accounts. And it was commission only.

Ron:

Wow.

Clinton:

And yeah. In fact, he encouraged me to get a part-time job like waiting tables or something. And I said, no, I'm not going to do that. I'm like, if I'm going to do this, if there's working hours in the day, I'm going to invest it into Mainline. Because if I pull hours away, I feel like it'll just take me longer to get where I need to be. So the harder I work on the way in, the quicker I get to where I need to be.

Ron:

That had to have been terrifying to join a job. Was that your first official sales job at 100% commission?

Clinton:

No, I had done that before. I'd done it before. As a teenager, I was never afraid of that. As a teenager, in England, this is in England, I had to do, I signed up for a job. In the '80s, replacement windows in England was a thing. Like, you know, vinyl windows, like you see the commercials nowadays for like New South or whatever. Like, that was a big business in England. I don't know why, maybe because all the houses are old and they all need new windows.

Ron:

Probably not energy efficient, so probably it was a new tech.

Clinton:

In the '80s, there was this massive, and I worked for a company called Everest, which were the leading company, the biggest, the most expensive and the biggest. And it was like in America, the Kirby guy. You would knock on peoples' doors. And you'd have brochures. And you would try to get an appointment with them right then on the spot, if you could, to talk to them about Everest Windows, and then sell them their whole house full of windows. I don't think I sold many, but that was like really incredible sales training. And you know I had done some other sales gigs, you know, as a young man. So I wasn't necessarily afraid I was in a good place. I was in a good living situation where my rent was really low. And so it was relatively low risk, right? I mean, I was 27 years old. So in that respect, it's a little risky. You know.

Ron:

Yeah.

Clinton:

But it worked out.

Ron:

And how did you perform in your first few years in Mainline?

Clinton:

Very well. Again, partly luck and hard work, right? So Doug gave me a handful of accounts that weren't performing very well. We represented a brand at the time that was releasing something big, right? And I mean, I guess I can talk about it, but at the time we represented Sennheiser. And they were, because now we represent Sure, you know. But at the time we represented Sennheiser, and they were just about to launch something called Evolution Wireless, which is still a product today. But at the time, frequency agile wireless, you know if you had 16 frequencies, that was a lot. Well, they had 1,200 in a wide band. And it just did this, right? So it did that. And also, I had this account that wasn't doing much with Mainline at the time, called All Pro Sound, who have since now they're called Sweetwater Integration Services. They've been acquired over the years. But I think I took them.

Ron:

Sweetwater, like the online?

Clinton:

Yeah.

Ron:

I literally was just texting my Sweetwater sales guy, Chris, I was ordering some replacement Rode wireless microphones, actually.

Clinton:

Oh, there you go.

Ron:

That's funny.

Clinton:

Yeah. So yeah, so they got acquired, I mean, not that long ago, actually, like relatively. I don't know, if I had to guess like five years ago. But we were doing, I think, I think the number that sticks in my head was like $40,000 a year in sales total with all of our brands. And I took them, and I think within three years, I took them to $2 million in just those, you know, all of our brands. A big part of that being Sennheiser. And then, you know, I had other successes like that. And because of that, Doug then gave me more. He's like, "All right, you did really well with those. Here's a few more accounts.".

Ron:

Let's dive into that if you'll allow me. Pulling a thread as I often say. How were you able to do that? What was the reason you succeeded? Now you mentioned Sennheiser. Again, you used to carry that line many, you know, years ago, and they came out with a new revolutionary technology. But you had other salespeople on your team, peers of yours, that also would have had access to that same line.

Clinton:

Yeah.

Ron:

Why and how did you perform exceptionally? And I'm not about boosting your ego, but I'm saying, is there a method or technique or practice that you were demonstrating that you think led to that success?

Clinton:

Maybe.

Ron:

Or was it luck?

Clinton:

I tell this joke all the time that no one taught me, there's no book, there's no handbook on how to be a rep. And even Doug literally threw me in the deep end. He's just like, hey, here's some accounts. Here's our brands. Here's the price list. Here's the pamphlets, because back then we were still using brochures. Go. And I had a recording background from Full Sail. So a lot of this stuff, some of it was commercial audio, like ceiling speakers. And so I had to just learn. But I think really what it was, is I was just driven to learn everything I could and to what I used to say, and maybe we still say it from time to time, but is out-service my competition. If my customer calls me at nine, it doesn't happen often, but if they call me at 9:00 p.m. on a Saturday night, I'll probably take the call, especially back then. I didn't take that job waiting tables. I would see my customers during the day. I would do my follow-up at night. I would learn anything I needed to learn in the evenings. I minimized the amount of sleep I needed, right? So I was just committed, and I think our customers realized that, that I was committed to Mainline, to them, to helping them, helping their business, coming in and doing training for their staff, which is all stuff all reps do. But I think it's how you do it, right? I think when you're super passionate about something, people recognize it. When you truly care, people recognize it. And I think that's really what it was, is just authenticity and being myself and caring.

Ron:

Sounds like you gave a shit.

Clinton:

Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah. So I think that's the difference. And yeah.

Ron:

How did you transition? What is that? Well, take as much time or as little time, but how did you transition from being a salesperson to ultimately owning and running the company?

Clinton:

You know, you know I don't know. I think to me, it was sort of the same, right? Like I watched Doug, you know the previous owner, you know he wanted to go and do something different. So at some point, he made me a partner, you know in the first few years, I was doing really well. Fact is that commission plan he had me on was too aggressive for the company. So we did a restructure of that, made me a small partner. And then so when he made me the partner, I had a small leadership role as well, like just, you know, sales manager. And I just worked very closely with him and kind of got to understand the business side of our business a little bit. And so I would say that's the transition. We did that for a couple of years. I made it, he kind of gave me the title of VP. And then once he realized he wanted to leave, we switched roles. I became president, he became vice president. Mainly so our manufacturers would have confidence and not bail on us when Doug left, right? So that was a big part of that. And then I'll use that same thing. Like there's no handbook on how to run this business. We just do the right thing every day and work hard and surround ourselves with good people. And you know if we do those things, if we bring value to everybody that we work with every day, and you do the right thing every day, opportunity will come. And that's truly what happened. When I took over the company, Sennheiser was going direct at the time. When we took over the company, a year later, we lost Sennheiser. And we were like a $5 million firm. And then we, over the years, just work hard, work, do the right thing, you know out-service our competition, you know and now we're 10 times that.

Ron:

How do you decide what lines to carry? I'm assuming with the status of where you are today, you could, it's not promised, but you could likely have most of the lines you would want to carry. So how do you decide who to partner with?

Clinton:

Yeah, that's a good question. Yeah, I mean, we get asked almost weekly, right? And then most times we just refer them. We're very friendly with all of our competitors, actually. And I call it AV karma. You know, just do something good for them. Recommend the right one and help everybody out. And it comes back. So first, I think first and foremost is, is there a conflict, right? So if somebody approaches us, does it conflict with something we already have? And if things are good with the thing we have, which hopefully it should be, otherwise we shouldn't have taken it on, right, then that's an immediate. The other thing is, I think when we were a younger firm, pioneering a new brand, like something no one's ever heard of, it's so much work. And when we were a younger firm, we had the, I don't want to say energy. We had the bandwidth to maybe manage something like that. Now with everything we've got, some of the biggest brands in the world, it's really difficult for us to give them what they need, those brands that maybe no one's ever heard of, or a few people have heard of. So it's not fair for us to just take it on and not be able to give them the time they want. So that's a whole 'nother thing is bandwidth. So if we feel like we're not giving somebody the time and bandwidth they deserve, the service they deserve, we will resign before we ever get fired because it's not right to collect revenue from them if we're not working for them. So when taking on a new line, it's, do we have the bandwidth? And, you know, if anybody came to me today, it might be, it'd probably be no, right? We've got a full line card, you know? And so if it was something, maybe a new category, maybe what we would do is, you know, like lighting. We don't do any lighting lines. So maybe what we would do is say, "Okay, maybe we'll take it on, but we would bring on some lighting people." So then I make sure they get the bandwidth. So, you know, and then I think a big part of it too is the people. Oftentimes, when we take on brands, it's partly the people. So, you know, maybe it's not the number one brand, but it's, you know, people you really like working with. And that would be a good reason too. So, you know, it's all of those things, I guess, you know.

Ron:

Big picture, how did, what was business like in Florida for you through COVID? And what's it like right now? Like, and I'm just going to say, if you turn on the news, you think the world is ending. I mean, there's a lot of, you know, bad news out there today. You know, this is October 2023. And, you know, we're going to be entering into a presidential election season here in the new year. And, you know, I know most of us are not looking forward to that, at least the divisiveness of our politics these days in America, and kind of what's going to go on there and all the uncertainty in the economy. So I'm just curious, how was COVID big picture for you guys? And then what does it look like? What's the landscape look like right now?

Clinton:

Well, COVID was a challenge for us. I mean, I'm sure it was for almost everybody. But, you know, our job is to, you know, one of the things I talk to our guys about is the most effective, the biggest thing that will move the needle is being in front of people, right? So if you're in front of, whether it's an end user, one of our dealers, if you're in front of them and we're talking and we're bringing value to you that day, we'll learn of other opportunities. I think oftentimes, if you're on a phone or through email, you might be able to speak to this one opportunity that, you know, about however that conversation started, maybe it was about a project, but you won't likely hear about what else they're working on. But just in conversation like this, you know, when two people are in a room. So that all went to crap, you know, during COVID, right?

Ron:

Yeah, you weren't able to get face-to-face.

Clinton:

Yeah, we couldn't get face-to-face. People were working from home. They weren't in their offices. People were reluctant to meet. And then, so we had to try to find new ways to engage with customers. We tried everything from like, you know, virtual, we opened up our Experience Center that year, actually, in 2020. Of course, no one saw it coming, neither did we.

Ron:

Perfect timing.

Clinton:

Yeah, perfect timing. So we did a virtual grand opening where we set up cameras and did a live stream like this and had people join us so they could see it and hear it. And you know, so we had to get creative, and we did some trivia events. So events is a big part of what we do to try to engage with people, right? So we were doing virtual events, right? And until people got virtual evented out, which happened fairly quickly. But the interesting thing is it's had a permanent effect on our business. So pre-pandemic, if we call up an integrator, dealer, or one of our end users for an appointment to come and talk to them about Shure microphones. I mean, unless they were just out of town, you could almost always get that appointment. Lunch and Learn, you know whatever it might be. It is way more difficult now, mostly because their teams are now scattered. You can't just go to somebody's office and meet with five or six people and do a Lunch and Learn.

Ron:

They're hybrid workplaces now.

Clinton:

Yeah, they're hybrid. Maybe they have to go in two days a week. Maybe they don't go in at all. And in South Florida specifically, you might live in Kendall and your office is in Fort Lauderdale. If you don't have to make that drive, you know? So that's really changed, right? So we used to set goals on....not really set a goal. I mean, I guess it's goal setting, but it's really a self-inflicted goal. So my team would look at a calendar for the quarter. We have a quarterly meeting. They'd look at the calendar and say, OK, there's 13 weeks in a quarter. Mondays and Fridays are going to be in my office doing my follow up and set up. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, three days a week. I'm going to see three or four customers a day. And you do the math for 13 weeks. You pull out Thanksgiving and Christmas this quarter. And I think I can see 100 customers this quarter. And then at the beginning of the following quarter, you just look at it. How'd you do, right? And it's just a way to sort of stay on track. Well, pre-pandemic, they would get close to that 100. But post-pandemic, there were times it was half or even a third of that goal. And there's still tons of interaction. Everybody's super busy. Everybody's shorthanded, super busy, lots of phone calls, lots of emails, lots of site visits, very specific targeted things we're doing, versus sort of the more proactive approach of going into somebody's place of business and showing them the latest and greatest tools.

Ron:

And when you say post-pandemic, you mean like right now. Right now. This is still being half of what it was pre-pandemic.

Clinton:

Yeah, so maybe it's a little better than half now. But now what we're seeing is, and I hope I'm wrong, but we're seeing a softening in the market, right? So I don't watch the news on purpose because it's usually pretty negative, and I don't need that. So if there's something really big happening, a little banner will pop up on my phone and say, hey, you know, the Russians just invaded Ukraine, right? So at least I know there's something big going on. Maybe I'll go and look at that and read on what's going on or, you know, what's going on in Gaza. You know, I know the big things, but I don't know the little things, right?

Ron:

I'm the same way, by the way. I scan Twitter. I'll scan Twitter and see the big news in the world, and then I'm good. I definitely try not to get sucked into the vortex of, you know, news TV.

Clinton:

And I especially avoid it around election, by the way.

Ron:

Oh, yeah.

Clinton:

It's just a shit show. So where was I going? Oh, so softening, I think what we're finding is everybody's got a backlog of projects in that commercial market. Everybody's got a backlog of projects and they're getting them finished up. But we're seeing less new projects coming into the pipeline. And we've talked to a couple of our dealers and they're seeing it too. The retail side of our business, which is usually the canary in the cavern, or whatever they say.

Ron:

Canary in the coal mine.

Clinton:

Coal mine. There you go, coal mine, canary in the coal mine. So from our last recession back in '07, '08, retail will feel it first, right? If people stop spending, your average consumer, they don't go to Guitar Center and buy that microphone or that headphone. We feel that immediately, right? Like, you know, Guitar Center doesn't reorder. Guitar Center doesn't reorder. You know, we see that in our numbers pretty quickly within about 60 to 90 days. We're seeing a decline in new orders. On the commercial side of our business, because projects are usually six months at a minimum, usually a year or more out, it'll follow much later. But the flip side of that, when the economy comes back, retail does this. Like, good news, you know, interest rates drop, or wages go up, or, you know, everybody got a big tax refund, whatever it might be, that'll have an immediate effect on our retail business. So, we're already seeing a softening in retail, you know, probably down, you know, four or five percent. And I think we're starting to see it on the commercial side. So I think I'm predicting 2024 will be, I don't think it's gonna be like '08, you know, but it's certainly gonna be softer and harder. So especially as the firm with all the big brands that have more market share, it's harder. If you're a small brand with 10%, 15% market share, there's still work you can do because you can take market share.

Ron:

Steal market share from other brands.

Clinton:

So yeah, we've got our work to protect our market share, to still try to grow the business because they all want to grow.

Ron:

The vendors still want you to grow, right?

Clinton:

Yeah. I think in my twenty four or five years of doing this, I've seen like two or three reductions in year-over-year quotas. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's very rare, very rare.

Ron:

Are you seeing when you look into 24, I have a theory, so I'll tell you my theory, but after you tell me yours, are you seeing all of 24 as soft, you know, year of, you know, 23 versus 24? Or are you seeing it, you know, like, how do you see the first half of 24 versus the second half of 24?

Clinton:

I would like to think that the first half will be soft, and the second half will start to slowly climb back up. Probably not a sharp rise. But I think, you know, one of my thoughts, just listening to some, you know, experts on, you know, for instance, interest rates, is, you know, interest rates, by the way, I have a 2% on my mortgage, so happy. But that shouldn't exist. Nobody's making money in that scenario, right? And interest rates probably should live around 5% or 6%. So I think that's the new normal, and people right now don't like it. Maybe once they get used to it, wages will catch up, and things will level out, inflation will level out. And I think once things normalize, probably post the election too, unfortunately. The election is going to play a part in that, because we always see a little dip around election time.

Ron:

Regardless of who gets voted in, the general populace and uncertain marketplace love a decision to be made.

Clinton:

Yeah, yeah. So unless everybody was in agreement that both candidates would be awesome, which never happens. So yeah, I don't think it's going to be a sharp decline. I don't think it's going to be a sharp rise either. I think it'll be, you know, it'll come back slowly, partly because of the election. But this is our new normal until we have some other world event that causes, you know, something to change.

Ron:

Well, yeah, yeah, I completely agree. I think these are strange times. You know, I'm by no means an economist, but I do enjoy in terms of like podcasts and content. I just, and maybe it's because of my role working with so many businesses across North America. I enjoy listening to macroeconomic type content to try to, you know, what are these really smart people? What are they saying and thinking? And then how am I comparing that to what I'm seeing in my life? And there seems to be consensus that these are certainly very volatile and strange times economically. No, I was going to say, I believe that regardless of an economic environment, that we as business owners and operators can also choose to grow. It's a decision.

Clinton:

Yeah.

Ron:

How do you think about your day, your week, your month, your quarter? And, you know, despite the obstacles and the things that are in front of us, what can we do to stand out or be different? And so I don't think that in a tough economy, one has to necessarily shrink or take it on the chin, or if you do take it on the chin, strategizing, how are you going to punch back? That's at least the way that I play the game.

Clinton:

Yeah, we try to as well. So I was going to mention, you know, we talked about NSCA BLC earlier. You made mention. Do you know that? Have you sat in on Dr. Kuehl's?

Ron:

I have several times.

Clinton:

He's so funny. So you know he's a great economist. And what I love about him is that he basically admits that him and all other economists are just guessing, right? They just look at data and the data they're looking at is all historical data and what purchasing managers index, you know what purchasing managers are doing. And then they basically take all this and then they just guess what's going to happen tomorrow. And I remember when we were at NSCA in 2020, it was late February 2020, right before everything went to crap and shut down. He got up on that stage and said, this is just going to be a blip. It's going to last three months, six months. I forget what the, you know. And the funny thing is, is when he finally came back, and I don't know if it was the following year when we went back or we skipped a year, I don't remember. But that's how he started. He's like, well, I got that wrong, didn't I? So everybody that was there, it's usually the same people there, right? So I would say you know 70% of the people at that event, they come every year. And I thought it was great. And I just find it interesting that they don't have a crystal ball. And they're just like you and me. And yeah, they're looking at some metrics that probably make a better, more educated guess. But you know I think we feel it too, right? Just we feel it in our business. As business owners, you know I felt it before I saw it, if that makes sense. I know just listening.

Ron:

Well, there's sentiment, right? There's just the general sentiment of yourself, your family, your team, you know your employees, their families. How are people feeling? And that usually is a signal sometimes before you see the big, you know, that ultimately playing out in severe ways in the business. Yeah And I think it's certainly sentiment out there in the marketplace. It's not great. It's not great. There's no other way to look at it. And then you look at, you know obviously what just happened in Israel and Gaza, and then you have Ukraine, and then you know lots of other threats on the horizon. But at the same time, humans are emotional creatures. And they can also imagine and/or exaggerate things that are much worse than they actually are. Yeah So the things going on in the world are very bad. But at the same time, I don't know if you've heard speakers talk about, well, if you really look at stats, like it's never been a better time to be alive on planet Earth than right now. If you look at the amount of people in poverty, the amount of people that are starving, the amount of people with water shortages, so many people in the world are doing better today in October 2023 than ever in human history. So it's a matter of us, business owners and operators, kind of riding this roller coaster of emotions and designing that path forward. And, you know, I loved your, you know, the idea that you were stating, Clinton, which is it's really a matter of protecting your market share and just trying to, what did you say? What's your mantra about delivering value? Just make sure you deliver value and the rest will take care of itself.

Clinton:

Yeah, every day. I would do the right thing, too, because they go, you know, but yeah, if we're bringing value to everybody, I mean, we even say, if you're making a phone call, even, you know, what's the value in that call? If you're calling a customer, not to just check boxes.

Ron:

It's not calling them and asking them if they're ready to take an order.

Clinton:

Right.

Ron:

Or make an order. I coach my sales team in the same way. Like, never be that person.

Clinton:

Yeah, there's no value in that. There's value to me, but not for the customer. Yeah. So that's a long game. And building relationships bring value. And like I said, you know at our quarterly meetings, we review these things. And sometimes it's repetitive, right, because a quarter goes quickly. But we're always like, what's next? What are we doing today that we feel is valuable? Just 'cause we feel it's valuable doesn't mean it really is. So we have to make sure that we're getting feedback that whatever it is we're bringing, people do find valuable, right? And you know like events, right? I feel events pre-pandemic were hugely popular. And now I find they're hit and miss, right? Like I think people like events, but everybody's so busy. And then I think also post-pandemic, I think people care more about their time off. They're more protective of that time, right? That family time or friend time or even alone time, right? That if you're doing an event you know at 4:00 p.m., yeah, they can get out of the office early and come to your event. But then tomorrow, there's that much more work they've got to do. But also, if the event goes till 7:00 p.m., well, that's family time. So I think pre-pandemic is much easier. Post-pandemic, I'm finding that maybe our events aren't valuable enough. We're not getting the same kind of turnout we used to get. And that's a tough one to figure out.

Ron:

I'll just add to that. I correlate your data. We looked at One Firefly, like we do business like you, face-to-face. And this year, we put more into events in terms of budget and people and resources than we have in all of our 16 years in business. And I'll just say that the outcome of that or return on investment of those investments were well below expectations. And it's just, when we're looking back at like, we love to deliver value. We love to teach, we love to train, we love to interact with our customers and our industry. And yet they're just at many of these events, it just, it feels different. It's hard for me to put exactly my finger on what's different. But the world on the other side of COVID, particularly relating to events, and the B2B relationship that we have with our customers, it just, it's definitely different. And, you know, part of me goes, "Well, that stinks." And part of me goes, "Well, that's fascinating." So like, why is it different? And what do we need to do to be more valuable so that ultimately we continue to drive business forward? It's like a puzzle.

Clinton:

Yeah, it is. And if people are done with events, I don't know that they're done, but if events aren't effective, then I just wonder what else we can do. What's next? Or do we just need to change up the events and make them different? Or do we need to get away from events and do something that I haven't even thought of yet? You know.

Ron:

We'll figure it out. Clinton, for folks that are tuned in, want to get in touch directly with you or learn more about Mainline, where would you send them?

Clinton:

I mean, generally to our website, 'cause our contact information is there. It's www.mainlinemarketing.com. And then, you know, my email address is up there, which is just my first initial, last name at mainlinemarketing.com, C, Muntean, M-U-N-T-E-AN.

Ron:

Awesome. Clinton, it was awesome having you on show 252 of Automation Unplugged.

Clinton:

Thank you. I enjoyed being here.

Ron:

And I know you were feeling a little bit under the weather, and I can tell you, you did a great job. I appreciate you being a trooper and still recording with me today.

Clinton:

Thank you very much.

Ron:

Awesome. All right. Folks, there you have it. Clinton Muntean, owner and operator and sales rep extraordinaire here in the beautiful state of Florida. Hope you all enjoyed that conversation. I know that I did. And we have a lot of shows. I have some new help here at One Firefly. Deborah is my new executive assistant, and she's working with Allison and Rebecca. And we have lots of great shows lined up for the balance of the year. And so keep tuning in. We're going to keep producing these shows for all of you. And until next time, I will see you all very soon. Thanks, everybody.

SHOW NOTES:

Clinton has over 25 years of sales and management experience after graduating from Full Sail University with a degree in recording engineering. In 2000, Clinton joined Mainline as a sales representative, becoming the firm’s top producer during his first 18 months with the firm.

He was made a partner a year later, promoted to Vice President of Sales in 2004, and went on to become the President of Mainline after purchasing the firm in 2005. Today Mainline Marketing is one of the leading AV rep firms in the country.

Based in Orlando, Florida, they have been connecting the companies who make exceptional audio-visual equipment with the integrators and end customers since 1987.

Ron Callis is the CEO of One Firefly, LLC, a digital marketing agency based out of South Florida and creator of Automation Unplugged. Founded in 2007, One Firefly has quickly became the leading marketing firm specializing in the integrated technology and security space. The One Firefly team work hard to create innovative solutions to help Integrators boost their online presence, such as the elite website solution, Mercury Pro.

Resources and links from the interview:

• Mainline Marketing Webpage
• Mainline Marketing LinkedIn
• Clinton Muntean LinkedIn Profile