This week's episode of Automation Unplugged we’re bringing you a webinar we recorded in September 2024 called “How to Evaluate Top Talent: Strategies for Making Effective Hiring Decisions.”

About this episode:

Attracting, hiring, and retaining top talent has long been one of the greatest challenges to growth in the custom integration industry and it remains a pressing issue today.That’s why we’re bringing you valuable insights on talent sourcing & hiring best practices to position your business for hiring success in 2025. The webinar we’re bringing you today is the third in a series of three. The first webinar was released on show #286 on January 8, 2025, and the second on show #290 on February 5, 2025. Today’s webinar covers proven strategies and advice for evaluating candidates and ultimately making the right hiring decision for your team.

You’ll hear from Samantha Hodz, Director of Talent Acquisition Services at Amplify People, One Firefly’s hiring division, and Paul Dolenc, VP of Education & Training at CEDIA.

In the webinar, we’ll cover:

• Strategies for creating a structured interview process, and the types of screens and interviews you may use to evaluate candidates.
• The importance of evaluating for both skills and culture fit during interviews .
• Tips on how to ask tough, insightful questions that go beyond surface-level responses and help uncover a candidate's true potential.

SEE ALSO: AU #262: Sales vs. Marketing vs. Leadership: Can We All Just Get Along?

Transcript

Samantha:

But we can go ahead and kick off webinar three. I can't believe it's already here. But again, thank you for those of you joining us. We are going to be talking about how to evaluate top talent today. So strategies for making effective hiring decisions. I know a few of you have been with us previously, but just as a reminder, I'll kind of give you an intro to who I am, and then I will have Paul intro himself as well. But my name is Sam. I'm the Director of Talent Acquisition Services here at Amplify People, have over 15 years in the talent space. Joined to Amplify People earlier this year. It was launched last year in 2023 as the one stop talent solution for the CI industry. And it was really born out of years of optimizing hiring strategies for One firefly, and was created to serve the industry's toughest talent challenges. So that's really like the elevator intro to who I am and Paul I'll let you kind of kick us off here.

Paul:

Thanks, Sam. So again, I'm Paul Dolenc, Vice President of Education and Training with CEDIA. I have over 11 years in the talent space. I have been with CEDIA since the end of April. So just a little bit about CEDIA. So we are the smart home professional trade association, founded in 1989. We have over 30, 000 CEDIA members globally in 80 countries. And with CEDIA, there's no shortage of content or resources available. We provide education, certifications, standards, advocacy, anything related to the smart home industry, and growing.

Samantha:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you, Paul. for that introduction to yourself and to CEDIA. And so just to kind of review for everyone what is on today's agenda, we are going to be talking about defining your end goals, creating a structured process, looking beyond the resume and asking tough questions. And so what you'll receive after this webinar is over is you're going to receive a copy of the webinar recording, and you're also going to receive examples of evaluation questions, how to uncover a candidate's story. So that should be really, really helpful. I know some of you are new. Some of you have joined us previously, but what we covered in webinars one and two was how to attract and find top talent. So how to position your brand and culture to attract the right fit candidates and where to strategically find candidates online and in person. But for those of you that were with us previously, you know one thing we like to do is get started with a poll. So today's poll is, how many people do you include in your current evaluation process for candidates? And so I know we're going to kick that off here in a moment. You should be able to make some selections shortly. There we go.

Paul:

That's a great question.

Samantha:

Thank you. Yeah, I agree. It's, you know, everybody brings something different and everybody has a different approach. So it's interesting to kind of see how people respond. All right, we'll give it another moment here. Very nice. So zero people are including one person, just one person, which is really interesting to see and nice to see. It looks like a majority of two to four people involved in that process, with a few of you at that four plus. So very nice. I appreciate you all kind of sharing where you are. And I think, as we go through this, we'll learn some different tips and tricks on how to either solidify your process, enhance it, or maybe make a change. So with that being said. One thing that I do want to remind everybody as we go through this conversation is a resume that is 75 percent interesting is worth a conversation. If you're on the fence, the answer is yes, is kind of a catchy way to remember that. You never know where you can uncover fantastic talent. You never know what a conversation will come. And later we're going to dive into candidate stories. You'll never know the complete picture of a candidate based just on their resume. So if there's enough to grab your attention, there's enough to have a conversation. And with that being said, I'd love to kind of dive into some of the meat of the program today. Paul, I'm going to kick it over to you.

Paul:

Great. Absolutely. Thanks, Sam. So, this portion is defining your end goals and we're going to take time really looking at it from start to finish. I think, you know, what I have seen and Sam could agree is usually when there's a need or, to hire an individual for a position, it's sometimes kind of a short fix. You know, it's like put the bandaid on and let's see where it goes. So really what we need to look at is looking at the bigger picture of, you know, as are we looking for to fill a skill gap? What are some future vacancies that might arise? Business growth, as the company grows, you know, what's the sustainable growth or people that we need to fulfill the job that we have at hand. So, the other thing is also, as you're working on the growth, putting that in the job description would help the candidate who applies to understand where you as a company want to grow, where you want to go, because ultimately we'll talk about this later. It's that that individual who's applying may also feel the same way as you do with the growth plan for your company. So just some suggestions there. And as you identify what the need is, and similar to what we did with the poll is identifying the key stakeholders during the evaluation and hiring process. And so right there, we have some suggested individuals who would be there, you know, the HR team, hiring management, leadership team, and this is all great. And I think they should be there, but also even thinking about, you know, the strategy of looking at the long term. Is there anyone within a different department, who this individual may or eventually interact with? Again, I know, you know, we don't have a crystal ball, but really thinking about where you want to go, where you want to expand within your company, you're going to want to make sure you have those stakeholders there at the table during the interviewing process to make sure that this person is the best candidate that you are hiring. And so similar to what the poll showed, if for a small organization, three to five people, you know, if you answered that, you are correct. And making sure that those individuals, each of those individuals within that group have time to interact with the candidate, to be able to get to know the individual. And like I said earlier, that may change too, of who you have in the hiring process. So, you know, for example, if you're looking to hire an events, role or, or outreach, you know, you may want to bring in your marketing department, because again, that's going to play a hand and getting your messaging out. Even though they're going to be working on you know, events and outreach. So, it may change, but the rule of thumb for a small organization, three to five would be a great amount. And of course, with the whole hiring process, be proactive, instead of reactive. So, you know, if you need to bring in another stakeholder, or if you want to go outside with a manufacturer, or, you know, you want to look at some other aspects of the hiring, don't shy away from that because obviously at the end of the day, you're looking to hire the best candidate for that position for the growth of your company and organization.

Samantha:

Yeah. All really excellent points, Paul. I think it's important to remember your why and everything that you do in business, what is the purpose of what you're about to embark on. Making sure that it fits a larger picture, like you said, and ensuring that you're keeping that company culture top of mind. So as you grow, you're not constantly kind of taking one step forward, two steps back. And so great, great points there, Paul. And so kind of the next level of this is really ensuring that you've got a structured evaluation process. And there are a number of evaluation tools that people can use throughout this process. And we're going to break these down for you, but it could be a phone screening, a skill assessment, personality assessments, structured interviews, panel interviews, and working interviews. So that skills assessment, you'll see there's a demonstration of it there. It could be, you know, one of the components that you use in parallel with a panel interview or a working interview. It's not one of these things. It's getting the right combination to ensure that you have all of the information you have, you need to make a really educated decision with your business and who you're bringing into it. So diving a little bit more and breaking out a little bit more is we'll start with the assessments. And we're starting with screening, even though that could fall under interview two, we're going to leave it here for the purpose of this conversation. A screening is really your first introduction to communicating with a candidate. So this is going to be a brief, typically 15 minute phone screen, and this isn't typically going to be conducted on camera or in person, it's just 15 minutes. And really what you want to derive from this conversation is do they have a basic understanding of what the requirements are for this role, what the qualifications are for this role, and do they align with those? And you do that with really high level conversation. Basically, do they know what they put on their resume? If they're asked about a specific job, do you know, are they knowledgeable enough? And is their communication style something that you can really gravitate towards and see a part of your organization. And this is done by either an external talent partner or an internal member of your team, whether it's an owner, a hiring manager, or an HR team member. Another one of those assessments that can be utilized is a personality assessment, and there's a number of them you can find on the web. There's a variety of different ways to go with this, but it's really a questionnaire designed to measure traits and behavioral tendencies. This will really be a key indicator of cultural fit and communication style. Is this somebody that you could see adding value to your organization, and that would fit in personality wise? And it's gonna be those same team members, that same who that can be responsible for the entire assessment stage you'll see there. And then this third type of assessment we'll talk about is the skills assessment. This is tasks or tests designed to evaluate specific job related skills. Again, this can be something that you've developed in-house if you've developed certain, kind of multiple choice or test that you like to run candidates through. It can be something really proprietary to you or there are a variety of options that you can find through third party vendors that have developed some skills assessments to really test the proficiency and technical or role specific skill requirements. And so those are three different types of assessments you can have in your toolkit as you're going through, trying to evaluate talent. And then the other part of this is going to be the actual interview style that you choose. And again, this can be a combination of any of these things. So a structured interview is going to be that formal interview. So that's going to be a predetermined set of questions, asked in an order, across the board, to anybody that interviews for the role that you're hiring for. So that's going to be consistency in evaluating all candidates based on a specific set of criteria. If it's an external, it's going to be that panel interview. And the panel interview is an interview where multiple interviewers are asking questions to a candidate at the same time. So this is for those of you that are using three or four people in that interview process. All of them can be a part of this panel interview setup, where you can really evaluate team fit, communication skills, and responses to a diverse set of perspectives, a diverse set of questioners, and a diverse set of questions. One thing in a panel interview is sometimes, there's a variety of ways you could break it out, sometimes everybody's got predetermined questions based on their role within the organization. And other times it's really more conversational trying to evaluate how this person would be able to fit in with the overall structure that you have developed. So there's multiple ways you can do that panel interview as well. The third type is something that's kind of new. And that's going to be a working interview. This is going to be where you bring a candidate in on site specifically for something like a technician role. This is beneficial, and they perform those tasks hand in hand with your team. During that working interview, you would be setting them up as an independent contractor for a couple of days or a week. And this is really your last kind of, opportunity to get real life information, real time performance evaluation, real understanding of their technical skills beyond what they're telling you, you can actually see it and it becomes tangible. So it may be a combination just to review of a panel interview, a working interview and a skills, or a working interview, a structured interview, and a personality assessment. Whatever you find is the combination that brings you the most success is absolutely what you should do for your organization, but any of these are tools in your toolkit that you can pull out. And again, it could vary by role. So that's just something to be mindful of. And so I want to run through a couple of evaluation tips. One thing that I like to tell everybody is you want to develop a set of standardized questions to assess for skill and cultural fit. So it is across the board. You want to make sure that you're being fair and giving an opportunity to everybody that you choose to interview. So having that set of questions so if you were out sick one day, somebody could, in theory, step in and conduct that interview on your behalf and it would be seamless is really, really important. So you've got that criteria that you are evaluating each candidate against the actual role, and you can have a little bit of compare and contrast in that way. Another thing that's really critical is to avoid using boilerplate questions from Google. So, you want to tailor those to uncover what you really want to know. a little kind of cheat code or trick is going to be to upload your job description into ChatGPT. And you can prompt it for recommendations based on the role and the stated goals. What would you ask in this interview? And you'll see there's some examples of that right there to the right. And then some additional evaluation tips that I like to run through are make sure you're documenting responses in a way that will help you make a informed decision upon review. Something that you can go back to, even if you're only interviewing two or three candidates. By the time you're done with that second conversation, it can start to get blurry. Did candidate A say this? Did candidate B say this? So make sure that you're documenting it, whether it's asking the candidate if it's okay for it to be recorded, using some sort of AI tool, or taking handwritten notes works just as well. But something that can be documented, that you can go back and you don't get kind of lost in all of the conversations. You want to save the responses from candidates you like, even if they're not the right fit for this role, or maybe they've taken another job and they're not available to join your team. Saving those responses over time will help you kind of build up a bank to create a guide of what you should go out and target. And equally important is saving the responses from candidates that you don't like to identify patterns and trends and you can avoid those kind of as you move forward. And so one thing that I caution everybody because it's easy to fall into this trap, you can learn everything you need to know over the phone, meet with every candidate face to face, whether it's in person or over video, it is remarkably important for you to be able to evaluate all those nonverbal communication skills that somebody has. And so that face to face interaction cannot, no matter what assessment you give, it cannot be beat. That's definitely vital. And then I think Paul, you were going to talk about kind of the next phase of this.

Paul:

Yeah. Great. Sam, that wonderful ideas. I love that working interview suggestion. That's great. So, obviously, once you get the resumes and the applications, you know, one thing that the group could look at is looking behind the resume. And what we mean by that is, many skills are teachable. So, actually just the other week, I had a training on emotional intelligence, which I know is kind of a popular buzzword or characteristic that's out there. And it's a teachable skill, a very important skill. So many skills, even if they don't have everything in the job description, keep in mind that you can teach those skills to those individuals. But really, at the heart of it, what you're looking for as a candidate, and Sam touched upon that, that they value your vision, your mission, culture, you know, with the panel, with the group that's interviewing the individual, you want to make sure that they will fit, they believe in the mission and the cause of the company and organization. Because if they don't, obviously down the road, that may be a problem. But keep in mind that any of the skills that they may not have can be, they're teachable, and you're just making sure that they're a good fit for the task at hand. And so just some things to think about as you're looking at the resume. Again, when we look at the resume, you know, kind of what Sam was saying, we look at boilerplate questions, you know, you're looking at education, certifications, you know, how long have they been in and out? Those are all great things to keep in mind, but you really want to get to know that individual. So, you know, some questions that you can ask the individual is. Why are they interested in this role? Or even, look at the bottom, why are they looking into this role? What are they hoping to get out or motivate them in this position? And these are, as they respond and answer these questions, you know, you're able to get to know that individual on a more personal in depth viewpoint than just looking at the resume and what they put on there. And again, these questions, will also help steer you to see do they fit the vision and culture of your company to make sure that it is the right person that you'll bring on. So these are just some suggested questions that look behind, beyond, the resume.

Samantha:

Perfect. Thank you for that, Paul. Yeah, really important. Every candidate has a story. You can't learn everything that you need to know in the one to two pages that they give you. So asking those questions, if there's something that catches your eye, if there was a break in a resume, it doesn't mean the candidate is a bad candidate. Maybe they had a family situation or they had a sabbatical that they were taking for a specific reason. You're never going to know unless you ask those questions. And so along those same lines of uncovering a candidate's story, it's important to ask the tough questions. And there are a couple of techniques for asking tough questions. One is be able to create an open and friendly environment from the beginning of the interview. You don't want it to be a case of you grilling candidates and turning tough questions into something that they clam up and shy away from. You really need to build a rapport with a candidate in order to ask some of these questions and get them to tell you their story. Interviews are tricky. Interviews are stressful. When you are looking for a job, this person has prepared, they have thought about this interview, they may have some interview anxiety, and so coming in and grilling them is going to cause them to shut down. And it could be the perfect candidate if you had just kind of allowed for open and friendly conversation, and in return also not shied away from their questions. And salary: be direct, be transparent. That's one of the keys to again, establishing that rapport. And so one thing that I tell everybody to really be mindful of is being an active listener. I know it sounds so basic, but it really is true. Practice the three second rule. That's really easy. So when a candidate stops talking, pause for three seconds. That way, you know they're done talking. It gives your brain a little moment to process how to, in a conversational manner, follow up with them, ask another question, move on to a new topic, or dive a little bit deeper. So just something to keep in mind as you're going through this. The three second rule is always, always available and suggested. And then if we go down on the next slide, you're going to see a little example of how we say, you know, the tough questions or what could be kind of the checklist questions versus a way to make it conversational. So you'll see here as an example, where do you see yourself in three to five years? That's a very boilerplate, standard question. But a way to ask it so it's conversational and opens a candidate up would be: looking ahead, what kind of impact do you hope to make in your career? And how does this role fit into that vision? That's the same exact question, just different words and allows for a lot more dialogue. The candidate is going to open up a lot more. If you see, can you tell me about a time when you faced a significant challenge at work and how you handled it? If you go to: when you think back on your toughest professional challenges, what stands out as a learning moment? And how did that experience shape you the way you approach similar situations today? Again, same question, completely different approach. And so it's all about making sure that you are providing a safe space for that candidate to open up and give you the information that you need to really want to, that you need to make an informed decision. Giving them a place where they want to share, not that they feel that they have to. And so, just something to keep in mind as we go through all of this. And if you take these steps and you really make it a conversation and make it approachable, you'll see on the next screen, you will be able to let everyone walk away happy. And the reason that that is so important is maybe you don't hire this person. Maybe they're not a fit for the role that you have today. But culturally, they're incredible and you want to be able to call them again in six months, nine months, a year from now, keep them engaged in your network. And if they walk away feeling like you heard them and you understand them, even if you didn't give them the job and the answer is a no, they are still going to have respect for your organization. And they can also be a source for you if they walked away and they. feel like they aren't the right fit based on that conversation and have an understanding. They may know the right person for your company now that they understand you a little bit more. So it's all about ensuring no matter the outcome, everybody walks away happy. And so just something to keep in mind. And so I really, appreciate all of you joining us today, especially those that have kind of joined us for all three at Hiring Success Summer Series. Again, you'll be able to watch any of these on demand. And if you want to get in touch with either of us, Paul, I know you've got some ways to get in touch with your team.

Paul:

Sure. Absolutely. So, that is my contact information in the middle of my email. the QR code on the left, brings you to cedia.org. But on the, the QR code on the right brings you to our workforce resources. You know, the smart home professionals, integrators, you know, how you can learn more in our initiative as we're working to retain and recruit a top talent in this growing industry.

Samantha:

Perfect. Thank you so much, Paul. I appreciate that. And if you have any questions that I can assist with, do not hesitate to reach out to Amplify People. You can speak with a member of the team. You'll see that contact information there. You can follow us on LinkedIn. Or you can explore the Amplify People component of the website right there. And if you'd like to have an audit of your current hiring process, just want to kind of talk through it, feel free to reach out. I'm happy to answer any questions. And I really appreciate everybody joining us today. I know there's some questions. I think Rebecca from the One Firefly team here is here and it's going to kind of walk us through a few questions that you all had and we'll do our best to answer them.

Rebecca:

I am. Thank you everybody. And if anyone has more questions, please feel free to drop them in the Q and A section. We'll hang around for a few minutes to answer anything. So we had a great question come in, going back, Sam, you talked about a working interview. What is the legal setup for a working interview? What is the right way to pay these candidates during that?

Samantha:

Absolutely. Great question. So it's going to be a little bit different in every state, but at the baseline, you do have to pay somebody. It would be treated the same as a 1099 contractor. So it would be a contract agreement for a set price, for a set number of days, for them to come in and actually perform work. Great question.

Rebecca:

Awesome. We had another good one come in that feels really relevant for today's digital age, but should I look at a candidate's social media profiles during the evaluation process?

Paul:

So, I would say the, the answer is yes, obviously within reason. But if they have, you know, let's just say a LinkedIn page, you know, that is fair game, that is, you know, business individuals, you're able to see, you know, where individuals have worked. So the answer would be yes. Sam, do you want to elaborate or have any take on that as well?

Samantha:

Absolutely. Absolutely. I agree with you. LinkedIn is always fair game. I do know that I've partnered with people in the past who have checked public social media. So if somebody has their profile on any social media platform set to public, there is no harm in checking it. What you want to avoid is becoming a private investigator. You don't want to set up fake profiles. You don't want to do any sleuthing. Anything that is set to public is fair game.

Rebecca:

Great. Had another good one come in, just about like the timing of this process. How long should your evaluation process be taking per candidate?

Samantha:

That's that's another great question. Paul, you want to dive in?

Paul:

Yeah, so I'll take that and give, you know, personal experience. So I would say, if there's a, let me start at there's a need and you've looked at, you know, the growth and what the plan is, and you need to hire a position. You know, that you start where, you know, where you want to start, you know, when do you want to start that individual and backfill, you know, your calendar on that. Let's say we want to hire someone in the start of January 2025, right now would be, let's start putting together the group that's going to review. Let's start putting together a job description and then set up when you're going to have the time to go through all the resumes. And then set up the interviews. So I would say once you identify that, you know, you definitely want to move relatively quickly within a couple months. What I have seen is that when you've identified a need, don't let it stall out. So don't start the process and then, you know, you're looking at resumes and then, you know, another job or something gets put up, you know, that comes up. You need to stick to it. Your review team need to all be on board and make sure that these timeframes work and are obtainable. Because at the end of the day, when that does happen and things get pushed and slide, candidates start, you know, you're like Sam said, you want to make sure it's a great experience for the candidate and for the company. You know, they're gonna start thinking, well, did you get my resume? Did you get my application? I haven't heard from you. So that's what you want to avoid. So keep track, you know, put together a timeline and stick to it.

Samantha:

Absolutely, Paul. And the only thing I'll add to that is be transparent with candidates. If you are just starting your kind of screening process and you know you've got seven more screens to get through that week, and you're not going to have any answers until next week, be transparent and open about that. If you tell a candidate 48 hours, be sure to respond within 48 hours. As long as you communicate and are transparent. What I will also kind of caution everybody is make sure you are taking the appropriate amount of time to go through your entire process, but also remembering that, especially with certain kind of roles within this industry, there is a limited talent pool. So you don't want to take so long that you're losing out to a competitor. So make sure that you are finding that fine line and balance between establishing a good interview process and also not losing out on great talent because your process was too lengthy.

Paul:

Great point.

Rebecca:

Yeah. Awesome. Looks like we have one more good one in here. It's just kind of thinking about, especially as you guys talked about the social media profiles, but what shouldn't you be evaluating during interviews and assessments?

Samantha:

I'm happy to chime in if you'd like. You don't want to be evaluating anything that would kind of get you into that, that bad territory from an HR perspective. So you don't want to evaluate based on somebody's gender. You don't want to evaluate based on religion. You don't want to evaluate based on age. Those are the types of things that will wind up just kind of putting a bad taste in people's mouths, could get you in trouble. There's a lot of kind of rabbit holes you don't want to go down. So when you're creating your evaluation process, none of those things should be included in your evaluation process. Nothing that really falls into the demographic category, I would say.

Paul:

And, and I completely agree. And Sam, just kind of echo what you said earlier too. I mean, if you have the set questions and everything is unified, everything is the same. Everyone is treated equal regardless of what it is, then you've avoided any of those HR issues. So again, that's why setting that up is so important because it's the same questions, the same people, everything is the same, regardless of any differences that might be there.

Samantha:

Absolutely. Great. Great addition, Paul. Rebecca, I think you said that was the last question?

Rebecca:

That was thank you everyone who attended and participated. If you think of a question later that you have, please feel free to reach out to either Sam or Paul. We're happy to answer any additional questions, but in the meantime, I think we'll go ahead and wrap it up. Sam, Paul, thank you so much for this great insight. And everyone who attended, thank you as well.

Paul:

Thank you. Take care.

Samantha:

Thank you everyone.

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Ron Callis is the CEO of One Firefly, LLC, a digital marketing agency based out of South Florida and creator of Automation Unplugged. Founded in 2007, One Firefly has quickly became the leading marketing firm specializing in the integrated technology and security space. The One Firefly team work hard to create innovative solutions to help Integrators boost their online presence, such as the elite website solution, Mercury Pro.

Resources and links from the interview:

• Brand new Amplify People webpage
• Hiring Success Webinar Series

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