This week's episode of Automation Unplugged we’re bringing Frank Papayianis, CEO of Atlantis UGS.

About this episode:

Frank initially founded Atlantis Partners in 2006, focusing on audio visual engineering and design subcontracting for integrators. By 2008, the company expanded its services to include AV installation technicians, quickly establishing itself as the only subcontracting company in the NY Metro area solely dedicated to commercial AV systems.

Fast forward to 2024, Atlantis Partners acquired UGS, its primary competitor, creating a powerhouse now known as Atlantis UGS. Today, the company employs full-time technicians across multiple markets, including the NY Metro area, North Carolina, Florida, and California.

In the episode, we’ll cover:

• How his journey from electrical engineering to launching Atlantis UGS shaped his approach to the AV industry.
• The impact of evolving AV technology and the hybrid work revolution on commercial spaces.
• His strategy to building and managing a team of over 100 full-time AV professionals across the U.S.

SEE ALSO: Show #290: Finding Top Talent: Proven Strategies to Discover Your Ideal Candidates

Transcript

Ron:

Hello. Hello there. Ron Callis with another episode of Automation Unplugged. I hope you're having a great morning or a great day. Maybe a great night. Depends when you're tuning in. Today we have an awesome guest for you. Actually, I've just gotten to know this guest and he came strongly referred to the show and I think all of you will find him super fun and interesting. And maybe some fresh ideas will be available for all. So I'm excited to dig into this. I know that I have a ton of questions for him. And so you're going to, you're going to find me learning here with you live as we jump into the interview, but I have, , Frank Papayianis, and he is the CEO at Atlantis UGS, which was formerly known as Atlantis Partners, and Atlantis Partners acquired UGS. And so now he is CEO at Atlantis UGS. So let me go ahead and bring in Frank and, , We'll get started. Frank, how are you, sir?

Frank:

I'm great. How are you, Ron?

Ron:

Another day in paradise.I find happiness is a state of mind. So it's great. You know, the house is burning down around. It's great. Everything's good.

Frank:

The glass is always half full.

Ron:

That is correct. Frank, where are you coming to us from right now? Where are you in your home or office and what city and state?

Frank:

I'm in my office, which is located in Fairfield, New Jersey, which is about 30 miles West of New York city, Lincoln tunnel. Um, and that's our headquarters.

Ron:

And just for our audience's awareness here, I'm going to put your Atlantis Partners website actually up on the screen. And , you and I were just chatting.

Ron:

You're actually in the process of getting some of the branding re-engineered.

Frank:

Yes.

Ron:

Let me see if I can do this here. We'll do it this way. You and I, so tell us just a little bit, what is Atlantis Partners? What type of business you're in our ecosystem of the AV and automation space, but you play a very particular role.

Frank:

Yep. Yep. I've been in the audio visual industry since the day I graduated college, , since 1993, I founded Atlantis Partners in 2007 and what we are today, and since the beginning is we are an audio visual subcontracted labor force focusing primarily with the commercial audio visual industry space, which means we primarily focus on fortune 100 permanent audio visual technology installations.

Ron:

What would be the type of typical businesses that are hiring you and bringing you in, , And maybe then what are the type of typical businesses that are engaging you? And specifically, what are those types of projects then that you're brought into?

Frank:

Right. Right. So I get hired 100 percent of the time by commercial, commercial audio visual integrators. So companies such as Diversified ABI, SPL, CTI, Ford, AV, um, York, the list goes on and on. But commercial audio visual integrators hire us to become a subcontracted resource for them in order to do instantaneous deployment. And scaling for their projects on an on demand project based level.

Ron:

A business you said diversified, so I'll use them as a placeholder. They might be awarded a contract and rather than the necessity for them, because you know, they aren't guaranteed an award, right? So when that award comes through, then they could. Through their relationship with your firm, ultimately staff up more quickly than having to go out and hire all the, you know, let's say they were fully allocated with their staffing.

Ron:

You would provide that overflow or that bandwidth allocation that would let them bring a crew onto a project.

Frank:

Yeah. Yeah. And you know, we could use diversified as an example. So for example, MetLife insurance company , is an account for Diversified. They have a headquarters in New York city. Metlife gave the contract or Diversified was awarded a contract to install all of their new audio visual equipment in their headquarters in New York city.

Frank:

Diversified called me up, said, Frank, we have another opportunity. Could you help us out with this particular installation? The process is simple. They send us their specifications of what they bid on the bill of material, scope of work, drawing sets, et cetera. We can do a full takeoff for them, which we did and provide a turnkey fixed price to handle the installation services for them.

Frank:

And we did exactly that, and that's what we do day in and day out. And we have built not hundreds, but thousands of conference rooms for Diversified for MetLife in at least six or nine different cities. around the country. So this is not just a New York City based thing. We have technicians deployed in various cities and states around the country.

Frank:

We have them there to service exactly this kind of example, because, you know, , anytime a Fortune 100 company that has a headquarters in New York City, most likely has satellite offices wherever else and wherever else the AV technology is also needed. So for, , AV integrator to use a single source subcontractor to work with them, not only in one city, but multiple cities is just a huge advantage for everybody, just from a paper trail perspective cutting one purchase order, talking to one team or, , to get a multi city project executed.

Frank:

I mean, that's how you become efficient on execution of projects and efficiency leads to high profitability as well. I want

Ron:

to go into your background, but before I go there, I actually just have a question and you and I, , just chatting before we started recording, we, you, you started this business in 2006.

Frank:

yeah, six into seven. Yeah. I don't even remember exactly.

Ron:

So I always love, or like just the specifics, the specific nature of the origin story of the business, like in 2006 or 2007, whatever that exact timeframe was why this business? What led you to say this is going to be a great idea?

Frank:

Yeah, I'll give you the answer. , it's only the truth. I don't know if you're going to like it, but I'll give you the answer. So I went to college and I studied electrical engineering. I graduated in 1993 back in the early nineties. It was very hard to get a job. It was a bad economy. I sent out a ton of resumes and I only got one response back.

Frank:

And the response I got was from an audio visual integrator that's still in business today, located in New Jersey. The company is called barracks. Tom Berry Sr at the time owned the company. He passed away a few years ago now, but anyway, long story short , Tom Berry sent me a letter, snail mail said, Frank, we'd like to talk to you.

Frank:

And of course I responded. I went in for an interview. It was my one and only job interview I ever had. I thought I was going to go in for an interview and maybe walk out in an hour. Turns out I went in for the interview and I was there for five or six hours between being interviewed by almost everybody in the entire company.

Frank:

Anyway, I got hired on the spot and that brought me into the audio visual world, you know, fresh out of college.

Ron:

Did you even know what the AV world was walking into that business?

Frank:

Well, so,, back then, you know, in the late eighties, early nineties, which is when I first started to drive, car, stereos, car, audio was the thing.

Frank:

And I was into electronics. So I was one of those car audio guys. So I knew I liked audio. I didn't know what commercial AV was, but I knew what I was. Well, I knew I responded to an ad of, you know, assistant electrical engineering at an audio visual integration company. It had audio in the name, but I didn't know what it was.

Frank:

I literally didn't know what the industry was., which is, which frankly is true for probably a lot of people, even today. which I think is a problem, but that's a story for another day. so that’s how I got baptized into this this industry. And I'm glad I did because I do love it.

Frank:

I really have a passion for it. I've been in it now 31 years and it every day is another learning experience. So I stayed, I worked as an assistant engineer , then I got promoted to engineering on my own. And back then the engineers also did project management. They didn't separate that responsibility.

Frank:

So I was doing engineering, CAD design and project management for commercial audio visual installations in the early to mid nineties., I left Verix on good terms in the late nineties to go work for a competitor., when I went to the, the reason I went to the competitor was I wanted to do something a little different.

Frank:

So,, I became a sales engineer,, with my second employer,

Ron:

right? Cause you could, well, it was, Frank:, less, less salary. Yeah. With a commission, not guaranteed. More risk, more reward. Yeah. And I had a baby on the way and, , didn't know what I was getting myself into. It was like half the salary, but again, commission.

Frank:

So yes, gamble on my part, but willing to do so. And I did and happy I did., so at my second,, and my second employer, I, again, I was a sales engineer there for about four or five years. So, I left the second integrator right after 9/11, in 2002, and then I went to my third employer. My third employer was a one man band, acoustical and theater consultant.

Frank:

And I joined him in order to become his audio visual consultant for the theater and acoustics division., and I stayed there for another four years. So from 1993 to 2006, I guess that's about 13 years. I did everything from Installation. You know, I went out to the field when I was a project manager, just to see the jobs and pull some cable and hang a projector or two, you know, you got to get that experience.

Frank:

So I was, so I did everything from field technician to project engineer to CAD designer, CAD operator, systems engineer. , sales engineer, salesmen, and then pure on consulting. So from,, from a labor perspective, I think I pretty much did it all. And then like, if I left something out, I don't know what that might've been.

Frank:

I mean, I was never a purchasing agent, but.

Ron:

And all in all of that experience, Frank, you were in that Fortune 100 Fortune 500 corporate enterprise type application of AV and technology.

Frank:

Yeah, both, both my first and second, , employers, they were both in commercial AV., , yeah, it was, you know, more Fortune 500.

Frank:

At that back in those days, rather than Fortune 100,, due to M and a over the last 30 years,, so, , and then in 2006,, I decided to start Atlantis partners,, which I did. And I'm obviously happy. I did., I left all, I left my third employer on good terms again., I, to be honest with you, I was just kind of tired of the commute at the time, living in New Jersey, commuting every day to New York City and for doing it for so many years because my second employer was also in Queens, which is even further away from me. Frank:, you know, that, that takes a toll on you. And you know, I was newly married. I was only married a couple of years and I had a young son, three, two, three, four years old at the time. And I was just not home a lot. And. That, that was bothering me. I, I wanted to somehow try to find time to be more home, but of course I need to survive. Frank:, so I started Atlantis partners and then the question that I usually get asked, and you almost asked the question, which is, well, well, when you started Atlantis partners, how come you just weren't another integrator? Cause that's what you did. You know, where did this subcontracting thing come from?

Ron:

Well, you're clearly solving a problem that you observed.

Frank:

Well, yes and no. Well, I don't want to, I don't want to take the credit for, I don't want to take the credit for that because I didn't, I didn't see it at the time. I'll be honest with you.

Ron:

Okay.

Frank:

I didn't., but, but the question remains, why? Did I start a company that only did subcontracting to AV integrators?

Frank:

And I'll tell you the answer right now. It's a little weird, but I'll tell you. The answer is, well, there's a few answers. The first answer is I didn't have enough money. I mean, to be an AV integrator with nothing, you need some money. And,, I had some money, but I didn't have enough money to be willing to risk it.

Frank:

Run something that I didn't know how it was going to work out. So let's just say for the sake of argument, I didn't have the money. Number one, number two, even if I did have the money, I didn't want to compete. Against so many of my friends that I met over the last 13 years, I think that would've been kind of like sticking a needle in a, in either my eye or their eye.

Frank:

Like, you know, why are you doing this? It didn't feel right. So it, no, that didn't feel right. And then thirdly, I was really good at being. An audio visual engineer and, and building these systems. I was very good at that., I was less good at the sales side of it, but I was okay. So from a risk reward perspective, what I did was I called up my first two employers and I said, hi, I started a company.

Frank:

I don't have any customers and I don't have a Salesforce, but I know how to do engineering., Could I help you out and could I do sub engineering for you, but just pay my company, not me, but that's what I want to do. And,, basically, my first two employers both agreed. And they were my first two customers and I was working in my basement doing my AutoCAD for them producing the drawings and documents accordingly and emailing them out and I never had to leave my home and life was good and I was a one man band and I basically achieved what I wanted to and, I had no plan B or business plan or, you know, I didn't have a, I didn't have, , I did not have a plan of growing beyond that because I just didn't have one and I was content. Frank:, and then what started to happen was, again, I only had two customers and I was fine with that. And , ever so often, this is now 2008, I guess. Every so often the phone would ring and I would answer it and it would be one of my two customers and then, it would be like, Hey Frank, you know, you just finished this engineering drawing set for me, but I don't have anybody to install it.

Frank:

Do you know anybody? I said, no. I said, I'm in my basement. I just do drawings. So I just said no. And I hung up the phone and you know, about a month later, I kind of got the same phone call. And I just said, no, I do engineering. I hung up the phone., this happened. About 10 times over the course of a couple of weeks.

Frank:

And, and then I just hung up the phone and I said to myself, you know, maybe, maybe there's something to this. So , the next time I got the phone call, I said , yeah, yeah, I could do that. So that was my turning event of how I took my first AV installation job. And , I didn't have any installers. You were also

Ron:

the laborer at that, for that first job?

Frank:

No, no, actually, the story gets kind of weirder as I go on. So , actually, what happened was, I have two older brothers, my one older brother, Tom. for us older folks, if for those of you who remember MacGyver, my brother was kind of like a MacGyver., MacGyver is one of

Ron:

MacGyver is one of my heroes as a youth.

Frank:

Yeah, there you go. So I said yes to a small installation job. And then I called up my brother and I said, Hey. I know you're busy, but I kind of need you to help me out. I got to get this done. So , he, of course, said, yeah, he's my brother. So he figured out how to make time for me. , so, , then it's kind of a funny story, but it's, it's, it's the truth.

Frank:

I'm not going to lie. So, you know, back, this is now 2000, 2008, 2009, something like that. And, you know, flat panel displays, of course. thing., but it was plasma screen technology., a 55 inch TV was very heavy at the time. So, , even a single person today has a hard time, you know, hanging a 55 inch TV just from the size of it.

Frank:

But from the weight of it back then, you couldn't do it. You needed a second person., so my brother needed a helper and, you know, he didn't know Who was going to help him? , so true story. You know, you can't make this up. My best friend at the time was a limo driver. He drove a limousine. , he had a black label, Cadillac, , Escalade, I think.

Frank:

, so I called him up, his name was Jesus. I called him up and I said, Hey, I know you work at night, but,, I really need you to help out my brother during the day. In New York city, hang this TV. Can you go help him out? And of course he said, yeah, too, because he was, he was my best friend. I was his best man at his wedding.

Frank:

And he says, yeah, sure, Frank, I'll help your brother out. No problem. So literally that was my install team. That's how it started. So, so, , I love the resourcefulness find a way So that's that's legitimately and the reality of how it really began. So, Then it just started rinse and repeat and did they stay

Ron:

on did Jesus your your limo driver buddy and your brother?

Ron:

Did they stay on and become you know,

Frank:

they did part time or

Ron:

full time employees?

Frank:

Yeah. Yeah. They, they, , they're, they, , they, they, well, my brother, my brother's a little older than me. He retired, , about two years ago., so he's not in the business anymore., Jesus is in the business., , yeah, he still works for me.

Frank:

He relocated. Well, I relocated him to Florida. That's a story for another day., but, well, yeah, , after we re after we really got the integration,, , , or the installation team solid up here in the Northeast. , I'm getting ahead of myself, but I, I hired a business coach and we decided we needed to replicate this model someplace else in order to prove it out.

Frank:

And, , I picked Florida cause I figured one day, maybe I want to retire to Florida. So,, I basically, , Paid for the relocation of my technician to Florida. I hired a salesperson in Florida and we began, , we began doing it all over again in Florida. And that is still, you know, Florida is my biggest second territory outside of the, outside of help me

Ron:

understand what that trajectory looked like.

Ron:

If the business started in Oh, six Oh seven with you doing design work. And then you got your brother and Jesus to help with installation. , today, just today for the folks tuned in, like what, what's the size, general size of the business? If maybe just people you have on the team,

Frank:

we're just over a hundred full time W2 employees today.

Ron:

Wow. Okay. And you guys are located in offices around the country.

Frank:

, yeah, we have about six or eight locations now, six or eight locations.

Ron:

What did that trajectory look like? Was it, you know, 45 degree angle up, you know, from starting to now, or was it jaggedy up and down?

Frank:

All right. , Yeah. Okay. So to answer the question, so it was, so it was myself and, and my brother, Tom and he Sue.

Frank:

So it was the three of us, if you will. And then I hired a, I hired another one. So that made it four and five and, and, and six. So, I had about a half a dozen or so, , technicians and I was doing a lot of work for my second employer at the time. And,, This is actually another funny story,, Jesus, I don't know if I could say this, but I guess I will.

Frank:

So he called me up.

Ron:

Just us, Frank. It's all right. Circle of trust.

Frank:

So he called me up one day and he's like, , he's like, Frank, he goes, you got to come into my office. We have a problem. And I'm like, Oh Jesus. So, all right. So,, he was in long Island. So I drove out to long Island, you know, thinking I'm going to get dealt a pretty bad deck of cards.

Frank:

Of something, I didn't know what I was getting faced with. So he pulls me into his office and he sits me down and he goes,, well, we have a problem. I said, well, what's the problem? He says, well, I'm giving you all these jobs and,, you're doing them much better than my own team because he has technicians as well.

Frank:

And I was just taking work on that he couldn't get done himself is overflow work is overflow. So I said to him, I go, so, well, cool. Where's the problem here? And he goes, well, you seem to be able to manage your technician so much better than we can manage ours. And I said, okay. And what do you want from me?

Frank:

And he said, well,, I kind of want to make a proposition with you. I'm like, well, what's that? And he goes, well, I'm going to lay off all of my technicians and I want you to hire 85 percent of them overnight. I go, and then what he goes, well, then I'm going to give you all of our install work and you just do it all.

Frank:

And I'm like, well, wha, how do I know you're gonna gimme all the work? And he goes, well, I just told you I'm gonna give it all to you. I go, yeah, but what if you don't? He goes, Frank, like, I'm gonna give you all the work. I go, okay, but I mean I'm gonna have enough cash flow to pay for all these guys and are you sure It's lot's, a lot of cash flow.

Frank:

I go, how am I? So to answer your question, I went from about a half a dozen or so guys to roughly 18 or so overnight. over this handshake agreement.

Ron:

Wow. What year was that?

Frank:

2011. Okay. 20, 2011.

Ron:

So the worst of the great recession was over. I

Frank:

never saw it. Honestly. I was too small.

Ron:

I

Frank:

flew under the radar at that time. I Didn't didn't never saw it, but anyway,, so that's how I went from a half a dozen to, I don't know, upper 18, upper teens, maybe 20 to 20 people, including myself. Frank:, and then from there, we just kinda kept stepping it up, stepping it up. And, and probably when I had roughly, I'm going to say two dozen or so technicians in the New York, New Jersey area., like I said earlier, I hired a business coach and then we started talking and then, you know, through those discussions, we decided to replicate in order to prove the model because one day, if you know, if I ever want to sell the company, it needs to be sellable and replicatable and all that stuff.

Frank:

And that's how we chose Florida. And I kind of told you that little story. So that's how we launched the satellite office of Florida., which totally worked out. And then after we launched Florida, did that for a couple of years, then we launched, , Raleigh, Durham, North Carolina. And then after we launched that, we launched San Francisco.

Frank:

And then after San Francisco, we did San Diego and. Then we did Texas and Phoenix, and this is all before COVID., so just before COVID hit,, I was about the same size as I am now, right around a hundred or so, and then COVID hit and then,, COVID pretty much wiped me out in California. I had about, I don't know, 15 or so full time W2 technicians in California. Frank:, and, but I don't blame the employees for having to leave. I mean, I got PPP money and I did everything I could do, but you know, if you're not working, you're not working. So I would get the phone call. Hey, Frank, I'm sorry. I'm going to go take a job with Amazon delivery. I need to pay my bills. Okay.

Frank:

Goodbye. Good luck. What can I do?, so of, of all the technicians that I lost, three of them. I, , remained on and they're still with me today., Phoenix and era Phoenix and, , Texas were never big to begin with yet before COVID. And, after COVID, I just got knocked out of those two states., And the East coast survived.

Ron:

yeah, it's COVID now fully behind you. Like it's, it's, I

Frank:

think so. I think so., but you know, and then there were things that happened after COVID that screwed a lot of things up in the industry. right after COVID was the, , the, , when you couldn't get product,,

Ron:

crisis

Frank:

and all that

Ron:

crisis.

Frank:

So that the, I, I, I didn't see that coming.

Frank:

I don't know who did. I don't think anybody did, but,, I mean, that really screwed up. The AV supply chain,, across, across

Ron:

customers here at one firefly over. I mean, I had commercial, I mean, I had commercial and resi integrators. In some cases, some small guys went under, it was very, very hard.

Frank:

So, you know, to answer your question about COVID or post COVID,, the volatility of the chip problem created a big instability in the, in the, in the.

Frank:

In the execution of the market, in other words, getting the product and getting it installed, it made it for very choppy waters., so my life trying to run a subcontracting installation company in the years of, all of them, you know, 21, two, three, and four., the, it, it became very choppy, meaning there was very little work and then all of a sudden there was so much work because all the material came in and everybody wanted everything at one time and there was not enough text to deliver.

Frank:

So it was feast or famine. And, I mean, I hated that because you couldn't satisfy everybody when the demand came in and then when the demand went away. You had a hard time making payroll., and it's just, you know, any business owner, you know, has to fight cashflow and that's no fun. So I'll leave the

Ron:

chip shortages behind us now here in 25.

Frank:

You're asking me,, yeah. , I think so. I think so. Fingers crossed. Yeah, I think so. So, well, okay. So, I mean, again, I'm, I'm not going to get political into this, but what happened after the chip shortage? So after the chip shortage, you know, well, in, in post COVID of course, you know, the whole work from home thing.

Frank:

So, you know, we, we do commercial AV, so commercial real estate. You know, that took a dive. So that really screwed up the entire ecosystem., and that also compounded the, the, the ebbs and flows and the ups and downs and the feast and famines. so the. You, you just alluded to what's 2025 going to bring.

Frank:

So, you know, again, you know, 2025, I don't think it's a chip shortage issue, but I do think it's, , the continuous battle of work from home or not continues., and, , I think ultimately it's, it's all smoothing itself out, , for the betterment of the industry. , but I do think it's taking much longer than everybody expected.

Ron:

yeah. I, I, I'm going to translate that topic or question to the side of technology. And, and I'm just gonna, I'm assuming one of the things that you're inferring or referring to is that because workforces in some cases are now hybrid or work from home, the type of the quantity of space and the use of that space at that 100,, Business is different and the technology's changing and evolving as well.

Ron:

Yes. So what, what are you seeing? Like, how is the technology that you're being asked to deploy today different than it was say five years ago or before? Like what, what are the big changes?

Frank:

Well, yeah, I mean, okay, let me know if we run out of time. So,, there's, there's a lot here to say. So,, Okay, let's just focus on the technical aspect of this question for now, the technology.

Frank:

So the audio visual technology itself in today, 2025 2024 versus five years ago, 10 years ago, the The technology has changed a lot. The, the, the technology I'm going to,, the technology is quote unquote smarter, it's more plug and play. The manufacturers over the years of time have, have redesigned or further designed their products to, to much more seamlessly, easily, easily integrate with other, with the other menu products.

Frank:

In, in the pro AV industry., what that boils down to is simpler designs. Which is in my opinion, this is all good. So simpler designs, lower cost, easier to install, quicker to install. Um, all of these things are in my opinion, positives. So what this has done to the, the industry. So if you're. If you're, if you're looking at it from the vantage point of an end user, and let's say you're a fortune 100 company, anything, Coca Cola, pharmaceutical, financial, it doesn't matter if you're a fortune 100 company and you allocate a budget in a bucket of money for audio visual technology on a yearly basis, 10 years ago, if you allocated.

Frank:

Pick a number, half a million dollars for audio visual spend a half a million dollars, 10 years ago, I'm just making numbers up. Let's say a half a million dollars bought you,, 50 conference rooms or 50, 50 spaces do the division on that today, instead of buying 50 spaces. It potentially could buy 250 spaces or whatever the number is, you get the idea that the end user can buy many, many, many more spaces of AV technology today compared to the past.

Frank:

And what you're saying

Ron:

would factoring in hardware cost or hardware and labor?

Frank:

Well both, but it's

Ron:

easier to install, so it's, it's

Frank:

easier to install, it's quicker to install and it's certainly cheaper. Okay., hardware wide., and, and, and it's a win win for everybody, including, including the hybrid work at home employee.

Frank:

And I'll tell you why in a second. So in the past, when take that same example with the half a million dollar budget, Yeah. And the, and the integrator can only buy whatever, what did I say? 50 rooms. Well today they need to be able to populate 250 rooms. Why? Because there's that many more simultaneous video conference calls happening on a minute by minute basis with whom?

Frank:

Well with certainly their customers and their vendors, et cetera. Yeah. But also with their internal staff that are now working at home 50 percent of, or whatever the number is. So the, the, the demand for the technology, because of the hybrid workplace elevated the need for the quantity increase anyway, and good for them, they got it because the technology costs came down, so.

Frank:

Again, to win, win,, yeah, that,

Ron:

that, when you continue to look ahead, are there, do you see that trend continuing or is there anything, if you look into your crystal ball regarding the technology side, because you're, you and your team are being asked to design and not design, but deploy that tech program, it configure it, service it.

Frank:

Yeah.

Ron:

What do you see coming?

Frank:

, I see it only growing. I see, you know, it's very funny. Like if you want to continue with the analogy of, you know, 10 years ago, the end user was buying 50 rooms today. They're buying 250 rooms tomorrow. They're going to be buying 500 rooms or more. So that's only going to continue to increase.

Frank:

that's the short answer. Did I answer your question? Yeah,

Ron:

no. I, I, so for you, for your business, how does that impact your business? Is it, is it, is it, it just is? Cause you're, you're now in the same amount of time, simply able to do more spaces.

Frank:

It, it, it benefits, it benefits my company hugely and, and, and the main, well, again, this is my crystal ball.

Frank:

I could be wrong, but the way, the way I believe, the way I believe it has been benefiting me and, and that, that is what my statement that I'm about to say is based on is. We are the largest hands down audio visual subcontract only labor company in America. So what does that mean that, and what does that mean is that brings.

Frank:

The ability for an AV integrator to go to a one source company like ourselves and say, Hey, I have a project to deliver 5, 000 conference rooms over the next, next nine months. Can you do it? And because of how large our. Self employed our staff is our W2 employees are, we could do it versus anybody who thinks they want to label themselves as our competitor.

Frank:

Because what the majority of our so called competitors are, are companies that have no W2 employees and all they are. Is a Rolodex of freelance installation people that they can dial up on their text. And hope for the best. That is not a way to implement a thousand room install in seven cities across the country.

Frank:

You just can't do it.

Ron:

Consistency or quality. No,

Frank:

there's no quality. You don't have control of this schedule., you don't know if you're getting a, or whatever. And I'm, I'm not trying to toot my horn, but they don't have the insurances. They don't have the qualifications. They don't have the certifications.

Frank:

They don't put their people through the training, but yet they're going to allow these uncertified. I'm not going to say the word undocumented. I don't want to get in trouble, but you know, these uncertified technicians possibly uninsured entering a fortune 100 building to install a video wall in their lobby, God forbid, the thing falls down, then what?

Ron:

What is the key, Frank, you employ, , you employ all these technicians and you have a thriving, growing business and you haven't been running it for a year or 10 years, you've been running it for, , do the math for you, but it lots of years since I was 18 years or so.

Frank:

Yeah.

Ron:

What, what is the key or what is a nugget or two or three that you think.

Ron:

, are, are, are some of the attributes of, of running a great team,

Frank:

easy. You're, you're running a large team. Easy answer. And I, honesty, honesty, you have to be honest with your customers. And what I mean by that is I don't, I don't have, I don't have a problem saying no, like I can get a call tomorrow or I can get an email tomorrow saying, Hey, Frank, can you do this?

Frank:

And if I believe the answer is no, I have to tell the customer, no, you know, like Frank, do you have a team to deploy tomorrow morning to go do this? So, so job, like I can't lie, you know, I'm not going to say, yeah, Mr. Customer, I have somebody and try to go find. You know, two part time guys at a Home Depot to go hang a TV, which is what some of my so called competitors do.

Frank:

That's why, that's why they are who they are. And that's why I've been doing this for almost 20 years. I mean, I, I hate to be that blunt about it, but it's only the truth. So I have to be brutally honest with my customer. And, and, and secondly, I don't have a problem saying I screwed up, you know, and, and, and, and I don't care if you talk about the audio visual industry or any industry, but,, I don't know, I kind of feel like I'm, I'm old saying this, but you know, in any industry, I really don't think.

Frank:

People own up to their own mistakes. You know, it could be from getting your car fixed at a dealership or an AV problem or anything in life. I just don't think there's enough of that. And, and, and, you know, forget about the rest of the industries, but, you know, back to AV, I mean, look, we're not perfect.

Frank:

Things go wrong. Let's be honest with each other. Whether, whether it's a, a timing event that screwed up a delay, a PTO, somebody called out, somebody broke a finger, the job couldn't get done. , whatever the case may be, or, or let's just say, , something bad happened with the install. Not enough zip ties were used and a cable fell down and it looked CEO got mad.

Frank:

Things happen. You know, so I'm not here to say we're perfect and I'm not here to say they don't happen. But to answer your question as to why we're still here and why we were the first and hopefully the last is, is because I don't have a problem saying no, if I know I can't deliver. But, but I, I do try to give all alternatives.

Frank:

Don't get me wrong. It's not like no goodbye, good luck. It's no, but how about this? Or how about that? Or what can we do? And yada, yada, yada., or, you know, again, if a mistake happens or, you know, I mean, I'll give you another one. I mean, you go into these conference rooms and everybody loves glass, you know, there's glass everywhere, including glass tables.

Frank:

And, you know,, it was, I don't even know. We don't usually drill holes in tables, but somehow this fell in my scope and I had to drill a hole, not a technician. We had to drill a hole in the center of a glass table. That sounds terrifying. I mean, the odds of success is slim to none before you start. And guess what?

Frank:

We failed. So, I mean, you know, , okay. I got the phone call. Gee, I'm not surprised. Mr. Customer. I broke the table. Sorry. You know, now it's gonna take six months to get another one from Italy. I'm sorry. You know what, can I tell you? , did

Ron:

you ask that Maybe order it from Italy with a hole in the right spot? , God, I

Frank:

think that was plan C.

Frank:

Yeah.

Ron:

That, that might I, what can you tell us, Frank, about the, the acquisition? I, I did that in the intro. I read that you're CEO of Atlantis, UGS. You had told me offline that you, you, I guess someone from UGS now is an acting president within the business.

Frank:

Yeah. Yeah.

Ron:

What, what was UGS and how did that fit into your, your game plan?

Frank:

So, long story short, so like I said earlier, Atlantis Partners started out in 2008 as a subcontracting company. We basically had zero competitors or true direct competitors for a very long time, , in a, in around. 2013 or 14. I, excuse me. I believe,, there was a gentleman by the name of, , Michael Kabaski.

Frank:

He started a company called unified global services, also known as UGS based out of Brooklyn, New York., UGS became my first true and only direct competitor in the audio visual subcontracting space in the New York metro area. Okay. You got to have a competitor eventually. And it was UGS., so by definition, they were a competitor of mine, a direct competitor in the Northeast market, friendly competitor.

Frank:

I mean, I knew Mike since he started the company., I mean, it's not like I went out to dinner with him, but you know, we, we would speak every so often run into each other at a trade show or at a Christmas dinner of a manufacturer or something, you know, all good., long story short. UGS Mike Kiski sold UGS in 2018 to Herman Integration Systems based out of Florida. Frank:, long story short on that, only because that relationship didn't last, so technically UGS was sold to HIS out of Florida in 2018 ish or so in 2020 HIS was sold. Along with UGS to ADI, , security, , distributor, , UGS went along with that in April of 2024. ADI sold off Herman integration services into three separate companies.

Frank:

, so the, the, the companies broke into three pieces., the HIS original piece. Which comprised, I believe, of a group of six salespeople, HIS became owned by FieldNation. FieldNation is, , is a platform of technology, resources, Similar to Uber, you open an app, order a taxi. You can open up the field nation app and order a technician.

Frank:

So the HIS company got, became owned by field nation. A second piece of Herman broke off into a company called Herman tech crew, which is. , a company that deploys W2 technicians, similar to Atlantis, but not in the New York metro area in other cities. And then the third piece was the UGS piece, which became. Frank:, which always was, but then became more, a clearer definition, clearer definition of my true competitor once again, in New York. And then again, this happened in April of 2024, as soon as this happened, Mike and I, the owner of, well, the, the, he ran UGS. It was owned by somebody else, but he, he, Mike remained the, the GM, the GM.

Frank:

Thank you. Of UGS through all of these. , and then back in April, when the last change happened, I called him up and I said, Hey, Mike, I said, you know, hope all is well and you know, here we go again and hope you're okay and we actually started talking and it quickly became a very serious conversation, , in a positive way. Frank:, we, we gelled immediately together and,, in just a couple of months, we were able to, , Atlantis acquired UGS, , so that overnight effectively, I believe it was December 2nd, , hands down, we became by far the largest integrator, the largest, ,

Ron:

that had to be a breath of fresh air. I don't know if fresh air for, I'm going to say all the staff of UGS.

Ron:

My goodness, just listening to your story. It sounds like they were put through the ringer.

Frank:

Not a single employee had to get let go. Everybody was needed.

Ron:

That's awesome. That's an awesome success story. Yeah.

Frank:

Yeah. It's yeah. Everybody is so happy. And we, we, we, we. Constantly, we're having, you know, group coordination meetings, one after another and,, not a, not a smidge of bickering, nothing.

Frank:

It was every single meeting to this day is, okay, what are we going to do tomorrow to make it even better? Make it even better. What, you know, what do we got to do? And, and that's how the whole team is moving forward on a day by day by day basis. And frankly, we're just killing it. It's just, it's crazy. It's awesome.

Ron:

I think that's a great place to wrap it up, Frank. It's, , it's been awesome having you on the show and frankly, just learning about your business. And I know so many of our listeners are likely leaning forward in their seat as they've been listening to your story and, and. All that you have done and are doing for the space, , for folks that want to get in touch with you directly.

Ron:

I have some of your, your info here. Why don't you go ahead and shout out how they can get in touch with you and I'll put it on the screen for anybody that's actually watching. Frank:, we didn't update the website yet., but you can definitely find me at atlantispartners. com., And,, my email is frank at Atlantis partners.

Frank:

com or Frank at Atlantis UGS. com. They both work.

Ron:

okay. And then I've, I've also got a LinkedIn here. Is that, are you active on LinkedIn?

Frank:

Very much so. Yeah.

Ron:

me about that. How do you use LinkedIn? Just curious. Frank:, we do a lot of, , LinkedIn marketing, a lot of posting., , to be honest with you, I only started doing all of the posts that we're doing probably back in, , September or so, and, , And, you know, truth be told, you know, I don't mind sharing the why now when I will.

Frank:

So like back in September, I knew I wanted to come out to LinkedIn and, and post everything about the merger and the new company and the, and, you know, the acquisition of UGS. And, and I, prior to September, I really didn't post a lot. And, you know, to just come out and post and, and to have a post like that, it's just too much of a single good thing and not enough building up to it.

Frank:

So I'm like, I gotta, I gotta change this. I gotta change this. So,, I started posting like two or three or four times a week since September., And to the, to, to the extent where I get one or two or three phone calls a week. And they're like, Frank, is everything okay? Like what's with all the nostalgia?

Frank:

Why are you posting all of this? What's going on?

Frank:

Are you going to retire? Are you sick? What's going on? So I don't know. It's just, people are looking out for me, but it's, , that's funny. Yeah. The kind of the cat's out of the bag at this point. So,

Ron:

well, Frank, thank you for joining me on Automation Unplugged

Ron:

It was a blast, , blast talking to you.

Frank:

Yeah. Likewise.

Ron:

All right, folks, we're going to, we're going to sign off here and I will, I'll see y'all on the next show.

Ron Callis is the CEO of One Firefly, LLC, a digital marketing agency based out of South Florida and creator of Automation Unplugged. Founded in 2007, One Firefly has quickly became the leading marketing firm specializing in the integrated technology and security space. The One Firefly team work hard to create innovative solutions to help Integrators boost their online presence, such as the elite website solution, Mercury Pro.

Resources and links from the interview:

• Atlantic UGS webpage
• Atlantic UGS LinkedIn Profile
• Frank Papayianis LinkedIn Profile