An AV and integration-focused podcast broadcast weekly

This week's episode of Automation Unplugged our guest is Michael Wilson, co-founder and owner of Bethesda Systems out of Bethesda, Maryland.

About this episode:

Michael’s story is a unique blend of hospitality and high-tech. Before launching one of the Mid-Atlantic’s leading integration firms, he built a successful career operating restaurants. That background in service and operations set the tone for what he’s known for today—delivering innovative, client-focused technology solutions in homes and businesses across the DC metro area.

In this episode, Michael shares the story of building Bethesda Systems from scratch and how he’s evolved the business over time.

In this webinar, we’ll cover:

• How expanding into electrical work is helping Bethesda get involved in projects earlier.
• The power of peer collaboration and how Michael’s affiliate network drives innovation.
• Why focusing on design and lighting has reshaped how clients and partners see his team.

SEE ALSO: AU #304: Tech-Driven Growth and the Power of EOS with Richard Quinones

Transcript

Welcome to the Automation Unplugged Podcast, the podcast for technology professionals featuring leading industry personalities. I'm your host, Ron Callas. Let's get started.

Ron:

Hello. Hello there. Ron Callis with another episode of Automation Unplugged. I hope this video, this recording, maybe you're watching it on the day that we posted it. Maybe you're, you're watching it days, weeks, months later, or maybe you're just listening to it. But I just wanted to thank you for tuning in. Automation Unplugged is brought to you by my day job, as always at one Firefly. And, , you're also likely if you're listening to the podcast, the audio version version, you're also gonna hear that we are out there driving forward with our hiring business, amplify People, which is a division of one Firefly, helping integrators, , ultimately find the right talent. 'cause you need that talent on your team so that you can grow. So all of the amazing team members at One Firefly and amplify people, , working hard every day to take care of our clients and help our clients grow. That is what enables me to be here with you. , Recording automation Unplugged. So all of you I know are not here to hear me talk. You're here to hear, , another amazing guest, and I promise you I have another one for you today. , This individual I have known for many years, we were just talking before we pressed the record button, , that we've known each other, , I guess almost two decades now. , he is, , running just a fan, fantastic business. , I can say that I was, , we started working together fairly early in my business and, , earlier in his business. And here we are so many years later and, , now I'm honored that I get to have him on Automation Unplugged. In fact, it has taken me years of arm twisting, nope, just joking. , But maybe coordinating schedules to get, , him available and myself available to do a recording. So, , without further ado, I'm happy to bring on Mike Wilson. He is, , co-owner of Bethesda Systems. And, , let's go ahead and bring in Mike and see how he's doing.

Michael:

Michael,

Ron:

how are you,

Michael:

sir? I'm great. How are you doing? Thanks for having me.

Ron:

I, I am good. , Where are you coming to us from? Mike?

Michael:

I'm coming from the headquarters of Bethesda Systems in Bethesda, Maryland, in my little corner office.

Ron:

Awesome. And what type of, what type of work do you guys do there at Bethesda Systems, resi, commercial, and or maybe any details about the types of projects you, you would call normal?

Michael:

Sure. Bethesda Systems, I would classify as an high-end integrator, probably doing 90% residential, 10% commercial, and an ever-growing sector into, , electrical as well.

Ron:

Oh, interesting. What, today in 2025, what outta curiosity, what's the, the split of revenue that's in electrical versus integration or technology? Although I think you have an opinion that electrical is technology, so, but I'm gonna keep it simple. We'll get into that. But like, is, is the electrical, are you like 50% electrical, 50% integration, or is it something different?

Michael:

We can go into it later, but right now we're probably about 15 to 20% electrical, depending on where you put Lutron as a bucket. But I would venture a guest to say within 36 months we will be 50 50, if not more in the electrical.

Ron:

Wow. That's, I, that's super interesting, the definition of electrical. And an electrician that's, that's changing right now. And it's changing fast, isn't it?

Michael:

I think it's changing drastically. I think the definition of an electrician, way back when was a skilled person that had training in how to run romex or different types of wire. And basically when it came to a light, you needed three components. You needed a can, you needed a light bulb, and you needed a trim, and you were completely finished. And as we can talk about later and go into, , a recess light is anything but that right now. Yeah. I mean,

Michael:

anything from a luer to a special light bulb to, there are companies in our industry that are doing lights that are running off of a network switch.

Ron:

Right. No, that, that makes sense. It's amazing. I, I was thinking back when I started at Lutron 25 years ago, and I was getting trained on incandescent light bulbs and how to dim an incandescent with a triac. And, , you know, you learned about all the different types of load sources. Oh my gosh. Fast forward to today. It's an entirely new ball game in terms of how lighting works. And, and I'm just coming off of personally, I was just, , in recent days, , although I know this, this show's gonna air, you know, a few weeks later, but I was just at the Lutron Experience Center in New York City and got the full demo of the Ketra technology. And so we've, my team's visited the, the Austin Ketra facility and now we, yeah, it was

Michael:

a month ago. It was awesome.

Ron:

It's fantastic. Were you at New York City or in Austin?

Michael:

In Austin. I went to the, um, my partner John and I went to the Austin facility. It was spectacular.

Ron:

Yeah, just learning what's possible with light, just the science of light and how to light spaces and how to tie, tie them into, . Tunable lighting. I, I know Lutron does not say circadian rhythm lighting. By me saying that, I am not saying that they're saying circadian rhythm lighting, but I know there's all, all the different brands have different terms for what that light is called. But it is awesome. But then also you point out those fixtures are now being wired very differently than they have been in the past. And thus this shade of gray now between what is an integrator and what is an electrician. It's not black and white like it was a couple decades ago. It was very black and white. And now it's, so that's, and

Michael:

dare I say, we could talk later, but dare I say that's technology.

Ron:

That's what you're calling technology. I, I agree. I, I think I'm leaning towards your vote, , your, your opinion, but we'll, we'll delve in deeper. Um, back to the integration side of the business, do you guys. Generally do your projects right there in Maryland or in the DC area, or are you doing projects in different states? Like where do you take on work?

Michael:

I think the majority of our work is dc, Maryland, Virginia. Those are not familiar with this part of the country. Um, we kind of live in this tri-state area, so if I'm talking to the rest of the country, I think projects within a 50 to 60 mile radius. I think we find people in different, you know, parts of the country, they'll say 200 mile radius within state. Right. Um, so most of our projects is in the DC, Maryland, Virginia area. We do on occasion for certain clients, go out of the country, um, but obviously providing the best service. We do work with affiliates and hope that if one of our clients is in a different part of town where we know someone who does the same caliber and quality of work we do, they could, um, use them so that they could have that localized, specialized customer service they would need.

Ron:

That makes sense. , Do you mind sharing, Mike, some of the, the brands that you're aligned with, at least today in 2025, what are some of those brands? And, and then furthermore, could you describe maybe what a, a small, a medium, and a large project would be for you? Because that question is very subjective and it's different for lots of different businesses. So I'm just so people that understand Bethesda systems, what, what's, what's a small job? What's a medium job or average job and maybe what's a larger job?

Michael:

Sure, no problem. Um, to answer the first question, some of the premier brands that we carry, um, I would probably start with Lutron as the, you know, premier provider of lighting control lighting devices, um, and then the catcher technology. Mm-hmm. Um,

Michael:

I think in terms of audio or speakers, um. We rely on the flexibility and the quality of something like Origin. , We rely for some of our theater and higher output on something like Theory, um, and then maybe some of our outside, something like Coastal Source. Um, in terms of video, we're very, , aligned with Sony and Samsung providing, you know, pretty much the quality video solutions that you need for from projection and for televisions in terms of, you know, processing and other types of powers. You know, things like storm audio. Um, and then in terms of distributed audio, I think I would say we lead with something like a Bang and Olson and then Blue Sound and Sonos of course, which is, you know, something everyone's very confident with. Um mm-hmm.

Michael:

Control system wise, we do control four, we do savant. Um, and most recently and most successfully, Josh ai. Um, although I have my opinions on, I believe control systems are becoming less necessary with E Arc and Dante and different types of technology. I think, , quality, small project, again, this is all in the integration side, is probably something that's sub $10,000. Mm-hmm. Um, taking a client that has an older television wants to take advantage of streaming likes what a Samsung frame or a Sony frame with a, in a Sony TV with a Leon Frame would look like from an aesthetic point of view. So what we'd call a light one room solution or a network upgrade with a couple of wireless access points. That would be kind of that small job. Um, I think the medium jobs would be anything from about 10 to. 50 or $60,000, I would call those, the full home from the 3000 to 8,000 square foot homes that don't need a ton of technology. , A bunch of televisions, a bunch of audio systems, you know, 12 zones of audio, something like that. Um, and then I think the larger ones would be either full home integration, you know, larger homes, estate homes, 10,000 square foot plus, or, um, home or dedicated high-end home theaters, you know, theaters that really involve things like using an acoustical partner like simplified acoustics and really getting involved with seating, et cetera. So, and those would be a hundred thousand dollars plus jobs. And all these jobs that we're talking about. Again, to be clear, like we talked about, these are, um, integration or AV jobs. These are not lighting

Ron:

jobs well, so I just wanna pull that thread then. Will you equally go and sell a, a lighting or a lighting and shading job only even if there is no integration in the project? And if so, how? How common is that these days?

Michael:

I think it's more common than you think, and I think it always starts out that way. I think if you talk to a lot of. Architects and designers that put a bid package together. Mm-hmm.

Michael:

Because they're lazy and don't understand it. I can't tell you how many times it shows AV by homeowner just 'cause they don't mention it. So if you lead as the lighting designer or as the electrician, you're selling lighting and shades, and once you get in there and start talking about that stuff, it's amazing how it bleeds into things like invisible speakers or frame televisions or, you know, using a Leon Custom Grill to make a soundbar look better. Right. So I think that ironically what we were talking about is as this podcasting was, you and I first met, we were leading as an integration company. Right. I think the key to success for a good integration company is actually leading as the high voltage, because you get in earlier, right? If I use my hands right. And there's a job that's this big all the way at the beginning over here is when they start talking about lighting. It's all the way at the end over here that, that's talking about av, where. You may have lost the opportunity or they're pre-wiring in a week. Right. So one of the funniest things as we look at our pipeline now is I have more and more jobs in my pipeline that are starting a year from now, 15 months from now, eight months from now, which is so different. And we hear stories all the time of, oh, we need an AV guy, we need lighting, and we're gonna start pre-wiring next week. Right? So I think that getting in on that job cycle earlier is where that kind of comes in

Ron:

a as a result. , I was just thinking back, , beginning of this year at Light of Palooza, I led a panel discussion actually on this exact topic. , David Weinstein from Lutron was there, and, , a couple of other very distinguished guests were on the panel. Um, we'll drop, I'll have Allison drop down into the show notes for anyone that wants to know that full panel and and description. Um, I don't wanna, um, I don't wanna leave anybody out. , Actually, you know what, I think I can do it. I think it was Jamie Brie Meister was on there with me, with David and I think Josh Christian from HTA was on there. And the subject was, , positioning the integrator as a necessary, , team member on the design team. And one of the, the, the points, many of them, if not all of them were making, is exactly what you said. If you're advocating electrical or lighting, you're in very early, I mean, at the earliest stage of conceiving the project. Whereas if you're the integrator only you can be brought in so late. So I'm curious, how long have you been practicing, Mike, you and your team getting in early, and what impact, if any, measurable change has there been in your business with the totality of the sale? And or maybe the way that you're being perceived by that design community, like what have you noticed is different, if anything, by getting in earlier?

Michael:

Well, I think one of the most interesting things is when you talk about getting in early, right? When a team that's building a project gets together, it's all about who's on that team and the excitement level of the other members of that team, right? And I think early on, the architect or if there's a really high end designer will drive that discussion. And what I have found is designers. Architects get very exciting and giddy about lighting and about shades and about things that involve the design. Whereas most of them, and I don't wanna put anyone in a corner, but as we understand most of them, right, um, tend to think about AV as an afterthought. So if you are considered an afterthought and we're playing dodgeball, you're the last person picked, right? You're that kid in the back who just doesn't get picked. But if you provide something that excites them, they're gonna wanna pick you earlier to be on their team. So I feel like you end up getting involved in that project at a much sooner level, and that becomes that whole different approach of are you approaching it from that avenue? Um, now there are jobs we've all been on in our industry where there is, whether it's. The main man, woman. 'cause you get both. There's definitely no discrimination in our business because there are people that love technology. If someone's really into it and it becomes a steadfast point that this is important to that particular homeowner, sure you're gonna get in super early because they're gonna care about what that theater looks like or what that big television looks like. Mm-hmm. And we always think of those as like the holy grail projects, right? The ones that bring us in early that make us so important. So now we're trying to figure out ways to get to that level sooner, if you will. And I feel like we've been very successful by doing that from the standpoint of lighting and shape.

Ron:

I, I'm curious here, in 2025, , I have heard at an accelerated rate, maybe even leading into this year, more and more integrators desiring. To have great partnerships with architects, designers, and builders. And without leading the witness, I'll just, I'll leave. I do have some thoughts and ideas I want to go down, but I'm gonna see if you go down there naturally. Um, what, what are, are keys to getting in as an integrator? You've been established now 20 plus years, you're a veteran in the space and you are collaborating with these different players in the marketplace. But if, if there are folks listening in that maybe aren't, maybe they don't have that deep referral network, they don't have the architect in town bringing them into all their projects or, or so on and so forth, what's your advice on what they should start doing and what should they be doing consistently to change that? Maybe what their current normal is to a new normal, where they're a part of those teams?

Michael:

Well, you know, I think, you know, I. Going under the, the analogy that I was discussing earlier about, you know, when you're picking this dodgeball team or whatever as kids, is you have to make yourself more valuable to them, right? And sometimes that involves looking at yourself and how you're presenting yourself. And I think what's really interesting I. If you look at an, let's call it a b, C designer, and you want to get in with that designer, do a little research on their website, look at what their focuses are. You'd be amazed if you look at a portfolio, there are consistencies. They have a favorite color palette, they have a favorite style. They're only doing contemporary houses. They're only doing traditional houses. They're only doing historic renovations. And then align some of the things that we do. To enhance what that is if they're a super modern house. Right. You know, even if you tried something simple as using like a true fig product or just something to make everything streamlined and look beautiful, right. If they have clean lines, are you approaching them with like an origin MOS speaker that's actually just the same size as the light. Intrigued them into something that you think will enhance what they're doing to make them want to involve you. And once you're in the door, then you can actually promote all of the other things that you're doing.

Ron:

Do you, at Bethesda practice, I'm gonna rattle them off, lunch and learns, CEU trainings, events, , or any other activities to, to, as a part of that value delivery or that relationship building? I.

Michael:

Yes, 100%. Um, the first thing that we really love to do is obviously lunch. And you know, again, speaking everybody out there, I don't know if you have a showroom. I don't know if you, you know, if you have a beautiful space, if it's just a warehouse. But the bottom line is the better chance you have to sell something by being in front of those people, right? So lunch and learns, if you have a beautiful space, ideally to get them to your space is key. Um, nicer meals, prizes, whatever you can do to entice them. However, if you feel that you can't go to them, grab a demo kit, grab a computer, go to them. The more you can get in front of people, the better. And it's funny, if you watch enough tiktoks and stupid videos of. Famous people, whether it's George Clooney or you know Ryan Reynolds. They'll tell you how many nos did they get before they got that job. It's very few people that get that big break and are not told no. And if you're accepted, it's okay to hear no and to be blown off. But following that whole book and going through to everybody, you're gonna get a hit. It's the same sales rate, it's anything in life. But if you just try it once and you give up, then you're just not gonna get in there.

Ron:

Love it. I, I could keep going down this line with you, Mike, but I wanna, I wanna pause and, and change direction. And that is, , tell us about your background. Where, where did you come from? I mean, you're, you're now a co-founder and running this awesome business. Most many integrators across the country have heard of Bethesda Systems. You guys are award-winning and well acknowledged. Um, you guys are members of the ProSource buying group. And, , you also have a peer group of affiliates. , We will talk about that. I'm gonna bring up your website, but, , tell us about your background.

Michael:

Sure. Um, it's an interesting story, and again, I think it has a lot to do with, I consider the AV business very much a, I'll call it a mutt business because there's really no purebreds. Um, that's right. Um,

Michael:

so I graduated from Boston University with a degree in hospitality administration. Um, everything was basic customer focus, customer service. I've always been fascinated by that. There was something so, um, energizing to me, to see someone that was satisfied with something you did to make someone happy was so empowering to me that it really spoke to me. So, um. You know, in that industry you can go either restaurant or hotel. I chose to go restaurant. Um, started working with, um, a company called Bennigan's. I don't know if people remember it. Um, making $20,500 a year, working 65 hours a week.

Ron:

That sounds very hard.

Michael:

It was miserable. Um, then moving over to, if you're familiar with Planet Hollywood, I worked for them and then I opened up their first sports concept called All Star Cafe in Times Square, which led me to meet, um, someone. And then, , I moved from New York to Bethesda, Maryland and I opened up my first restaurant, which was a sports, I called it a sports restaurant. 'cause I thought it was important. I hired and found a really good chef, but this was now where I took a love of technology that I always had by having televisions and all that stuff and put it into a restaurant. Um. That was a successful restaurant we ran for a little while. I, at the same time, not to go too deep into the weeds, opened up two other smaller restaurants, a pizza place in a deli. Um, what,

Ron:

approximately, what timeframe was this? Like when, when all this

Michael:

was within 36 months?

Ron:

It was this, 20 years ago.

Michael:

30 years ago.

Ron:

This was

Michael:

1999. Last century.

Ron:

Last century. Okay.

Michael:

Yes. So let's go this way. The sports bar was a big success. Sold it very well. The pizza place I sold very quickly for a profit. And the deli will say, is it, what is it, meatloaf that says two outta three ain't bad. That's way we'll. However, the main business was the sports restaurant. It was sold, I was non-compete. Um, it was very interesting. I had a 100 day contract for an X sum of money to work for the new owner, day two. He said, I know more than you wrote me a check and kicked me out. So I was on my own and I was non-compete. One of my best part gave you your

Ron:

full, full earnout with that only requiring you two days on the job. Yes. , That's, that's a win.

Michael:

Yes. And we can go into what happened later, but that's a different discussion for a different day. Um, so one of my top clients, um, at the restaurant, he used to come in for lunch all the time. He was a CEO of a bank. He said, you know, let me ask you a question. You know, you had all these TVs and stuff. Do you understand technology? I said, yeah, I think I get 'em pretty good. He says, well, I don't get this. And he hands me a 20 sheet document of a proposal, and this is in 2002 or 2003, and it's about $190,000. For this home automation system. And he said to me, what is this? I don't even understand it. Can you help me? So I started a small little company called AV Consults, um, and I started doing consulting. I did it for him and I did it for a friend of his, and I did it for another friend. Then a small job that was only about $8,000 someone asked me to consult on and on the job was another individual who at the time was installing flat panels for a, basically an AV store, um, like a, like a TV store. And he was in a white truck. He was on his own and he was just hanging these televisions. And we met, and this is who now is my partner of over 20 years, brother Jonathan Stovall John. And we decided, well wait a second. If you're installing this stuff and you can sell this stuff, why don't we get together? And basically, I. Our first year was basically me, him, and what is now his brother-in-law, working in the basement of his house. I was on a chair that had two phone books on the third leg. Um, I will not confirm nor deny. I never fell off of that chair at one time or remember. Um, and then I remember we closed our first $80,000 job. We thought we were the kings of the world.

Ron:

And did you think you were rich?

Michael:

I didn't think I was rich, but I thought like, wow, we can just do one job and just be awesome. Um, and basically it all took off from there. So that's kind of how I ended up in this industry, you know? And I think that a lot of people in this industry, you know, you find a passion for it and you take what you knew and that's how we got there. So it's pretty cool. That's amazing.

Ron:

From those very early years, , it sounds like that's in the early two thousands in this century, the, the early two thousands. What, what were some of the harder, or, you know, we all. Many of us from our early entrepreneurial per entrepreneurial journey, we have like these war stories where we, you know, you suffered a bit of your per you persisted through through challenges. Does any of any of story come to mind where maybe there were challenges that you, you just pure grit got you through it?

Michael:

There was one story that's just really silly, but it came to mind and obviously John will eventually listen to this and really laugh, but basically we were doing everything now because John could only do so much. And I was sales and once sales was done, there wasn't much. Um, I started doing some of the programming. Um, so I went to training and I did a lot of the programming, um, even for like phone systems and there was a job we had to get done. It was just the two of us. And it was late on a Friday night and the rack room happened to be a spot where this particular homeowner had two cats and I was allergic to cats. And my eyes were basically bleeding. I'm coughing. I can barely breathe. He's looking at me half feeling bad for me, half laughing at me. But we had to get this job done and there was no other, we didn't have employees, we didn't have anything else, and we just had to get it done. So I just remember, as, you know, talking about perseverance is, you know, you gotta get the job done no matter what. And we got that job done. And I don't think there was really good over the counter medication for that at the time, so.

Ron:

Right. You just suffered for a while.

Michael:

Just suffered through it.

Ron:

That's, that's amazing. How, so that would've been, , it, it still in the early two thousands and then you ran into the Great Rece recession in oh eight. What was, what are you, any, any memories stick out of how you, you know, made it through that kind of oh eight through 10 period? Was that easy or hard for your business?

Michael:

I mean, it was definitely challenging. I was very proud of the fact that, um, both John and I. I didn't have to let anyone go for any reason involving work. We were ma we were able to maintain our staff. It wasn't anywhere near the size it is now, but at that, at that growth stage, it was really where it was. Um, I think, um, so I was very proud that we as a team were able to do that. Um, I think it's really important you take care of your people at any time, they're your most valuable asset. So I was very excited about that. Um, but I think it was the first time when you started to realize that, you know, how are you gonna prepare and what's diversification like we talked about with lighting and other types of things, and how can you be in different buckets and how can you make sure that you're, you know, always have some type of revenue coming in. So I think that both John and I went in a lot of deep discussions about other business ventures. And that we involved ourselves in and other things that were involved in this business so that when things started to turn around, we were, we were prepared. Um, the other advantage is there are some of us in this country that are very fortunate to be in certain areas. I'll never use the term recession proof, but there are about six or seven areas in this country that have very, very high net worth individuals that will tend to always look and spend money. So, I mean, that's another fortunate thing about being in an area like this.

Ron:

Yeah, that makes sense. When you look at, um, the business. So fast forward all the way here to 2025, you know, we went through Covid. , It, it was scary, but it ended up being pretty good for our, our industry, at least on the residential side. And then some, I,

Michael:

I summarize, I summarize Covid this way, a tech a deal. , A client will call you on a Tuesday and say, look. Covid is going on. Don't come near my house. I don't want anyone in my house. The doors are locked. Wednesday, their internet goes down Thursday he calls you and says, I don't care if your technician has covid, doesn't wear a mask and coughs on me. You better get in here and fix the internet.

Ron:

I, that's so accurate. Did, did you, during the covid years, did your business, , I mean did you maintain, were you flat? Did you maintain steady growth or did you, you guys really benefit from that period? That kind of 21, 20 through 23, 22 period?

Michael:

I think it was an interesting opportunity to springboard our businesses. Right. But, you know, how do you springboard it? How did you do it properly? I thought it was a really interesting time where, um. You just wanted to be prepared to take care of customers. And if you were prepared and you were well organized, um, and you made sure you managed your inventory correctly, um, things like not selling Sony receivers or Integra receivers, but selling receivers and whatever one you could get ahold of you, you know, you could install. So I think you changed a little bit of that philosophy, but I think a lot of that is also what came out of the other area of our industry, which is less brand based and more style and design based. Mm-hmm. And I think part of that was sort of born, or what's a better word to use? You know, basically rejuvenated or basically came to the forefront when you just didn't have the opportunity to be one brand specific. You needed to do a theater and you needed a receiver, and whatever receiver was available in that warehouse or that brand is what you had to use.

Ron:

Yeah, that makes sense. So now we're in the spring of 2025 and we have, , at the moment now, right when the show airs, which is, , I wanna say it's gonna be a little bit later, at the end of that end of May. I don't know if this will be true. So you guys and gals listening, we'll have to drop into the comments and say, Hey, it was true. But right now there's tariffs going on, , all across the country, all across the world. Um, there's a lot of volatility in markets. You know, gold is at an all time high equity market. Are equity markets and, and risk on markets are, are not doing that great or they're super volatile. What, what impact, if any, has any, I'll just keep it high level, any of this kind of turbulence. What have you seen, what impact so far has it had on your business and what do you forecast for the rest of the year in terms of, you know, up, down, flat, and any, any detail you wanna provide.

Michael:

The first thing I wanna be very transparent about that we talked about earlier is I'm very fortunate to be in an area where it's not the clientele and the people we're after is, is it's not hugely affecting us, knock wood. Yeah. Right. Um, I project some type of stable or some up tip, tick in growth. Um, but I think one of the things that, um, I've been preaching to my team is when things are not super volatile and there are things that are going around that are crazy, right. Um, the advice I've given most of my team when it comes to something like a tariff is, um, I try to stay away from the word, um, I try to focus in on, um, price has gone up. Things are more expensive. Um, for example, we talk about the price of eggs. Um, eggs is never $2 and 50 cents, plus a 50 cents surcharge. It's 2 75, right? Right,

Michael:

right. So I don't believe a pair of speakers should be $400 plus a $40 tariff. I believe speakers are $440. I think you have enough difficult customers interactions and questions. Why add more? And I think if you just look at, again, I know when this is airing, but I know there's delays and pauses on tariffs. And then I know that the tariff now only includes microchips or this type of chip. So for example, we have vendors, um, , you know, outta respect for 'em, I won't say any names that have already increased pricing. Now, can I tell you that their inventory they currently have now is tariffed? I don't know. Their product is made in America, but they take parts from outside of the country. Do I know if there's tariffs? I don't know. I know their price went up. So I tell my customer, this receiver is more expensive. If I tell the client, well, it's this price plus the tariff, I'm now gonna get into a discussion. Well, I thought those tariffs didn't come into effect yet, or I don't understand. I thought, doesn't he have inventory? So I just feel as a general rule, and if people are out there listening, I know everybody has their own opinion, but my general feeling is a tariff is a price increase that affects your business and makes your product more expensive, unfortunately. But that is the price of the product, and that's what we focus on

Ron:

if the tariffs, when the tariffs go away. If they go away. Do you think of manufacturers that did price increases lower their prices?

Michael:

Have prices gone down when Covid ended?

Ron:

Don't think so.

Michael:

Okay. There you go.

Ron:

Yeah.

Michael:

What, what's your predict? Go ahead. Go ahead, go ahead. No, I TVs right? I could tell you we could be in a tariff, we can be in a economy collapse, we could be in Covid, we can be whatever you want. The bottom line is if Samsung drops their TV a hundred dollars, so is Sony. So again, it's all relative.

Ron:

It's all relative. What do you predict for the balance of the year? , Then I'll, I'll tell you what my prediction is.

Michael:

I think what I, you know, there are really funny lines that, um, comedians, you know, and I think Dave Chappelle said, you know, I, I wanna wear Nikes. I don't wanna make them. Right. I think that's a very funny line. Um, and I think what's gonna eventually happen is I think that there will be some strong tariffs on certain things, and I think that whether you agree or don't agree with the current administration, I think what they're trying to do is. And, you know, hopefully they are to make things more American made for, you know, America. And I think those are things like produce and other types of things. I think what'll happen is like everything else, this will level out and it will just be a cost of doing business. I think, like what I said will eventually happen, it's just gonna blend into the cost of a product. You know, anything that becomes new. And we all hate change, right? But what happens in six months is change becomes routine and once it becomes routine, it becomes part of your life. So if there's a tariff for the next six or seven months and it's $50 on every widget, it's just gonna be, each widget is $50 more and we're just gonna accept it and it's gonna be norm much. Yours,

Ron:

, yours was super specific. , So I agree with everything you just said, in fact. So there's nothing to disagree with, but I, I think that, you know, two big things, two just big ideas. , One's a, , you know, the US government is. In a position where they have to roll over. I've heard the numbers about try $9 trillion in debt. They have to refinance $9 trillion in debt of our massive, , annual debt and to refinance it. , The government ultimately wants lower interest rates and some of the methods they're putting in place right now are to try to get, ultimately treasury bonds, 10 year treasury bonds, 30 year treasury bonds get the rates reduced, which would, , help with refinancing the debt. Not an economist, don't play one on tv, but that's what I've gathered. Different podcast,

Ron:

different pod, yeah, different podcast. And if that's true, like that makes sense. The government would desire to have lower interest rates to refinance this ridiculous amount of debt that, that we have as a country. And I. So he's, he the president and the, again, not being political here, but they've done certain things that they believe to be right, like them or not like them. They believe them to be in, , conducive to getting interest rates to drop. That makes sense to me. Which then makes sense to me is that again, politics, the, the primaries or the midterms are next year. Like it is not likely that the, this administration will let the pain, the economy's feeling right now, if they can help it go on past this year. And I think they'll actually start pulling back on some things probably soon. I think they just have to, 'cause they need recovery to happen so that the populace are in a very good state of mind. So they vote them back in and you don't have a political party changeover in the midterms. 'cause if that's true, they lose all the power of the legislature. And if that's true, it's not gonna, you know, this president. He is not gonna get all the big things done that he wanted to get done, like them or not like them, like there's a game being played. So they're, they're trying to get as much done in the next ver they're trying to do a lot of work in a very short amount of time, and that's causing a lot of turbulence, volatility, pain, and suffering. Um, and so all of that said, I think it seems reasonable the second half of 2025 is economically for the country better and less scary, , than the first half. By the way, we're still in the first half, , right as we're recording this. So I think it remains volatile and scary for a little bit, but I think they start to make changes in policy so that it gets better in the second half, and then it's really off to the races in 26. Now that opinion and two pennies won't even buy you a cup of coffee, but like, that's, that's in a. An opinion that I have. Um, I think in our AV integration universe that you and I live in every day, I think, , the best integrators are very busy regardless. I think it's, , there's a, the, and that's like a, call it top 5%, top 10%, and then there's everyone else, , that is, um, more, um, receiving the negative impacts of this volatility. Some of their projects are getting spaced out. Some of the smaller and medium projects are being slowed down or pulled back. And I, I do think in the AV integration space, there's some uncertainty and infect some pain across the us. , A lot of my friends and customers in Canada I think are, are in a real tough spot right now just with this whole US Canada, you know, TIFF. And so I, I think there's definitely some real pain out there, but the upper echelon of businesses, probably not just integration businesses, but that's where I play ball every day. I think the top tier of integrators are just, you know, playing it eyes wide open, but it's, they're, they're busy and planning to stay busy the rest of the year.

Michael:

That's fair. I mean, if people that are listening heard your, you're ramped, um, they're all rooting for you, obviously, right, because they, they

Ron:

hope I'm right.

Michael:

Exactly.

Ron:

Would you disagree? Anything I said, does anything seem off or, or controversial?

Michael:

You know what, no, I don't. I, I, I think the only thing I could say if I'm really just being honest with you, spitballing. Yeah. I have no idea what this administration is gonna do, and I don't think anybody does.

Ron:

Just, I don't know that they do the day, you know, it's getting political.

Michael:

It is. Again, I just.

Ron:

I'm neutral, everybody. I vote both parties, depending on what the policy is,

Michael:

here's what we say in our meetings. We're part of the green party. We're in favor of taking green outta your pocket and putting it into, there you go. So there you go. That's my party.

Ron:

That's my party. That's, that's fun. Um, are there any things that you're doing right now in your business, Mike, , between you and John and, and running the org, um, to account for what the situation right now in the spring of 2025 is, I mean, is there any different marketing tactics, sales tactics, biz dev tactics, project management, warehousing, finance? Is there anything you're doing differently right now because of kind of what're seeing out there in the wild?

Michael:

I mean, don't, or is it just business

Ron:

steady as she goes?

Michael:

I, I think, I don't wanna say steady as she goes. 'cause I've always believed, um, I think when. John and I first got into this business. It was basically there was, you know, back in terms of control, there was like Crestron and a MX and a lot of the older integrators who I have a lot of respect for, from even the late seventies, early eighties had blinders on. And they were very much, we're Crestron only, we're am X only, whatever. And John and I made a promise to each other that we would never live inside a box and that we would never stay stagnant or become, well, it's only this way. So if you extrapolate that to just general business, um, we've always felt it's important to move and change. And that's kind of how we talked about earlier about getting into the electrical division and the electrical business. Um, one of the things we did last year is we just redid the entire showroom. And the showroom has gone from an AV type of showroom to more of a design space where you may not even know we do av. Based on the lighting and based on the fireplace and based on all of the design elements as you walk through, you know, we find it just as important to show someone the three different types of plugs that go in a backsplash or the difference between linear lighting with wood shelves or glass shelves versus do you like TV A or TVB. So I think that that has really gone in such a way to kind of get you to the point of truly understanding, you know, how you can evolve your business. Right? And I think that's what's really interesting is you evolve your business constantly.

Ron:

I am showing on the screen, , for those that are watching, is this the, I'm on your website and I'm clicking through the showroom tab on your website.

Michael:

It is, it has changed a little. That room, the room you're looking at now is completely different. Um, okay. But

Michael:

again, it, you know, there are certain things that maintain certain levels. You know, like if you look at, if you go back one picture and just kind of look at basically the concept of, you know, this particular picture right here that you're looking at, it's just, you know, selling a fireplace and selling a, a TV that's recessed, that TV actually has a motorized lift that goes up and down, um, showing different types of things. The lighting in that ceiling is now completely different. Um, stay tuned for an updated pictures on the website.

Ron:

No, that's, that's good. How often do you invest or remodel your showroom? I mean, is this a, a, a once every 10 years project, or do you do it more frequently than that?

Michael:

Well, I think the best way to answer that question is I think it has a lot to do with timing and placement, right? This is our third showroom that we've had. Um, and basically we came to this showroom right around Covid. So we had a short-term lease. So we threw it together relatively quickly, and once we were able to extend that lease, um, we then, um, completely redid it. It's actually funny looking at these pictures because it looks just nothing like this now.

Ron:

All right, so I'll pull this off screen if it's, if it's that far off,

Michael:

it's, it's okay. Um, that's all right. All right. I, I'm gonna, pivot's not on my website, that's all.

Ron:

All right. Now I have your website up and I did wanna pull the thread on this. You, , you have, , friends, , businesses in your peer group all across the country. Yes. And you've done something pretty innovative as a peer group in that you are actually promoting each other on all of your websites. And so I'm on bethesda systems.com. If anyone's listening and wants to type, you know, type this in, and under the, about you have an affiliates. Tab. When I click on that, it brings me, , let me go there. It brings me to a page where I see now a map of the country. So talk us through what is here and, and why you are, are, are promoting or cross-promoting these businesses.

Michael:

Sure. So one of the things that I think is really important in any type of business is, is collaboration, right? Um, I think in order for someone to be successful, you really need to understand what you know and what you don't know. Um. And a lot of people talk about make sure that you surround yourself with people that know more than you or that are smarter than you. Right. Um, so I've been very fortunate to be part of a group and um, even be asked to be part of a group 'cause it kind of started, um, of like-minded individuals. And companies around the country that we can all, we're not all the same. We're not all the same size, we don't have all the same beliefs. Um, but we have the bo most general concept of we wanna do what's best for our customers and we wanna provide a high level. Of service and quality. And I think we all feel that if we're gonna be able to do that and offer that in our areas, what do people do when they're elsewhere in the country and how can they access different people that have different levels of technology, but same like-mindedness in different places. Um, you know, um, I see you're playing around and basically, you know, you're looking at Arkansas, long Beach, California, Mesa, Arizona, you know, Austin, Texas. You know, I'm not in those areas, but there's a lot of clients that are like-minded that are, and how can you, um, you know, keep them in mind. But then the concept of this affiliate group is what can we learn from each other? You know? So it goes

Ron:

beyond just referring each other clients. Yeah. Goes.

Michael:

How

Ron:

do you collaborate?

Michael:

What's, um, we just had a, um, we we're all part of a, a text chain that where we communicate daily. Um, and literally someone on the text chain just yesterday showed a really cool client giveaway. Um, it was like a metal coin. It was really cool. And it had a up, , a Q QR code on the back of it. Um, and it was, it was unbelievably neat. Um, and, um, a bunch of people like, that's really cool. And that particular individual sent the link to where it is. So if other people wanted to get it, they could.

Ron:

You telling me this? I think I know who that was. That, that somebody were, were they in California?

Michael:

That person was in California, yes.

Ron:

Okay. So I, I know who I, that person showed me that too, and I was like, that was cool.

Michael:

So, so again,

Ron:

such a neat idea.

Michael:

Um, so those, you know, um. You know, another person in our group is, is an excellent marketer and they do an amazing job making videos. Um, and to actually point clients in the direction of their videos or to get ideas from those individuals, um, is, is amazing. Um, I second to being my business owner and being part of my own company. It's one of my most treasured things in this business. These are wonderful individuals. They've become great friends. Um, and I think on a daily basis, we all can make each other better. And I think we also all support each other when we have bad days. Um, you know, there are tragedies in life, there are challenges in life. There are anything from, um, an employee where something happened to them, where something happened to a member of a family where you just had a bad day, where a customer. Reamed you. And it's just nice to know that you have support from other people and then you're not alone and you're not the only person that's experiencing this. And, um, I know a lot of the buyers groups, um, are looking at doing groups like this, but, you know, the best thing I could recommend to anybody is, you know, reach out to other people. You know? Um, I know there's a lot of people that are involved in organizations like YPO, um, they're maybe not all in the AV business, but you still, anytime you can get a good piece of advice from someone else in business, take it. The minute you think you know everything and you're smarter than everybody else, you're done. It's just game over. Um, and you know, those people know who they are, if they're listening, how valuable and important they are to me, and how much I appreciate what they provide to me. And I'm just honored and thankful that they actually will take some of my advice sometimes and use some of the things that I recommend.

Ron:

What, what is something, Mike that sticks out to you? Maybe a tactic that a, a business operator, maybe they're in your affiliate group, maybe they're just out there in the wild, that they practice in their business that you really admire in your business, and you're like, man, I wish I could be like them when I grow up. Anything jump out to you?

Michael:

Oh, yeah, without question. There is, , someone in the group, um, they're based in the south, um, and they may, there are three partners and they make it a point to visit another integrator in the country every quarter. Um, and, and your

Ron:

affiliate

Michael:

group? Nope. Doesn't matter. Yes, they'll go in our affiliate group, but they'll go anywhere. They'll go to any integrator. And I just think that. If I can steal their thunder for a second and to listen to people that you're on here. Anytime you go on vacation with your family or anytime you're going on a business trip, or anytime you're on a long road trip, look up another integrator in that area. Walk into that space or call them in advance. Everybody here is so willing and sharing. You'd be amazed some of the, just see how someone else does it. Look at their warehouse, look at their showroom. Validate what you're doing is right or realize what you're doing is not right. Um, you know, I just think that you can take a couple of ideas from some of these people. Um, and I just think it's just a fraction of, you know, the advice you're asking me. This example is just a fraction of if you are going to be successful and grow your business, there are so many people with so many good ideas, you really need to look at what other people are doing. And quite candidly, maybe you see some of the things they're doing, you know, you don't want to do. Right. That's just as important. We don't wanna focus on the negatives, but there are oftentimes we'll leave something or someone will leave a discussion of something and be like, oh, I'm glad we don't do it that way. And maybe it validates what you are doing, which gives you more confidence to do something else. Right. So again, um, I think the more you look at what other people in other parts of the country are doing and how they're going about it, I think it's only makes you stronger as an integrator.

Ron:

What, , I, I didn't cover this in the beginning, Mike. What, what's the size of the business today? Within any terms? Either how many vehicles you're rolling? Cruise, if you wanna say revenue within a band. I know CE Pro 100 just came out recently. Yeah. Don't, I don't know if you submit to that. We're not,

Michael:

we're not part of CE Pro 100. Um, okay. We would be somewhere between 25 and 40 if you want to use that type of, okay. So you're

Ron:

somewhere between five and 10 million in revenue.

Michael:

That's a fair way. Yes.

Ron:

Okay. So you're in that band.

Michael:

We have some, go ahead.

Ron:

Yeah. I wanted to give that perspective for people tuned in. Um, and you're one of the co-founders of the business.

Michael:

Yes.

Ron:

What is the, what is your job in the business? So like, what is a, what is your job in the second part? I'm, I'm, I do these two and three part questions. What is your job? And like, what's the normal day for you look like, look like? Is there such, such a thing as a normal day?

Michael:

Alright. My job, I could answer in probably two different terms that we've talked about. As a joke, first I would be firefighter. Basically, wherever there's a fire, you put it out. Um, the second thing would be to age myself a little. In some people I've always loved the term I never figured out how to use it is, um, I like to say that I've had the ability to stop people's VCRs from flashing 12 since 1985. Right? Um, and what does that mean? That means part of technology can be very annoying and frustrating in people. And how can you make it simple or easy for them to use and operate? So what I think I do for a living on a day-to-day basis is I try to maintain the level of service and quality and integrity from my team and of my clients, right? So every day, if I can make my team feel important and make my customers feel important, then I've done my job.

Ron:

How much of your time, if you were to split it on a week or a month, is spent, you know, interacting with your teams, whether to grow them or firefight or whatever that is, versus out in the field with customers.

Michael:

So I know every company handles things differently. Um, so right now I still do a majority of what I call the large sales or large relationships. So I probably spend about a third of my time working on proposals and designs for those large type of clients. Um, I probably spend a third of my time out in the field looking at those jobs, managing those and what's going on. We have project managers and other people, but I think it's always important just to put your eyes on it. I think it adds a lot of value when they see the owner stopping by, not daily, but just kind of having and touching it. Um, and then I think I spend about 30% of my time here working on my internal staff, making sure everything is organized, making sure the. You know, the showroom looks good and everything's, you know, updated. Um, you know, I like to try to say that I do my best to empower people to do their other jobs in their roles, but, you know, that's kind of that. And then I think, you know, 10% of the time is probably the, you know, some of the fun stuff. Right. You know, talking to my group or, you know, doing other things that aren't directly related to the business, but are still part of my day to day. Right. Um, I don't know, you know, going to a hockey game with a vendor, um, it was really fun that, um, the, , local team, our capitals, we had the ovechkin, you know, going through the goal record and, um, when he tied the record, I was with one of my builders and when he broke the record I was with another builder. So, wow. Again,

Michael:

that was kind of a cool memory that I'll share with them that I just think is really nice to have. So

Ron:

that's, that's awesome. Maybe a little abstract. We're in this age where AI and robotics are accelerating in terms of their role in society, right? If you look at, for example, Amazon. Amazon now employs hundreds of thousands of robots, in fact, that have replaced humans, right in their warehouses, moving products around. Um, do you believe the custom integration industry will have a role to play in the placement of robots or humanoid robots in homes? I don't know if you've spent any time thinking about that. Well, you're like, Ron, where did that come from? But I'm curious if you've, how much more prep?

Michael:

Thanks Ron. Um,

Ron:

I, I, I hit Jim Pierce from ProSource with this a couple of months ago. And, , so yeah,

Michael:

I think the answer first and foremost is we are considered the technology expert for our home. So if we start and finish with us and our ability to make, to manage the network, I'm assuming there's some level of communication on how the network works. So I definitely think we're involved in that level of it. Um, I think a better way to kind of pivot that in a different way is I think if I use terms like Sonos and I use terms like ring. And I use terms like ERO and I use terms like Phillips Hue, these are all products that if people have considered, um, DIY, right? Um, yet I think a lot of people listening here have a percentage of their business working with all those brands. Why? Because DIY doesn't necessarily mean DIY, right? If everyone could put an IKEA piece of furniture together, there'd be no TaskRabbit, right? Um, you know, so I think that even things that are, what are marketed as simple or easy to do are not necessarily that way. And I think there's always going to be a need for someone to be able to provide assistance for things that involve technology.

Ron:

I could see that. So you're, that's a safe statement. To restate what I heard is that that thing might get that robot at some point in the future might get sold into the home. But the integrator is, whether they sold it or not, is probably still gonna have a role or function. Getting it connected, maybe servicing it, maybe integrating with it in some way. It's hard to know right now 'cause we're all so early, but you, you have, you could see where that would be possible or likely.

Michael:

Yeah. I think it's very important is we're in technology to remember two things. One, don't ever think that you're not replaceable, but always make sure you market yourself and plan yourself to be needed.

Ron:

Yeah. Make yourself necessary. I love it. Awesome. Mike, it's been awesome having you on the show. We actually made it happen, so kudos to you. Thank you, sir. Um, for folks that have, , enjoyed, , listening and learning about you and your, your take on business, , and entrepreneurship, um, how can folks get in touch with you? What would be the best way?

Michael:

Probably the best way would be, you know, any of the social medias. . You know, we're on LinkedIn, we're on Facebook, we're on Instagram. Um, we have our website, um, managed and run beautifully by one Firefly.

Ron:

Oh yes. Thank you very much. Yes, you're welcome. Ha, he's like, he's like, slip me my 20 bucks later.

Michael:

Um, um, and I think that's kind of the best way to, to reach, um, you know, and like, , you know, always available, you know, to talk to someone, just shoot me an email, you know, I'm on the website or you know, I just think anytime, um, more of us could help each other out, um, we can. And not a shameless plug, but I do really appreciate you doing this podcast because I do believe it helps integrators of all sizes and shapes come up with different ideas and learn different things. So, um, thank you for doing this again. Thank you for asking me to be a part of it, and thank you for having me.

Ron:

No, it's my, my pleasure. And just to get all the proper shout outs, we'll drop all of this folks down into the show notes, , on the website, , one firefly.com, but also on the socials. But, , the website is bethesda systems.com and then you can find them on Instagram at, , Instagram slash bethesda systems. And then you can find them on LinkedIn slash company slash Bethesda Systems. And, , and or you could just look up Mike Wilson on, on most of those social channels. I imagine you'll find him as well. So, sir, it has, , it's been a, a pleasure having you on. Congrats on your continued success, you and team, and, , it's been a very fun conversation. Thank you, sir.

Michael:

Thank you for having me.

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Ron Callis is the CEO of One Firefly, LLC, a digital marketing agency based out of South Florida and creator of Automation Unplugged. Founded in 2007, One Firefly has quickly became the leading marketing firm specializing in the integrated technology and security space. The One Firefly team work hard to create innovative solutions to help Integrators boost their online presence, such as the elite website solution, Mercury Pro.

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Resources and links from the interview:

• Michael Wilson LinkedIn Profile


• Bethesda Systems LinkedIn Page


• Bethesda Systems Contact Page

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