This week's episode of Automation Unplugged we welcome back Jordan Littman, SEO Lead at One Firefly.

About this webinar:

Jordan’s been a member of our team since 2017, and held a number of roles, including Content Writer and Account Manager. During his 7 years here, he’s worked directly with hundreds of integrators to help them grow their businesses.

In this conversation, Jordan clears up some of the biggest misconceptions integrators face when trying to build their online presence.

In the episode, we’ll cover:

• The difference between SEO and Google Ads, and how to use both for a well-rounded marketing strategy.
• Why ranking fluctuations happen and what metrics really matter for measuring SEO success.
• Actionable tips for setting realistic expectations, tracking performance, and evaluating the ROI of your SEO efforts.

SEE ALSO: Show #287: Building Trust and Tech: Smart Home Growth Strategies with Adam Zell

Transcript

Ron:

Hello. Hello there. Welcome to another episode of Automation Unplugged. We are here today to bring you back a returning guest. , and this is going to be with Jordan Lipman, our SEO and product development lead. And this time we have a really fun show because we have a lot of questions that you all have submitted.

Ron:

Around the subject of search engine optimization. So we have not taken it easy on Jordan or I don't plan to take it easy on Jordan. We're going to give him the hard questions and, , I think you all will have fun and learn a lot so let's go ahead and bring in Jordan and let's get this started. Mr. Jordan, how are you, sir?

Adam:

I'm doing great, Ron. Thank you so much for having me on again. Thrilled to be back.

Ron:

Are you a little scared of the hard questions I'm going to send your way?

Adam:

No, not at all. I get a ton of questions all the time about SEO. And so I feel like I have some good practice under my sleeve.

Adam:

So, I'm ready to get to it.

Ron:

Awesome. Well, I appreciate you preparing, , some slides in advance so that with, I guess, some of your positions and education that you'll give us back, there are some graphics. So for those that are listening in. To the show on audio podcast. If you wanna see the supporting graphics or imagery, then , jp over to the website or jp over.

Ron:

, we do stream the video version of this interview. All of our automation unplugs are on LinkedIn, Facebook, and YouTube. There you go. LinkedIn, Facebook, and YouTube. So people can watch the recordings there or check out the graphics. Or of course they could check out the, , the show page on the one firefly website.

Ron:

So Jordan, , what I'm going to start out with here, , and I am going to load your slides, so thank you for putting that together in advance. Of course , I've got it here. , top questions. The first question is. What is the difference between SEO and Google ads? So I, I'm going to just admit from my standpoint, I've talked to many clients over many years and when we talk about SEO, clients will very commonly start to tell me about the vendor they're working with and the Google ads effort.

Ron:

And I'm like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, that's, that's not SEO. But it, but there is a common thread. Between SEO and Google ads are often called PPC. So help us understand what's the difference and why does it matter?

Adam:

Yeah. Let me just correct you there real quick. Ron, you mentioned SEO and Google ads are part of PPC.

Adam:

They're actually under a concept called search engine marketing.

Ron:

Thank you. That's why I have you here so that you can bring us the truth.

Adam:

Absolutely. And SEO and Google ads are two key components of leveraging keywords people type into Google searches in order to help your business be visible in those searches and ideally be at the top of those searches so that people will then click through to your website.

Adam:

using the keywords that people are searching for as key components of that page or ad that you are then posting. So there's two primary ways, avenues of making your business visible through SEM in PPC, Google ads, basically , or organic in SEO. So I'll start with PPC defining what that is as far as the difference between that and SEO.

Adam:

PPC is something that you pay Google for. Whatever someone types in a target search term in your geographical area, ideally, or whatever you want to be found for whatever audience you want to be found for with a certain keyword. And then Google will show your web page, , in one of those ad spots that's typically at the top of any search engine results page.

Adam:

When someone clicks through to your website from that ad, you are charged for that. , so Google will charge you whenever someone clicks through to your website, hence pay per click. , the moment you decide to stop running that ad, you disappear from those search results. SEO, meanwhile, is an organic thing that happens where there's optimization that occurs either on your Google business profile or on your website that allows your business to show up when someone types in that target keyword that you want to be found for, say, home automation, Atlanta, Georgia, and that is much more of a Permanent thing.

Adam:

Obviously, there's much optimization that needs to happen because search algorithms are always changing and you need to be on top of those things. But that's something that you're not paying for Google to show. That's through organic investment. In your business profile or your website that Google will then show in relevant search results based on the keyword that someone's typing in.

Adam:

Does that make sense?

Ron:

That makes perfect sense. You gave us another supporting graphic. We've used this graphic at one Firefly and different types of presentations, but why don't you maybe go ahead and visually describe what's on the screen and then tell us what it means. Just keeping in mind, there's audio listeners.

Adam:

Yeah, absolutely. So what we're showing here on the screen right now is a graphic that shows exactly what a search engine results page could look like here. , and at the top is something highlighted in red. It's a block that shows the paid advertising spots, exactly what I was talking about, where you pay Google to show up in those top spots below that it's Google specific.

Adam:

Optimization fields. So for example your google business profile , there's the people also ask section that's in their specific fields that google has Embedded that are native to google within those search results now those

Ron:

yellow areas on the graphic They have a nickname and that nickname is zero click.

Ron:

What, why is it called zero click real estate or zero click regions of page one?

Adam:

Absolutely. Great question, Ron. Zero click searches, , is basically a definition where someone finds information within Google and then never goes on to another website. They find everything they need in Google and then they just move on to something else entirely on the internet.

Adam:

And so within specifically the custom integration industry , zero click searches are becoming more and more important. And specifically as it relates back to people trying to find, maybe it's a home theater installation company or a commercial AV installer for a boardroom, for example. And they might just look at that local three pack, the Google business profile listings, and find that a business has a ton of reviews.

Adam:

Click through on that profile, read about the description of that business, what they offer, some of the reviews, and then just decide to call the business right then and there without ever clicking on the website. And so that's where zero click optimization it's, , on the organic side of things, SEO speaking, but why it's so important now more than ever.

Ron:

Awesome. And then I see a green region that says organic. Is that what? People listening would typically or classically know is their website summary showing up on page one of search.

Adam:

Absolutely. And so that the way that works is that Google's spiders crawl all the different websites on the internet, gathering information about all the different web pages that exist.

Adam:

And then based on Google's algorithms and relevance to what the person actually searched for, Google will then filter those results in a specific order. And ideally the whole point of search engine marketing, whether it's Google ads or SEO, is that you want to be toward the top of page one as much as possible, because the further you scroll down on page one, the less likely it is that someone will click through to your website.

Ron:

So I'll, I'll just. I'm wondering about being on page two of Google search results. Does that serve any value to the business owners that are listening?

Adam:

100 percent it does. Yes. Because what's the alternative of not showing up on Google at all? , you might think of it this way for me when I'm searching for something.

Adam:

I might not like what I found in the top of page one of search results, right? I might scroll down a little bit further to find something that's a little more relevant to what I'm looking for specifically. And so as long as you're listed in the search results for the keywords that your business wants to be found for, you have a fighting shot and it's up to your SEO agency to then help you get to the top of Google as best as possible.

Ron:

Got it. Makes sense. All right. Well, we got a lot of ground to cover. So at a high level, it is SEO enough. So the idea that someone, a business might engage. A marketing agency or a dedicated SEO agency, and they might pull the trigger on an investment in SEO search engine optimization. And to be very clear.

Ron:

By the nature of my question, I mean that they are not perhaps intending to do other things, just straight SEO. Is that an effective marketing strategy for a business?

Adam:

In short? No. And I think it's all about expectations, Ron. , when I think about SEO, it's a long term strategy and a lot of businesses.

Adam:

rightfully so wants to see a combination of certainly long term growth, but also immediate leads to. And I think it's important to understand that SEO is a long term investment, right? If you post a million pages on your website tomorrow, Google's not going to see that as being organic growth. Google's going to see that as a spammy practice and isn't going to, , Google's not going to reward you for that at all.

Adam:

, in fact, there might be penalties that be put on your website, in which case, , now, even in the future, you have much more difficulty ranking in Google for anything. Right. And so it's a long term strategy that shows growth. And so while that's important, and I think it's essential at any business practices, SEO, it's also important that you're practicing all aspects of an effective digital marketing strategy.

Adam:

And that includes paid advertising that helps you get to the top of page one right away. Yes, it's paid, but it's also an effective practice that helps you drive visibility and leads at a faster rate. SEO is just one tool in the toolbox of all sorts of facets of digital marketing, including branding, right?

Adam:

If you don't have a strong brand presence, not just on Google, but across the entire internet, your website, social media, , even print marketing as well, you're not going to have the most effective SEO even because, again, It's part of one SEO is just one tool in that larger toolbox. And so you need to be practicing all sorts of different aspects of digital marketing to have the best chance of success.

Ron:

I'm going to go a slight tangential off this topic. Jordan, if someone I'll say has been doing search engine optimization work for six months. Making up a timeframe and quote unquote, due to either the macro economy, the micro economy, maybe the state of the starting point of where their business was when this effort began, but the result is.

Ron:

Maybe the leads are not coming into their business at the rate that they would. It's either desire or maybe based on what they were expecting comes into that expectation management conversation. What is the answer? Is the answer to stop doing SEO? Is the answer to calibrate the approach differently? What's your point of view?

Adam:

Yeah, absolutely. The answer is not to stop doing SEO. That's probably the worst thing you can do. The answer is to think inward about what your goals are for SEO, where you want to be found, and also do you have the proper content on your website that reflects that? And not just the content on your website, but also thinking about the four pillars of SEO, right?

Adam:

Local, technical, on site, off site. Are you being sufficient in all four areas? And I would just encourage anyone in that situation to look inward, work, whether it's you, the internal person on your team working on SEO, or with your third party SEO partner, look really intrinsically at your strategy, your growth goals.

Adam:

And say, am I doing everything I can to help accomplish my goals?

Ron:

Got it. When, when should a business look at adding or inserting a paid strategy or an email strategy or other tactics that might raise visibility for their brand or, or improve lead generation in, at least in the short term?

Adam:

I mean, the answer is as you are able to, , in terms of the level of investment, I think all of those things are absolutely valid strategies.

Adam:

and have a purpose. I don't know if that's the answer you're looking for, Ron, but in my opinion, it's all of those things are valid things. It's just a matter of what your growth goals are and what you want to accomplish. And then choosing the particular avenues, the channels of digital marketing to help you accomplish those goals.

Adam:

There's no right or wrong way. It's how you leverage each of the tools that are available to you to accomplish what you are hoping to achieve.

Ron:

Love it. All right. Well, there's a lot of haters out there, Jordan, that like to call SEO hocus pocus or what I've put on the slide here. Or what you put on the slide smoke and mirrors.

Ron:

I'm going to just come out and say I think some agencies are smoke and mirrors. , but what's, what's your answer when someone asks you, , is SEO just smoke and mirrors?

Adam:

Yeah, it's, it's something that I very much understand the critiques of, , because SEO is something that maybe doesn't have the most tangible.

Adam:

, ROI in terms of the ROI is about visibility rather than physical monetary ROI, right? And so I think it's very fair that someone would question what exactly does someone that's in SEO do? What are they actually doing to help make my business more visible online? Where's my money actually going? And the answer is you want to make sure that your SEO integrator is practicing all four pillars of SEO optimization between local, on site, off site, and technical.

Adam:

So I'll dive into just a little bit of each without trying to get too technical. Ron, please stop me if I am here. , with local SEO, , it's about making sure that you're looking at your Google profile on a regular basis, monitoring reviews that come in, optimizing your business profile, making tweaks to it, , your products that you're selling, regularly updating and those, , making posts onto your Google business profile, , in addition, onsite SEO, , making sure that your page titles, meta descriptions, header tags are updated in your copy, you.

Adam:

is consistently featuring keywords throughout that copy. Maybe you're adding content to your website on a regular basis or updating older, stale content that might be falling in rankings and having fewer impressions or clicks, , refreshing that content, submitting it to Google for indexing on the offsite side.

Adam:

Making sure that business listings across the internet for you are consistent. Google wants to see that you guys are a trustworthy business when they're crawling, not just your site, but all the different websites that exist on the internet. And it's important that when Google crawls those websites and sees your business on there, that information is consistent because that increases trust that Google has in your business.

Adam:

And then on the technical side, right. Monitoring 404 errors, your SSL certificate, your site map, making sure that your website is safe, secure, quick, , making updates when necessary. Those are all components of what an SEO does. , also I completely forgot about backlink building too, right? And the whole concept of having other websites linked to yours, because you want your website to be an active part of the internet.

Adam:

All of that goes into what an SEO does. And so it's not just smoke and mirrors at all. There's a lot of hard work that goes on behind the scenes to help achieve SEO results.

Ron:

Yeah. I would just add a couple of thoughts to that, Jordan. One is I, I think the businesses that. , perhaps deserve the smoke and mirrors label, , often try to, to, I don't know.

Ron:

It sounds like a dirty word, but try to trick their customers and sell a bill of goods. And often the customer doesn't know whether those behind the scenes under the hood activities are happening or not. And they don't know how to audit whether they're happening or not. , we. Thought through that at one firefly and we in fact And you were actually the, the, the person that brought this idea to the table was to give clients monthly reports of the boring activities that are actually happening behind the scenes.

Ron:

So they understand literally the han hours that are going into executing this work. Do you just want to maybe just speak to that concept of, of the why we do it and how we do that for, for the clients at one firefly? Completely.

Adam:

Yeah. So my thought in this whole process was if I were spending a lot of money toward, , anything, right.

Adam:

I would like to know where that money is going. And certainly I think it's important to communicate results. It's essential to communicate results, but with something like SEO, where it's a long term strategy, reporting on results on a month to month basis. isn't really going to be the most productive thing.

Adam:

The reason being because Google algorithms change so much on a month to month basis, and if you're chasing the rabbit on a month to month basis, you're going to stray off of the long term path. And so that's why we stick to reporting on performance on a quarterly basis. But then that's every three months, right?

Adam:

And I don't think it's reasonable at all for your SEO agency to only communicate with you on a three month basis, which is why we thought of the monthly activity summary. Being a way of one driving communication on results, , and what actually we're doing behind the scenes with our client on a monthly basis, but helping them feel more invested in what we're doing to helping them understand the importance of why we're adding, , a new Q and a to their Google business profile or why we updated that webpage, , that was talking about catcher lighting.

Adam:

Does that make sense?

Ron:

It does. I, I want to, , address, and it was great. I appreciate that clarification. Just want to address one other topic and I'm actually going to disagree with you. And you tell me where, where, where you think we land. I think that SEO does deliver a return on investment. It's just a slower return on investment, meaning that.

Ron:

It takes time for the heavy work into building your brand on your website and on the internet. It takes a time on the calendar for that to gain traction on the internet, but it delivers the best return on investment because when that work is done, it then works for months, quarters, and years. Yeah. And I'll compare and contrast that to like a Google ad spend a Google ad spend could give you a click this month and a lead this month.

Ron:

But the, the net value on the internet for your business is zero because as soon as your money's gone, your lead gen is gone. Yeah, it doesn't make that bad and it doesn't make SEO good. They're just very different. And so it's really a matter of calibrating those, those tactics. And I'm not going to name any names, but I am going to describe a scenario.

Ron:

You and I have been working with a client here at one firefly for more than eight to 10 years. And that client recently, this, , I believe this recording's going to come out in early 2025. So I'm going to say recently. , in the last year built a new website and in building a new website, they literally nuked by accident, but they nuked all of the SEO work that had been getting deployed into that website for eight years and they didn't do 301 redirects.

Ron:

They didn't do the right, their agency that did that new website did not do that work and then. What happened was very sad lead gen in 2024 from the website dropped off a cliff. So in other words, that business had been investing slowly, steady, methodically into building their online brand and presence, a deep, rich website.

Ron:

They transitioned. I don't want to say mindlessly, but without accounting for the impact, they switched to a glossy, beautiful website. But that had no SEO, no content depth to it. All of the online traction on their website went from hero to zero and their lead gen off their website. Nearly disappeared.

Ron:

And so when you think about, imagine if that wasn't true and if either they kept their website or they did the right type of SEO work in that transition, they would have likely continued to benefit for years from all of their previous SEO. So I just, I want to put that out there. Return on investment is a very serious topic for any business owner.

Ron:

When they're thinking about spending good hard earned money and how they're going to ultimately benefit from that. I think rankings matter, , quality traffic, keeping people on their site, all those things absolutely matter. But at the end of the day, we got to pay our bills. We got to, we got to fund the salaries of all of our team and the business has got to generate a profit.

Ron:

And, , I think SEO understanding how SEO works and the financials around SEO. It is a low, , slow, powerful tactic. That's that's right for any business. Would you agree with and disagree with any of that?

Adam:

No, I wouldn't disagree with any of that. And if I made it sound like there is no ROI with SEO, forgive me.

Adam:

Cause that's probably the thing I am most passionate about that. There is a ton of ROI as it relates to SEO. And when you, when you get to that top of Google for a keyword that you care about, the impact and the results of that are massive in terms of the clicks, the impressions coming to your website.

Adam:

And then it's about making sure, right, that the content on your website is there and sufficient enough that it makes someone want to then convert into a lead. And, , you're right that that client, it's a, it's a very sad story in terms of that all the hard work for years that you can put into your SEO, if you neglect that when you're building a new website, all of it can go away and.

Adam:

, the scary part is, is that it takes a long time to then build back.

Ron:

Yeah. No, it's, it's hard. All right. We got a lot more fun stuff to cover here. I'm going to try to rapid fire this to the best of my ability. , a business that's quote doing SEO and they get reporting and they go, Oh, these are pretty charts, but then they see the charts and the data bouncing up and down.

Ron:

So the question is, why do my rankings constantly fluctuate? Yeah.

Adam:

Yeah. So the direct answer is that. , it's all related to the Google search algorithm. Google is constantly adjusting its algorithms. Other websites are constantly updating on their own. , and Google's, , spiders are constantly crawling websites.

Adam:

And so therefore, Google search results are constantly changing. And so when I see that rankings are constantly fluctuating, I always tell people to just take a deep breath and remember the context behind things. The nber of keywords that you have ranking on Google is much more of a vanity metric.

Adam:

Where I really encourage clients to really focus is on the keywords that matter to you and your business's growth. And what I mean by that isn't just a keyword that maybe you want to be found for. It's keywords that people are actually searching for. There's traffic coming into Google for.

Adam:

And if you are able to zero in on those keywords, And say, okay, these are the keywords that I really want to be found for because X, Y, and Z. And partner with your SEO integrator on that. , what happens then is there's so much more optimization, a deeper level of optimization, optimization that can occur throughout your website that then it really is much more clear on what you're really ranking well for where maybe some areas of opportunity are, but also then making sure that you're focusing in the right places rather than panicking and reacting to a graph, maybe moving one way or another.

Ron:

Love it. I'm going to park there. , So when we talk about rankings that are fluctuating, , what is it that really matters in terms of ranks, ranking or data? Is it that page or that position placement on the page, or is there more to it?

Adam:

What really matters is the intent that the user has and also how many people are searching for it.

Adam:

So for example, , you might want to be found for smart home. , just the word smart home because you're a home automation company that, , you know, certainly would love to work for smart in smart homes. But when you think about someone that's just searching the word smart home on Google, or I guess the term smart home on Google, there's a wide net of things that people might be searching for as it relates to smart home.

Adam:

You're going to be competing with HGTV, you're going to be competing with Walmart, you're going to be competing with Target, Lowe's, et cetera. You're probably not going to rank well for the word smart home. But now if I zoom in a little bit more, I want to be found for the keyword smart home installation in my city.

Adam:

So like smart home installation, Orlando, Florida. Now I can probably zoom in a little bit more, create a webpage on my site about smart home installations in Orlando, Florida, and then have Google crawl that page and likely we would be able to see some success. I would, before doing that though, double check.

Adam:

There are tons of keyword tools out there that exist on the internet. , that helped give you search vole ideas for specific keywords. So I would make sure in advance that whatever keyword I want to be found for, there is at least some search volume for that. But then we have to relate that back in the context of how difficult would it be for my website to rank for said keyword and how relevant is it to my business goals?

Ron:

Are there people tracking phrases that actually have no traffic?

Adam:

Oh, absolutely. And is that good or bad? It depends. I think. There's value to it in terms of if that one person that is going to actually Google app, finds your website, and then it becomes a 500, 000 lead. Absolutely. There's value in that. , but also putting that out because

Ron:

that recently happened, didn't it?

Adam:

It did. Yes. But I would then also manage expectations accordingly. Right. , if we're optimizing a website for, , a bunch of keywords that don't have a ton of search volume, don't expect your traffic and impressions to drastically grow.

Ron:

Got it. Makes sense. Well, there's a, we could go deeper down that, that, , that well, but I'm going to, I'm going to park it there just cause I, I'm.

Ron:

It's funny, , Allison and Rebecca on our team said, there's no way you guys are going to do this in 30 minutes. And we're like, yes, we will. And, , I'm not sure we're going to do it in 30 minutes. So, but we're going to keep rapid fire going through these and see what we can get covered here. , why does, so someone's asked, why doesn't my business show up when I search?

Ron:

I want to be founded. So think about you're a business owner. You're listening. And you go, well, I want to have, I want to get that dopamine hit of doing a search and seeing myself show up in the search results. Why, why might they not see themselves?

Adam:

Yeah. So I'm going to give this as a two pronged answer here because it's two separate answers, , for advertising.

Adam:

, if you're working with a third party company for your Google advertising, or you're even doing Google ads in house. , you should always block your own IP address from that ad so that you don't ever Get charged for clicking on your own ad so if you're not seeing Your business show up when you're searching for a keyword and you know that you're paying for that keyword in your google ads You shouldn't show up because you, your IP address should be filtered out.

Adam:

So that's why you're, you wouldn't show up when you're typing your own business in the ad spot. Also, it could just be, for example, budget limitations. Your daily ad budget, , is not enough for that keyword that you want to be found for. And therefore , you're just not showing up when that search is happening.

Adam:

Or maybe you're just not targeting that keyword altogether. I would always make sure you communicate as a business owner your goals for Google advertising and the keywords you want to be found for to whoever's managing your Google ads and make sure that you guys are aligned in that expectations are aligned in that regard.

Adam:

Now, the same thing kind of goes for SEO too. In terms of, I would ask anyone, well, what did you search for when you tried to find your business? , and it could very well be that maybe we just never optimized your website for that keyword, right? And the way Google decides to rank things in search results is by again, crawling websites and seeing what content actually exists on those web pages.

Adam:

And then based solely on the content that's on those web pages, Google will then show in the search results to that searcher web pages that are relevant to what they're searching for. And so again, if you're searching for a keyword and your website doesn't show up, it could just be that your website's never been optimized for that keyword.

Adam:

Or B, maybe the page isn't optimized enough for that keyword and there needs to be some adjusting happening, , or there may be your SEO agency has a reason that that keyword, , hasn't been optimized on your site. Like for example, maybe it doesn't have any search vole, but if it's important to you. I think communication is always just the most important thing, making sure that your SEO agency knows what your goals are so that you're both aligned and that your growth can be aligned as well.

Ron:

I want to pull a quick thread on that, Jordan. There's a chance that a business owner might want. To be found for something I'll just say like home theater, but maybe they have not enunciated that to their SEO agency. So their SEO agency based on their onboarding process and their research might be running down one path for visibility around certain key phrases.

Ron:

And there is a chance that that is out of alignment with your actual business goals. Or, you know, it simply might make you happy to know that you're owning a certain phrase in search. And so that really requires tight communication between business leaders and SEO agencies in order to make sure those terms are synchronized.

Ron:

Awesome. All right, let's keep going. What does SEO cost? What should someone expect to spend for this? , this type of service.

Adam:

Yeah. So Ron, I know you and I were talking before we went live here. You have a friend, I think that does a personal injury, , personal injury lawyer, SEO, right. And they have clients, I think that spend upwards of what, 10, a year on SEO.

Ron:

It is very common in the, so that's true. So I'm in a mastermind and in my mastermind , there's an agency, a wonderful agency that does SEO for personal injury and their lowest level package entry level is 5, 000 a month. And the packages go up to many tens of thousands a month. And so, I mean, it's, it's actually common for there to be 20 a month in SEO services for a law firm.

Ron:

Wow. Yeah. In that particular genre, those businesses spend very large percentages of their total revenue. On trying to attract new clients. I mean, it's not out of the question for a PI law firm to spend 20, 20 percent plus of revenue on marketing and advertising. Now in the custom integration industry, that's not true.

Ron:

So what, what, what is it like in the custom integration space?

Adam:

Yeah. The custom integration space is a little less competitive than personal injury law. And so I would say the floor is probably around $2,000 up. , I would say you can find SEO services for less than $2, 000 a month, but then I would really, as a person considering SEO services, really question, , what actually is going into that monthly optimization.

Adam:

We at OneFirefly very clearly spell out what goes into that. What that scope of seo work, , but you get what you pay for right? And so I would always caution Not looking at the price point for seo rather what you are as an agent What you as a company are going to be getting out of that seo work.

Ron:

Got it I think that's, that's smart.

Ron:

What I would add to that is to balance the total spend. I mean, at one firefly, we always talk about an integration firm should be planning on spending somewhere around 2% to 5% of, I would say projected revenue. So in other words, not to design your budget for next year, based on your revenue this year, but based on your projection for revenue next year.

Ron:

So you're spending a percentage of that future budget and two to 5% is a good range. And then within that two to 5% is your online, your digital strategy and a percentage of that digital strategy is SEO. So it really is a matter of, of balancing what is the business trying to do with, , what are the different tactics that are going to help you accomplish that?

Ron:

And then it's our opinion that. Being found on the internet is a really good idea. Being easy to be found on the internet is a good idea and being found in the ways that you care about and that are important to your business and in the marketplaces where you do business, those that's a really good idea.

Ron:

And if that's true, then SEO is probably a part of that equation, or at least should be considered. , all right. So for folks that are, , this is our last question here. So I know we're running over. We're going to, we're going to finish this solid here. I think at 40 minutes, Jordan, let's give that a shot.

Ron:

People that are tuned in, they go, this SEO thing sounds interesting. How do I interview my current agency to make sure they're right for me? Or how do I interview a local agency or a third party agency? Like when Firefly, what are the types of questions they should be asking?

Adam:

Yeah, I think any company should always be asking a potential agency.

Adam:

What activities are you going to be doing? How exactly are you going to impact my SEO? And any agency or freelancer out there should be able to clearly answer for you what exactly they are going to do. Also, you should be asking about reporting. How are you going to know what exactly they're doing? On a monthly basis for your site.

Adam:

And then also how is that making a difference, right? Any SEO company should be clearly reporting back on results and also in turn, communicating with you on a monthly basis about your goals, making sure that alignment is there and making sure that the strategy is then adjusted based on your goals. I think there's also certainly some other questions you need to be asking.

Adam:

For example, , looking at. , their previous experience in SEO. How exactly have you helped companies like mine grow their businesses? How do you approach keyword selection? How do you approach SEO in general? , and make sure that whatever your goals are, this company that you're looking to help with is aligned with your goals.

Adam:

, as long as you feel comfortable that whoever is going to be helping with your SEO. We'll be able to effectively complete the work and help connect the dots for you as far as understanding how that work is going to help your business grow and then follow through on that in reporting back to you. I think then you'll have found a good partner for your SEO.

Adam:

I

Ron:

love it. I have nothing to add, Jordan. That was, that was excellent. , what I, what I do have here on the screen for my visual folks, there is a QR code if you wanted to scan one fireflies recorded a series of a five minute training videos on all things, SEO, , feel free to check those out. We call it the five minute marketing workshops.

Ron:

And, , you can always email sales at one firefly. And , Jordan, anyone wants to get in touch with you directly? Let's just throw out your email handle. If people want to ask you questions, maybe as a follow up to this show, how can they reach you?

Adam:

Yeah, absolutely. Anyone can reach me at J Litman, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..

Adam:

Would be happy to answer any questions anyone might have.

Ron:

Awesome, Jordan. It has been a pleasure having you on the show, sir. Thank you so much. It was a blast. Thank you so much for having me on.

Ron Callis is the CEO of One Firefly, LLC, a digital marketing agency based out of South Florida and creator of Automation Unplugged. Founded in 2007, One Firefly has quickly became the leading marketing firm specializing in the integrated technology and security space. The One Firefly team work hard to create innovative solutions to help Integrators boost their online presence, such as the elite website solution, Mercury Pro.

Resources and links from the interview:

• 5-Minute Marketing: SEO Video Series
• One Firefly Professional SEO Services