This week's episode of Automation Unplugged is an interview with a One Firefly marketing expert: Katie Frogge, Senior Account Manager & Product Specialist

About Katie Frogge:

Katie is a Senior Account Manager & Product Specialist here at One Firefly. Katie joined the One Firefly team in March of 2022 initially as an account manager before she was promoted to the senior position and gained ownership of 2 products, Review Champ and Local Online Listing Management. Katie has been in the digital marketing field since early 2015 and is passionate about helping business owners find success in their online marketing efforts.

We’re bringing her on AU to share her expertise and knowledge on the online presence and review landscape, and how integrators can use this strategy to grow their visibility and credibility.

During this Q&A, we’ll cover:

• How businesses can build and maintain a positive online presence through consistent reviews and responses.
• How Google reviews and business profile activities impact local search rankings.
• Actionable steps and techniques to collect and manage customer reviews effectively.

SEE ALSO: Show #279: Designing for Impact: AV and Lighting Solutions with Keith Jones and Adam Kraemer-Dent

Transcript

Ron:

Hello. Hello there. Ron Callis with another episode of Automation Unplugged. Today we are here for one of our new marketing education segments. And I'm very excited to bring you from our team, Katie Frogge. She's a senior account manager and product specialist. Katie joined the One Firefly team in March of 2022 as an account manager. And in February of 23, Katie was promoted to senior account management as well as she gained ownership over two of our products here at One Firefly. And that is Review Champ and Local Online Listing Management under our SEO category of products, which we launched earlier this year. Katie has been in digital marketing since early 2015 and is passionate about helping business owners find success in their online marketing efforts. Katie has now been to multiple CEDIAs and industry events. Many of you have likely met her. Some of you may also be fortunate and she might be your account manager. She's one of our awesome bench of account managers here at One Firefly. So let me go ahead and bring in Katie. And we're going to be talking about reputation management today. Katie, how are you?

Katie:

Hey, doing good. How are you?

Ron:

I am awesome. I'm not going to lie. I'm a little tired. My son is doing Science Olympiad. I say this season, it's a six month season. But, he has an event this week. Actually up at Cornell and he, some, one of the events, let's just say there might've been some late night testing and calibrating happening past midnight. And good old dad was right there beside him. So a little bit less sleep than normal, but, I'm going to give you and our audience, a hundred percent of what I, what I have here, Katie.

Katie:

That's awesome. Well, I know that you eat, sleep and breathe robotics and all of those kinds of things. So it doesn't surprise me at all. And I think it's really cool that you're right there beside him walking him through this journey. So kudos to you. That's awesome.

Ron:

Well, I appreciate that. I, it was, it was awesome. A mix of, back pain and fatigue as I was standing on a ladder, 12 feet up in the air, holding a bungee cord, dropping weights. And he was calibrating it with a high speed camera from his iPhone. And I was like, it's kind of neat, but I'm totally sore and wish I was in bed. But we'll move on beyond that. Today we're going to talk about reputation management. And, you have very kindly, put together some slides for us and we're just going to jp right in. We want to try to offer some of your wisdom, to our audience. And, I'll actually just start out with what is reputation management, Katie? What does that even mean?

Katie:

Yeah, no, absolutely. So reputation management is really, it's very simple. It's just how others view your business on the internet. And there's kind of two components to it. When you talked about the products that I own here at One Firefly and operate, there's the Online Listing Management. So that's your Google Business Profile your Bing, being active on those platforms and just consistently adding new content to them. But then there's also the reviews portion of reputation management, and that is so important and what I would really like to dive in and talk about today.

Ron:

Awesome. Well, let's, let's do that. And for our listeners, I'll just describe to you visually what's on the slide. There's a definition of reputation management. It says, monitoring and improving the digital channels where your brand has a presence in order to enhance public perception of your business. And then there's some arrows going out to some different environments. It looks like maybe Google, Facebook, and Houzz. So what is the difference in the world of reputation management, Katie, across, you know, the Google or Bings of the world versus social media versus all these other places, for example, you've got Houzz here on the screen.

Katie:

Yeah, no, absolutely. So, I mean, if you can imagine perceptions are formed about your business when people do a simple internet search. So they're going to see your online profiles like Houzz, or Facebook, or Google. They're going to see reviews. They're going to see star ratings. They're even going to see your website, pages of your website, your social media posts, just anywhere that you're practicing building a reputation online. And really, it is about paying attention to improving and influencing public perceptions of your brand or your business. So reputation management involves monitoring all of those digital channels across the board anywhere that your brand has a presence. That's really in, in what it means as a whole.

Ron:

So you and I both know our customers in the custom integration industry, both, I would even say residential and commercial, but maybe leaning more towards resi would tell you or me that most of their work comes through referral. And so I'm going to challenge you. Does reputation management play into that process of decision making? Even if the majority of the workflow coming to a business is through referral?

Katie:

Yeah, no, absolutely. A solid reputation online with positive feedback from people who have done business with your brand captures the attention of potential referrals, or business, or consumers that have been referred to your business. It also signals to everyone else that your business is trustworthy. And I do hear that a lot. I hear about people in our industry that say referral is the number one resource that their work comes in through. And if you actually click over to the next slide, I want to talk about the buyer journey a little bit and how that this plays a part in it. A typical buyer journey starts with awareness of your brand, right? And then it moves into a consideration phase and then a decision phase or a purchase. And then finally, we've got either returning business, where the customer comes back to you at a later date, or you get referrals. You know, and so this, this all ties together with reviews. And it's not only about gaining positive reviews for potential referral based business, but also to, I want to hone in on the importance of actually responding to reviews as well. That is a huge aspect of something that a lot of people don't realize. Positive or negative feedback. And the truth is, is that buyers prefer businesses that demonstrate openness. And commitment to resolving issues or praising their customers for leaving feedback. And just acknowledging a customer who took the time to give that feedback. And it really does. And if you think about, reputation management as a whole and how you should be proactively doing that through your, your channels online, when you do get that referral based business, people are going to come to the internet and they're going to look and they're going to see that you've built that trustworthiness online.

Ron:

I'm curious, you work with a bunch of integrators and we're not going to name any names. We're going to protect the guilty. What is normal for integrators online in terms of maybe their Google reviews, the quantity of reviews or the quantity of reviews they have across other platforms you've observed?

Katie:

Yeah. Well, I mean, I will say that there is a sweet spot for conversion with reviews. So usually about 20 to 50 reviews is a great starting point, right? And we're going to talk about this here in just a little bit about what Google references when they're looking to help you rank online and to put your business up above your competition and reviews are a huge part of that. But really it's about slow and steady is really what wins the race. Consistent feedback on a consistent basis, month in and month out gaining new positive reviews. And also too, not being afraid of a negative review that might come up every once in a blue moon, it's very hard to please everyone. And that's going to happen from time to time. But it is really just about gaining positive reviews on a consistent basis.

Ron:

You have this on the slide I just clicked to. It says social proof. People look to others' behaviors, options, and opinions to guide their own buying decisions. So I guess at a high level, what role are you positing that reviews play in the decision making process for most consumers?

Katie:

Yeah. Well, you know, social proof is, is a psychological concept, where people are looking to others behaviors and options to guide them in their own buying decisions. Right? So it's, it's very simple. The more people that advocate for a business, the more likely it's going to instill trust in the quality of that business, which then just leads to more conversions and more opportunities to grow a business. And, I'll give an example. My husband and I moved to Greenville, South Carolina, about a year ago, and we, we didn't know anyone when we, when we moved here, we didn't have any family that was local. Some people thought we were crazy, like, oh, you're just moving to this place where you don't know anyone, but we really looked at it as an adventure and built a great life here so far in the last year. But we have a dog. His name is Jake. He's pretty popular in One Firefly. He's made it into some slide decks and on social media posts and things like that and he's...

Ron:

Celebrity puppy, for sure.

Katie:

Oh, yeah, he definitely is. He's in SOPs and trainings. I mean he pops up everywhere.

Ron:

Now we're gonna have to add a picture of him. So when we post this onto our, our channels on Facebook and, and YouTube. We're going to have to put down in the comments, a picture of Jake. Anybody that watches this interview is going to, all right, I got to see this. I got to see Jake.

Katie:

He really is just the cutest little teddy bear. And, and so, you know, his health is extremely important to me and his longevity and all of those things. And when we moved to a new area again, not knowing anyone, we were doing research, right? Of where we were going to take Jake for his health care needs. So we're looking for a new veterinarian. And, you know, outside of asking friends and things like that, and people that we've came in contact with in the community, we started doing online research for local veterinary offices in our area. And this really just plays into that concept of social proof, because one of the very first things that I was doing, and I'm, I'm in marketing, right? I know these tactics. I know the things that work, but I'm also a human and I'm also just an average person that's a consumer out here. And one of the first things that I did was I started looking at reviews. You know, in reading about experiences and if a, a veterinary office had a review that was from two to three years ago, I kind of dismissed it in a way, you know? Because I'm thinking, wow, they're, they're not engaged. There's not people that's leaving feedback on a consistent basis. And I want to hear real human experience. I want to hear people that have recently done business with that veterinary office and what their experience was and how that they cared for their animal and the love and support that they really put in there. And so that's one of the things that I was doing, and we honestly do it every day. We do it with restaurants. We do it when we need an HVAC guy that comes out, or a plumber, or we're looking at schools. I mean, even for our kids and preschools and daycares, I mean, this concept of social proof, again, is a psychological concept and it truly plays a huge part in a buying decision and a buyer's journey. And not only...

Ron:

Katie, can I ask you about your puppy situation? You chose a vet based on the reviews when you started taking your puppy there. Did the experience match what you were consuming online or reading about them?

Katie:

Oh yeah, absolutely. I feel so great about taking Jake in. He's actually going in for a teeth cleaning next week where he has to be put under anesthesia. And I feel so safe when he's there. I feel like he's safe. He's well cared for. And, you know, reviews were a starting point of that, and then I dove into their website and their care and, you know, all of those things. But reviews is one of the first things that I looked at, when I went to, to make that decision. So, and I'll just say, you know, this concept of social proof is really about putting a human face on a business, right? No longer is a potential buyer just seeing a branded logo. Or a product description or a page on your website, but it's real people sharing real experiences. And that's really what influences a buying decision. So that's why reviews are so important and consistency is so important.

Ron:

I won't name, specifics, but, when I got my last car, I went and read reviews. I knew I wanted, an SUV. And so I went in web reviews and I found what online was being reviewed as the best SUV in its class. And I went, searched the internet, and it was all about various ranking sites and review sites. I went into the car dealer and I said, I'll buy this car. He's like, do you need me to bring it around so you can test drive it? I was like, well, it's the best, right? He's like, yeah. I said, then I'll take it. He's like, you don't want to test drive it? I said, am I gonna be disappointed? He's like, no. I said, then why do I need to test drive it? The reviews told me that it's the best. He's like, you're strange. I bought I, well, I was like, that's true. I am strange, but I, I bought the car. And, I, I think that often our industry wants to tell us as marketers that, quote, they don't, I mean, dare I say they don't need marketing or they don't do marketing, but something like reviews and, and just proactively managing that and building that social proof online. Guess what? That is marketing. I mean, this is marketing, right? Katie?

Katie:

Yes. A hundred percent. And I do, I think it's so funny. I mentioned it a minute ago where it's like, I'm in the marketing space. I've been in this space for almost 10 years. Ron, you've been here for a long time as well. You own a business, but take that outside of us and think about us just as normal humans and our buying decisions and the way that we gather our information. It's kind of a no brainer, you know, and being interactive with your reputation management.

Ron:

All right. Now I just clicked on the next slide. There's a, a pie chart of sorts. I'll just, I'll give the title and I'll let you fill in all the blanks here, but it says local search ranking factors and it's got a bunch of things around it. You've circled, on this diagram, Google my business signals 25 percent and review signals 15 percent so you can add those two together. It's about 40%. So what, what are you, what are you presenting here?

Katie:

Yeah, so I'm really talking about the Google algorithm, and I joke when I'm holding trainings or educating industry experts on the importance of reviews. Because I'm like, hey, it's a real thing, whether you want it to be or not. We talk about it a lot as marketers, but it is real. And the algorithm itself is broken into tons of different, factors when it comes to how your business is gonna rank online. And a couple of the things that I wanted to point out here was that your Google Business Profile is so important and a robust profile that's being updated consistently, has photos. You're responding to Q and A's, you're, you know, adding new products and posting on Google, your Google Business Profile. Doing all of those things is so important. And it does make up about 25 percent of Google's algorithm when it's determining how it's going to bring a business online and in their local area. But Google also separates the business profile and the reviews. And while the reviews are part of a business profile, it does separate it into its own class, and it does make up about 16 percent of the local search algorithm. And it's not just necessarily looking at Google reviews. I would argue that Google reviews are obviously the end all be all, right? Google is the dominant search engine. It's definitely where people are doing the majority of their research, but Google also is looking at other channels and other avenues as well to make up that 16%. So that's Facebook recommendations. That's Yelp. That's Better Business Bureau, Bing, all of these different things make up those ranking factors as well. So that's why they do separate it is because it's not just about Google reviews. It's about your review reputation across the board. So that really is why those 2 were highlighted and it's interesting to find that Google actually separates them in a way. You wouldn't think that. Yeah.

Ron:

Fascinating. Taking a peek under the hood of how Google works. It's a complex puzzle for sure.

Katie:

It definitely is. That is for sure.

Ron:

So what we're looking at here, there, there's a slide, it looks like you've got a snapshot from an integrator out of Chicago, aVidia, and you're showing a review and then underneath of that review, you're showing a real time response. And it says, what is Google looking at? So what, what are you describing here?

Katie:

Yeah, so I wanted to just educate our listeners today about what is Google looking for to influence ranking factors, right? When it comes to reviews, like, I'm talking about, hey, it's good to get reviews and you want to, you know, respond to those reviews and, you know, monitor your reputation online. But really, what is Google looking at to help, you know, rank your business when it comes to these things? And it can be broken down in four categories. You can see here, I've got it on the screen: quantity, recency, quality, and responses. And my goal here was just to really educate people to help them understand what the goal is with gaining positive reviews, or not just positive reviews, but just reviews in general. When we talk about review quantity, it's really the number of reviews that a business has, and it is an indicator to Google of how popular that business is. And a lot of people ask me, and you actually asked me a moment ago, how many reviews should a business have? And again, I stated that anywhere between 20 and 50 is a good starting point. It is a sweet spot for a higher conversion, a customer conversion rate. Right? Them actually reaching out to you, inquiring about your services and opening an opportunity for a potential job. But really, it's not just about gaining that 20 to 50 reviews. I don't want people to think that's what I'm saying. It's really about slow and steady. That's that's what we're in wins the race. I want people to be aware that a large influx of reviews all at one time, whether it's within a couple of days or a couple of weeks, or even within a month can really trigger Google spam filters. So people always want to know what is that sweet spot? If I have a hundred reviews, I'm going to be constantly ranking high on Google, and that's just not the case. And so review quantity is extremely important, but I think the following three points are really what is the most important. And the next one would be recency. You know, Google is prioritizing businesses with a steady flow of recent feedback and that reflects a current engaged customer base. You know, that's really what they're looking for. That's why just one set of reviews isn't necessarily the number, number one goal there.

Ron:

So it would be bad if somebody went and worked really hard for like a quarter, cranked in a bunch of reviews, and then stopped getting reviews. Like how would Google review that or how would Google perceive that? If, if let's pretend they did that.

Katie:

Yeah, no, that's a great question. Google is extremely smart. They're very, very smart. Their algorithm is very smart and they would look at that as a little bit spammy, to be honest. You know, it is important to, again, recency is important. Quantity is important, but if you were to pump out, like you said, a large number of, of reviews in a period, and then your customer base drops off, you can kind of look at it as, you know, how a consumer would look at it in a way, too. If I was looking at that business, and I saw that in the month of 2 months ago, they gained 25 positive reviews. And now we're looking at, you know, 6 months down the line from when those reviews were left. And there's no engagement there anymore. That to me just screams fishy.

Ron:

What happened to the business? Did they go out of business?

Katie:

What happened to the business, you know? And people, people aren't dumb, you know, people know that businesses solicit for reviews and it's very easy to say, Hey, they were really trying to gain some positive feedback to either bury a negative review or up their star rating or whatever the case is, and then they've just dropped off. So how genuine is that feedback? You know, and Google kind of looks at it in that way as well.

Ron:

No, that, that makes sense. Your last slide here is client success story and it says Synergy Integrated Systems. What, what was the, what was the project here?

Katie:

Yeah, so this, Synergy is a great example of a client that really takes reputation management seriously. I've worked with them. I've educated them and they've, you know, been, involved in this process for a long time. And it's interesting at the beginning of the year, this year. They had a 4.5 star rating on Google, and they had a decent amount of reviews, but they've really been adopting this concept of reputation management. And, you know, I do think that a responsible business owner will take hold of this concept and be very diligent in maintaining their reputation online. And Synergy is a great example of that. They have not only gained a significant number of positive reviews in the last year, but they also have been able to increase their star rating from a 4.5 to a five star, which is just incredible. It's a great success story.

Ron:

Does a business need a five star rating? Is it five star or bust, or is there an acceptable range, which is still deemed to be a quality score for a business?

Katie:

Yeah, that's a great question. Five star or bust is not the answer. Actually, you know, a 4.5 is a great star rating. I would say anything 4.5 and above, is a great star rating. A lot of people think that a 4.7 is not good enough. They want to hit that five star rating. But in reality, that truly doesn't matter, as long as you're within that range. I wouldn't even argue to say that a four star rating is not the end of the world. I think that it's really about the review quality, the review recency and the amount of feedback that you're constantly getting from your customers. Again, we can't please everyone, you know, there's always going to be a bad apple. So I would focus all day and every day on, again, just getting more quality reviews and more quantity on a consistent basis.

Ron:

So you've covered the ground of why reviews matter, Katie. I now would love you to cover. How do you actually get them? And again, not being self promotional to us or to our tools, but just big picture. Folks that go, man, I believe you, Katie, this seems like something I should pay attention to. What are the proven methods or techniques that you've seen work?

Katie:

Yeah, absolutely. That's a great question. There's tons of ways that you can organically try to gain positive reviews. A couple of just really simple things that you could implement pretty quickly is maybe something in your email signature. You could link to your Google business profile and add that into your email signature. Maybe invoices, you know, having a QR code on an invoice or, that links to the Google profile or any, you know, other profile across the Internet. You can organically ask, obviously, you know, when you, just for our industry sake, let's say, someone is wrapping up a job. They're finishing an install. It's very easy for them just to say, Hey, would you mind leaving us a review on Google? All of those are great concepts, and some work really well and others not so much. I would say that organically asking is probably the least successful, and I'll explain why. Because if you think about it, I mean, I'm sure, Ron, you've been asked to leave a review before for a business organically, and you let's just paint a picture. Let's say that you had a beautiful experience with that business. They exceeded your expectations, and in your heart of hearts, you really wanted to go and leave them a review. But you had to go help Max with his, project. Piper, your dog has to go to the vet, you know, you've got obligations and things and family things. And my point is, is that life shows up. Right? And when life shows up, it's very easy for us to put those things on the back burner. And it doesn't mean that we're bad people. It's just that we're human, right? And that business owner did not put a process in front of me to be able to make it easy for me. Right? So there's tons of softwares out there, that can help make this process easier. Shameful plug, One Firefly has a software, that I actually manage that we can do that for you. And it just makes it super, super easy to solicit feedback via text message and a quick link to your customer. And there's, again, there's tons of softwares out there that can do this.

Ron:

Walk us through the recommendation. How does, how should someone listening, how would they engage the customer to, to have a higher probability of ultimately yielding a review online?

Katie:

Yeah, absolutely. So step one, what I would tell anyone that I'm talking to this about, is to ask when you're face to face with your customer. You know, through an email or through a follow up later on or something like that. Yes, you're still putting the opportunity in front of them, by all means do that. But face to face connection is going to yield about a 30 to 35 to 40 percent conversion rate. Whereas through an email or something like that is only going to be about 10 to 15%. So step one is really just being in front of your customer. I would encourage that when you're in front of your customer that you ask them about their experience. Try to resolve any issues that they might have before you go and ask them to leave you a review. Gauge their satisfaction level. Try to resolve those issues. And then I would go in and ask for a favor. Asking for a favor just really influences the person that's being asked to want to provide help. And once you've done that, I would say be humble, and go in and request that review. I was working with, a business just yesterday that's been in business for 44 years. You know, a longstanding reputation in the community. Lots of referral based business but there's an influx of people moving into this community, houses being built, all of these things. And they really needed to ramp up their online reputation through all of this education. As I've just done with you, I was able to convince them, Hey, this is a good idea. And my advice to them was just be humble. Hey, we've been in business for 44 years, but we're really working on building up our online reputation. Would you mind leaving us a review? And they're going to say yes, every single time. And if you have a piece of software that makes it easy to put a process in front of them, then your success rate is going to be much, much higher.

Ron:

What would be your closing argument to anyone watching or listening to this interview, Katie, in terms of your advice on how and why they should take their online reputation seriously.

Katie:

Yeah, I, I said it before and i'll say it again and I say it a lot of times when I'm talking to people about this is that I truly believe in my heart of hearts that a responsible business owner will take control of their online reputation and will rally their team around them to help them build that reputation up. It can't be just that one person. It has to be a bottom effort across the team. And everyone needs to have that. We talk about it here at OneFirefly a lot. Owner mentality versus renter, you know, and, and I would also tie in just the concept of social proof. It is a real thing. I think that we've all experienced it. And again, a responsible business owner will a hundred percent take action and take this bull by the horns and make sure that they're managing their reputation.

Ron:

If you were to offer a free tip that would increase the probability of getting a team engaged, what would that be? What's the best way to get a team mobilized? So it's not just the business owner, you know, trying to make this happen, but how could they get, as you said, the owners on their team, the people that are leaning in and want to see the company succeed, what would you advise that they look at or what the, what they should do?

Katie:

Yeah, that's a that's a great question. I would advise that they gamify this process. People are influenced by, prizes and competition and money and all kinds of different things. And, especially if you're in a sales role or something like that, salespeople are influenced by bonuses and sales and different things. So I would 100 percent gamify it. I have some customers that pay out just as an example, $5 for every review request that was sent out using a software that can be tracked on. And then $30 for every positive review that the person on their team gains. So they're getting recognized for not only just participating in it, but also for gaining that positive feedback. Gift cards, PTO, days off, like whatever it is, whatever that influences your team, I would gamify this process across the board.

Ron:

Love it. Katie, thank you for joining me on this very special episode, a marketing education episode of Automation Unplugged.

Katie:

Thank you. I appreciate it. Thanks for asking me to come on. It's been a lot of fun. I was a little nervous at first, but I've had a lot of fun doing this. So thanks Ron.

Ron:

Katie, you're a natural. So you, you, you did a great job.

Katie:

Thanks. See you soon. All right. See you soon.

Ron Callis is the CEO of One Firefly, LLC, a digital marketing agency based out of South Florida and creator of Automation Unplugged. Founded in 2007, One Firefly has quickly became the leading marketing firm specializing in the integrated technology and security space. The One Firefly team work hard to create innovative solutions to help Integrators boost their online presence, such as the elite website solution, Mercury Pro.

Resources and links from the interview:

• The Power of Reputation: 3 Ways Online Reviews Help Grow Your Business
• One Firefly’s Review Champ service