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This week's episode of Automation Unplugged in our Marketing Experts segment, we’re diving into one of the most essential drivers of business success: people and culture.

Every company says they have a great culture, but what does that really mean — and how do you build one that lasts?

To help us unpack that, we’re joined by Andrew Pino, Executive Vice President at One Firefly and Amplify People. Andrew has played a key role in shaping One Firefly’s team and culture, leading hiring, leadership development, and growth initiatives across a fully remote organization.

About this episode:

This episode is hosted by Kat Wheeler, and together she and Andrew explore:

• What separates a company that lives its values from one that just lists them on a website
• How intentional leadership creates thriving teams
• And why investing in people is the smartest business strategy of all

SEE ALSO: #338: Carley Knobloch on Bridging Design and Technology in Luxury Homes

Transcript

Kat:

Hi everyone, and welcome to our next episode of Automation Unplugged Marketing Experts. I'm your host, Katharine Wheeler, and if you've ever hired someone who looked perfect on paper but just didn't quite click, this episode is for you because while marketing and operations might scale your business, it's people who really shape what the business becomes. Joining me today is Andrew Pino, the Executive Vice President here at One Firefly, and amplify people. Andrew has helped shape our company culture, leading hiring and leadership development initiatives. And he builds teams that truly work together, even in a remote first world. So Andrew, thank you so much for being here.

Andrew:

Good to be with you, Kat, this, I'm looking forward to it. You guys have been having some great episodes. I, it's fun to be on here with you.

Kat:

Me too. It's, it, we're, we're very excited to have you on the show today. And before we dive in, I'd like to tell you to tell everyone a little bit about yourself, what you do here at One Firefly, and maybe just a little bit about what keeps you motivated on the people side of leadership.

Andrew:

Sure. Yeah. I joined one Firefly about four years ago. I, it's after having, uh, uh. Career in live production and live events, uh, as well as a long corporate career at a national media company. And, uh, after doing a few years of executive consulting, I ran across this business one Firefly. I think I was looking for my next gig in the consulting front. And, uh. Met up with Ron and Taylor and Tina and started having conversations about what they were looking for, and it was really neat when you can align gift mix and skillset to a role. Maybe it's not exactly what's written on the paper, but you're realizing, Ooh, this could be the right culture fit. This could be the thing that helps drive. Plus forward. Uh, and that's kind of how we came together. So I've been here, we were only of a team of about 30 when I got here, and we're over 75 now. And, uh, have gotten to be a part of crafting that strategy of how to grow a team and not dilute culture and the process and hold true to your core values, et cetera. Uh, and it's been a blast. So it's been a lot of fun to do that. And then my role as EVP over this business and amplify people has just allowed me to leverage those, uh, things that I'm passionate about, my gift mix and skillset for people and leadership. Uh, it's been a blast. It's been a blast.

Kat:

Oh, I love it. I, you have an interesting background, so, uh, we'll dive into that a little as we go to. Sure. But let us start with the big picture.

Andrew:

Mm-hmm.

Kat:

Every company out there says that they have a great culture. Few, very few actually define what that means. So from your perspective, what separates a company that lives in its culture from one who just like lists it on a slide deck and that's it.

Andrew:

That's a great question. I, I think many, you'd be remiss if you're a business owner, operator today to not have probably some version of a set of core values or a ethos that you operate from, but so many that become something that lives on a website or maybe on a wall in your office, you know, or in your warehouse space. You know, there's the, this who we are, I always think of the, uh, episodes of the office, Michael Scott having like the posters on the wall. Yeah. If that's all it is, if it lives on the wall, it dies on the wall. And the truth is, if you can live that out, if you're actually trying to, uh, work that into the terminology of who you are, as well as talking about it regularly with your leaders and your team members, I think that's what translates it from being something that's like maybe we aspire to or something that's inspirational in a, in a message versus a living out sort of, this is who we are, this is how we operate, kind of thing.

Kat:

And some leaders talk about intentional culture. Is that kind of what that means? Can you share what that looks like on a day-to-day? Like how you build it versus hoping? Just hoping it happens organically. 'cause again, it's on your poster next year. Hang in there cat. You.

Andrew:

That's right. I've got a post-it note on my laptop that says, great culture. Um, you know, I, I think everybody here probably has been to a conference or an event where you get on that emotional high of, wow, that was powerful. That resonated with me. I'm taking that back to my team. I. And the truth is, unless there's practical measures about how you're gonna do that and implement that in your team, it dies there. You know, it's a, it's a sort of a slow death in the background. I think intentional culture means, you know, it often takes more time than we're willing to admit. It often takes more investment of, uh, emotional. Toll as a leader, then we like to admit, I think there's a, there's you, you can say all of these things about people first and about culture first. But if you're not modeling that in your time, maybe it's your, not only your weekly maybe team meeting, but one-on-ones with your team members and maybe even some of their more senior team members. It's not going to resonate because again, it'll just be something that sounds really good, but we're not living it out Practica practically. Um, I know for me. Part of what has helped us not dilute the culture of, of one firefly and amplify people is staying consistent to that when we were 30 people as much as when we're 80 people. Um, and, and like I said, that takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of investment. And a business owner out here might be saying, I don't have the time for that. I would argue you don't, you don't have the ability to just. Write, write that off. You know, you don't want to just assume, well, I need to focus on this instead, if you will, so into the people in your organization. I promise you the strength of that organization and the tangible metrics like revenue and profit will follow if you've got right people, right seat, and you're investing in them regularly, and it's a very intentional use of your time and energy. That's how you're going to see that. And not everybody buys that on the front end. And a lot of people say, oh, that sounds really nice, and how warm and fuzzy uh, does that sound? I can just tell you from 25 years of leading people consistently, if you will do that. It brings the results you're trying to achieve. 'cause I'm, listen, I'm as tenacious as the next person. I want to hit our sales goals. I want to hit our growth goals. Uh, but I truly believe that as a leader, me investing in those people and them firing on all cylinders and feeling like they're thriving in their, in their career, not just a job, but a career with purpose. That's how we win.

Kat:

And that, I mean, I think, 'cause we're kind of talking the big picture here.

Andrew:

Sure.

Kat:

The cost of, or the time or, you know, level of investment, whether that's resources or money or people or whatever that is to keep people to, to build a good culture and to, to really invest in your employees is far less of a cost than what that kind of. Turnover is because hiring new people and the investment in that and the time that that takes and training new people. So what I hear is that, and plus when people are with you for a long time, they feel valued and wanna help your company. Is that like all, this is all what we're talking about in culture, so it's not just about people, it's about growing the business as well.

Andrew:

A hundred percent. This is, uh, what's that funny quote? Sort of, this is chess, not checkers. You know, you're thinking multiple moves ahead as a leader, or you should be, and that includes how you, you know, grow and shape careers for others. I mean, I think if you're good at your job as a leader. By the way, I wanna say that I believe that that is a part of a, of a calling, if you will, like just to move up in seniority in an organization. If the only path for that is okay, you've gotta lead a team. A lot of lead doers do not make good leaders. And so you need to be crystal clear about when you're creating a path for somebody in their journey, is that the right person that should be stepping into a leadership seat? Or are they just your lead doer? And so make them acknowledge that value, that compensate that, but. But speak to skillset and gift mix and what they're, what they're actually trying to to solve. So many of us have probably seen or heard top seller in an organization promoted to sales director and everything falls flat. You know, you lose out on the fact that they're closing as many deals as they were, and quite frankly, they're tired of sort of putting up with people's crap. You know, it's like having to be way or judged on other people's performance versus their own. Happens so much. I've seen it in so many organizations, even when I was spending my years doing consulting. Um, and so it's, it's if you don't have an intentional path towards that, if you're not listening, if you're not in tune and doing those one-on-ones and regularly knowing where those person, where these people are strong, then how could you possibly play the game of leadership, chess and make sure that right people are in the right seat and moving to the right, uh, path, you know, to grow your business. And I, back to your question as well. It will with, with proper alignment and intentionality and everybody like at one firefly and amplify people. Everybody has metrics. Everybody has a scorecard. We review 'em every week and we're making sure we're on track. So this isn't about just, again, fluffy leadership conversation. It is about accountability and, and tangible metrics that they have to arrive at. But if you're helping steer that ship, or I often like to think of my role as maybe it's not, uh, directing the entire movie. I'm not the business owner, but I feel like. The executive producer, I'm always moving the right people into the right places, making sure the logistics are happening. Oh, these people should partner up on that project. If you're really good at that or you make an intentional, uh, effort to grow in that, it's unbelievable. What can that, that can bring from a tangible business success, uh, standpoint.

Kat:

Okay. I think. All right. We've, we've gotten a good little overview of the big picture of why people and culture are important.

Andrew:

Sure.

Kat:

So let's do my favorite thing we do in the podcast, which is Play the game.

Andrew:

I love your games. I love your games. I knew this was coming at some point. I love your games.

Kat:

Cool. I know. Well, I made a special one for you. So

Andrew:

Nice. Nice.

Kat:

Today's game is called Human or Hype. So you've seen a few of these. You know the drill. It's a little bit of a lightning round. I'm gonna throw out buzzwords or trends that are around, you know, people and hiring and culture and all that stuff. And you tell me if it's real human. Sure.

Andrew:

Okay.

Kat:

Or if it's hype. Something people talk about more than they do and probably doesn't really matter.

Andrew:

Okay. Sounds good. You ready? Okay. Human or hype? Love it.

Kat:

Human or hype? Unlimited. PTO.

Andrew:

Oh gosh. Uh, it's hype to be honest with you. Uh, as somebody who has had that in their past, um, uh. Uh, it sounds really good, and it even motivates people to leave the existing business that they're at sometimes when that's part of a package, when they're headhunted on LinkedIn or Indeed or somewhere. What I found even having it in my own world is when you're judged, particularly if it's a role where you're judged by your numbers. Good luck taking PTO because the truth is, you know, if you're not hitting your numbers, you're not gonna be there. I mean, I, I come from a, a corporate world for so many years that, uh, you know, we used to joke it, it's, that sounds so great. Oh, I'm gonna take these vacations, I'm gonna do these trips. But if you're losing track of your numbers, you're not performing, you're gonna be gone. So that's, that's a little longer answer than you're looking for a human or hype

Kat:

human, or

Andrew:

it's more hyped than you really get to live out this idea of unlimited PTO.

Kat:

1000%. Okay. Uh, next Culture Fit interviews.

Andrew:

Human. Human. I, I think, you know, so many people look so good on paper and, and we're all, let's be honest, we're all putting our highlight reel out there. You know, this is our on paper as well as in the interview process. And I think one of the things I really try to do is, you know, in our process, for example. We make it a multi-stage process and there's articles and podcasts about you should be faster in the process, articles where you should be longer in the process. I'm gonna just tell you from experience, a very intentional set of interviews that happens and moves somebody through with certain key, uh, stakeholders in the business is essential. And, and regardless of the size of your business, because you're getting to see people in different contexts, you're getting different personalities to interact with them and hopefully some really good strategic conversations where you start to get a true sense of who this person is, not just the, you know, highlight reel. I want it to be as much like I'm sitting down with this person at Starbucks and having a conversation so I can get to know them for real. And if that fits, awesome, but if it doesn't, let's be honest with each other. 'cause that's gonna waste both of our times if it's not a culture fit. So.

Kat:

Okay. Uh, work from anywhere.

Andrew:

Uh, Ooh, this is a tricky one 'cause we're a remote company. I would say it's a, it's, it really depends. I would say it's human in terms of, there's lots of flexibility. Uh, many of, you know, I, I travel quite a bit and, uh, get to move around and I love that. I love that we're a fully remote environment. In fact, we're in five, six different countries now. We have team members, uh, which is amazing. So work from anywhere in that context, I think. Can work that also has a lot to do with the systems and the processes you have in place in your business to be able to afford that flexibility. I do believe it's a lot about the outcomes, not how they got there, the amount of time that's, uh, taken to do that because some people are able to do things more quickly and good lord, everyone knows in the day of ai, what a tool in our hand to accelerate our, our abilities. And it's, you know, it's not, I don't believe it has to replace people, but I think it, it. Replaces or eliminates, you know, limitations. It, it really opens the door to more effectiveness and efficiency. So all that said. I think you can afford that if you are in tune and you're holding your team accountable. I have seen it go bad the other way, and I think there is a lot of, I'm watching soccer games while I'm, you know, uh, working or, or desperate housewives, or I'm trying to wrangle my 2-year-old who's not in daycare and do so there, there are versions of that that are way more hype if you're not managing it well. But it is a very human thing today and, and look at how something is. Hard for the world to go through. Like COVID really accelerated the efforts and the platforms even for us to be able to do that effectively. And many realized we don't all have to be in the same office for this to have a great culture and be a highly successful business. So that'd be my response. I'm giving you way longer answers. That's

Kat:

okay. I like, I like the, like, I like the, um. The explanation so we get a little bit more than just human hype. So, okay. This one I think is interesting, but hiring for potential over experience.

Andrew:

Another good one. Um, and I feel like I keep playing middle ground and not, not just because I recognize we have a variety of listeners. I think, again, it's a very human opportunity if you've built something in your business where you can bring in maybe a less experienced person, newer to their career and train them up in the way. You do business. I think there's a lot of opportunity in that, and I think you can even build loyalty in that, in that person's development over time. But not every business is in that place. Maybe you've been, you know, you're a small business and like every seat matters and your time matters so much and, and it's like, gosh, I need to find somebody who's experienced. So I, I think there's, it really does depend, but I would always say if you're going towards the human side of it versus the hype. Shouldn't we always be looking at how are we grooming somebody to take us over, like, take our seat, you know, like, how are we growing them so that then they could grow and now we can go to the next things that we're passionate about and find fulfilling or most effective in the business. So it's a, I'm big on su succession planning, uh, within a business and many don't focus on that and don't think about building that bench. I'll still go human on that one.

Kat:

No, I mean, I think you're right. It, it could go either way, but it really just depends on the role, but Sure. Solid context. I appreciate that. This is, uh, okay. This one, I'm gonna, don't go down the rabbit hole, Andrew. I know this is

Andrew:

alright. Alright.

Kat:

Thing in the world. But don't go one

Andrew:

answer.

Kat:

No, but, uh, but, but I, I know what you're gonna say. As soon as I say this, your eyes are gonna light up and you're gonna, 'cause this is your thing. AI in the hiring process. I know I didn't wanna open that can of worms with you. Don't do it.

Andrew:

Um. Neither, it's neither human nor hype. I think it's, um, I think that AI is a tool in our hands. And so if it helps you in the sifting process of getting to the right, uh, for example, there are ways to utilize it in helping. Let's say you're in a popular area, a lot of job candidates, and there's a lot of, uh, resumes coming your way. There are very straightforward ways you could leverage AI to help you sift through what's sort of the junk and what's the stuff you should spend your time reviewing. So it cannot replace you in the process by any stretch of the imagination, but are there things that it can do to help you, and I'll say AI slash automations, are there things that you can do to help you be more effective in that hiring process? Of course there are. Of course there are.

Kat:

Okay.

Andrew:

It wasn't too far down the rabbit trail. I just kind of

Kat:

shifted. No, I just, I, I, I know that I, AI is a big, you know

Andrew:

Sure, sure.

Kat:

Interest for you. And I was like, oh God. We talk about that for 45 minutes.

Andrew:

That's right. That's right.

Kat:

The thing I hate the most open office layouts.

Andrew:

Oh yeah. That's, uh. Honestly, I've probably seen it be more hype than human. I, I think there is something to be said about certain even teams within an organization. I think you are. Um, I've been in organizations and even led organizations that had sort of that sales bullpen kind of mentality with the low, you know, cubicles and everybody was rallying and there was TVs with all the metric up around. I've been in that environment and, and it had an energy. You know what I mean? It really can work. I also think though, if you're really having folks focus in and, and be, uh, especially if they're on the phone a lot with, with clients, et cetera, and trying to have meaningful, not transactional interaction, but relational interaction. Yeah. There's something to be said about some walls, you know, or some opportunity to be able to talk through. So we kinda get the best of both worlds being a remote environment. It's that we can do these meetings and have groups together, but then obviously we're able to have that one-to-one connection with our clients, with our other teammates, et cetera. So, yeah, I'm not, uh, you know, depends on your business, I guess. But there's probably more hype than human.

Kat:

There's nothing I hate more than having other people listen to me have a phone conversation. It's just weird. It's like I just, and we're all talk, it's. I can't, I can't do it. Can't abide it. Um,

Andrew:

which is so, isn't that interesting though, without going down the Ai rabbit trail? But think about Fathom and these other tools. Now, now we're recording most of these calls anyway, but we don't think of it consciously the same way we do if somebody was sitting in a, a, a space next to us. So

Kat:

I don't care if you listen to the recording of me talking. I just like when you're there like. Listening to me. It's awkward, it's uncomfortable. It's like somebody's just standing there staring at you.

Andrew:

Oh, I get it. I get, yeah, I get it.

Kat:

Um, okay, last one. For our game today. Uh, mandatory Fun Fridays.

Andrew:

Oh my god. Hype. Huh? Yeah, I mean, it goes back to the core values on the wall. You can't, one, if you hang 'em on the wall, they die on the wall. And two, you can't force people to have fun or build culture. Like that's not a thing. You can create environments for that. You can certainly offer up team lunches and outings and these other things, but you know, as soon as you start forcing it, it's just like, I don't mean to relate. Team members, two kids. It's like you do with your own children. It's like they'll make it miserable for you. You can make 'em go. That doesn't mean they're gonna enjoy it. And then maybe it's more extreme in the home than it is in, uh, in the workplace. But I think you wanna create those opportunities. I'm very grateful. Our culture, uh, one of the things we firmly believe in is not only, um, an annual team event where we gather everyone from all six of those countries we work in, um, together, but we also afford budget. For team members who want to get together or have the opportunity to get together in local areas or pods or they're traveling or whatever. What a fun way to do that. That's not forced, but yet the company's saying we value it and we'll even put resource behind it. I think that's a great way to maybe go about it versus a, we're all gonna have fun on Friday. This is happening. You know what I mean?

Kat:

Everybody has to have fun. You're all required requirement. Fun.

Andrew:

That's

Kat:

right. Uh, yeah. I think that's hilarious, but we've all seen it happen.

Andrew:

Sure.

Kat:

In a lot of companies, um, probably more than, than not. Uh, okay. So that, that was our game. I appreciate you playing with me. Yeah. Know it's my favorite part. Um, so now we're gonna kind of take it in our next section to dive in a little bit deeper to that big picture that we kind of started out. So let's start out with something that I know is really challenging for a lot of our customers. The hiring process.

Andrew:

Mm-hmm.

Kat:

Because. Getting it right early. Saves people a lot of pain. Mm-hmm. So how do you spot somebody who's gonna add to your culture, not just fit into it?

Andrew:

It's a great question. I, I think, uh, and, and I would say it starts before the need is there. One of the things that, you know, and again, if you're small business, I know that's hard sometimes it's just birth out of pain. I, I've got too many jobs or somebody just left, I've gotta hire right now. What I would encourage everyone is when you're not in the pain or in the storm, be crafting your plan for hiring. Be crafting what job descriptions look like for roles and what that, you know, so that when you're in the fire you've already got a plan and you already know how to move forward. Now there are partners, uh, out there that can help you through that process. Sure. But. I, I think it's on you as a business owner to be thinking ahead of that. That said, when you're starting the process, I go back to something I, I mentioned earlier is this isn't a one and done. You might even be in a tough place and, and, you know, desperate for, uh, I need a technician right now. Um. I gotta be honest with you too many times people go through that process and they rush and they get somebody in to do the job and they don't really vet the person well and it backfires on 'em and it really can damage. We all know, I mean, it can take quite some time to build up trust and reputation as a business and it can be lost so quickly with the wrong hire and, and rushing that process. So I'm not saying make it take weeks and months and all that, but I am saying be very thorough. You know, this is a measure twice or three times. Cut once. Kind of situation, so.

Kat:

And this is, and I loved what you just said there, because Plan ahead, right? Like don't, I mean, yeah, if you have to hire, you have to hire 'cause you have things you have to do. But maybe that's a 10 99 technician who just comes in and helps for a little while. Maybe you plan more long term for the real person to join your business. Like do it before you need it. Like know that you're gonna plan ahead strategically. If you will think ahead and know that your business is growing, things are coming up. Let's bring somebody in so we have X amount of time to train them before everything goes off the rails.

Andrew:

Well, and you're right, 'cause there's certain skill sets that maybe could slip in as a 10 99 or otherwise, and there's others that that can't. And so, you know, maybe it's in in office or an office manager or a finance type role. You know, again, this person's probably gonna be with you for a while if you make the right hire. So it's worth taking that time and having a couple key stakeholders, not just, you always assume. That you are gonna be schmoozed, for lack of a better word, in an interview, or maybe there could be really complimentary of you or your company and you're just gonna feel so good and blah, blah, blah. Make them have a couple conversations, uh, particularly if you're like the owner, CEO. Have them talk to some of your other leaders as part of an interview process. So it's, it's always a little different when you're not in the room. So give that opportunity to happen and just make sure it also fosters buy-in from these other F folks. Yeah, I met with so and so. They're gonna be awesome. I can't wait to have them now. It's not just on Boss decided, you know, CEO decided everybody has a sort of a vested interest in the success, so,

Kat:

no, I, I, I get you. I think that is important, and this one's interesting to me because I just don't understand how, how you can do this. So what is your take on interviewing for values? Is that something that can be done objectively or is it more like a gut feel thing that you kind of develop over time?

Andrew:

Uh, I not to be middle of the road. I'd say it's, it is a both end. I, I'm far better at it today at 47 than I was at 27. Uh, for sure. You know, uh, learned and, and often so much in leadership. We learned more from our missteps and failures than we do from our successes or our awesome skillset. We have. Um, but I will say you can be intentional. Part of the things that we do about that interview process is once they've even been sort of early vetted by team and then they have more of a technical, the role, the responsibilities, the KPI type of interview with the direct leader. I do a culture interview with everybody we hire. When I say we've gone from about 30 people to about 75, I've interviewed, done finals with pretty much all of those. Um, and you could say, wow, what a. You know, that's a lot of time invested. It's too important to what we've built and it's too much opportunity to water down your culture or impact things if you don't have that conversation. So what I would say out of experience is there are non-traditional questions, though completely HR appropriate that you can talk. But the other thing is just be real with them. Uh, many times I'll get in if they've gotten to this place. I have a lot of trust in the leaders and the people that have done those early interviews. So I start with that. Hey, listen, if we're having a conversation, this is great. I know that so-and-so has already met with you, and so-and-so's already met with you, and I have a lot of trust in them. I want us to pretend that we're sitting at Starbucks and having a conversation, and I'm gonna be real with you and you can ask me anything you want, and I'd love for you to be as real with me as possible. All of a sudden, you watch like shoulders come down. And the engagement. Sometimes I actually physically see people lean in and we start to have real, real, uh, questions. And I have had other leaders watch me do it, and they say it's almost like watching a little bit of like a sparring with boxing. Like I'll throw them some jabs that are easy to answer and straightforward, and then I'll hit 'em with one that is a non-traditional question, but they're comfortable and they're ready to talk. You'd be blown away at the stuff that people will share, and that's, I so appreciate that. I would much rather have an authentic experience because I, I always relate to them. I'm trying to make sure for you, this is the right fit, not just for us. You should be chewing on, is this the place for you? As much as I'm trying to decide, are you the right person for this? You know, so I I, I have watched that side of it be so effective in helping us get the right people and that, not even just here at this environment, but in previous places that I firmly believe it. And I, I teach it. I preach it. I'm like, I, I think you can drive towards those true culture questions and a culture assessment.

Kat:

Okay, well let's, we talked about employees. We've talked about, you know, what we expect when we're building things, but let's talk about leadership a little bit because Sure. Culture doesn't trickle down automatically. You know, you don't just put the poster on the wall, as we've said, and have things happen. So what is something that you think every leader should be doing every week to keep their people connected and aligned?

Andrew:

Uh, it's a great thing. First of all, it starts with you as a leader. Um, you know, I, I think so many folks take the authority of a seat, but they're not leaders. Um, they maybe have a title or they maybe have been promoted to a role. You have to look at leadership as a skillset and a muscle that you're continuing to grow as much as you do. If you're a web developer or you're a salesperson, or you're a technician, leadership is another facet that has to continue to grow, or it's atrophies or it doesn't have any development that's actually benefiting you or the team following you. Um. So I strongly believe in that that can't be, that is a firm leg of the stool, if you will, of the four legs of a stool, of your role, uh, is to keep developing and growing regularly as far as your team listen, you can't just, if you just hold a seat and an authority, you are not leading, you're not helping them grow. You're not doing any like, so to just be a title on an org chart. It means nothing. You have to be regularly meeting with them and you have to be, you know, holding them accountable. 'cause here's the thing, uh, it's not, uh, John Maxwell talks about, uh, you know, I think that there's, there's a lot of folks who just say, I want to be hands off. I don't wanna micromanage people. But then they're really like, just an absentee. Person. Yeah. And they're the, the team struggles and doesn't know what to do at different times. On the other hand, there's people who are just so involved. They're not tr building trust with their team members to allow them opportunities to fail forward and to actually have missteps. So the only way to lead effectively, and back to the root of your question is, you know, that regular weekly meeting with those key stakeholders and regular, if not weekly, at least biweekly, one-on-ones with those key stakeholders. That's how you can live it out. Week in and week out and make sure it's a much, ironically, it's a much shorter, uh, control cycle, but that doesn't have to be micromanagement, but that's just connection and that's making sure they know you're there for them and that they can bring things to you. And the environment you create, the trust that you build. You create a space where, I'm not gonna use a bunch of touchy feely words, but you create a open dialogue. You could say safe space, you can say whatever words you want to use into that, and that, if that makes you feel comfortable. Some business owners are like, that is not me. That's not what I, if they can trust you and know they can bring anything to you, that's what I'm talking about. Whatever label you wanna put on it.

Kat:

Okay. And finally, Andrew. You have a lot of experience here, so I wanna know, what's the one thing you've learned the hard way about building teams and culture?

Andrew:

Hmm. Um, you're gonna get it wrong,

Kat:

okay?

Andrew:

You're gonna get it wrong. Uh, no matter how much time, energy, experience, there's still gonna be those curve balls that hit you and they're gonna hurt. And if you're invested, it's gonna be. It can be shaking, uh, to you at your core as a leader or as a business owner. And I would say the way I process it today, I go back not because of age, just experience and, and challenges. 27 version of Andrew 37 and 47 are very different in how that goes and how much it affects me. I, I've found a way now to be as poured in and in as invested in people as ever.

Kat:

Mm-hmm.

Andrew:

But also recognizing without cynicism, this may not work out. You know, or, or I can't want it more for the person than they want it for themselves. And that's, that's hard, man. Especially when you believe in somebody and you know they've got a capability or potential. Um, so that would be my biggest thing. I, I really hung up so much of my identity in leadership in younger years that, that when those moments would happen, or maybe some good opportunity came that was, it was the right thing for that person, or they decided it was the right thing for them, it just gets so crushed. You know? It's like all the time we invested all the things we, you know, um. But I, I just recognize over time, that's gonna happen. That's part of it. I want to be a good steward of what I've been entrusted with and the people that I've been entrusted with for the time that I have them. I would always want somebody, even if they ever moved on, or if I ever moved on, they would be like, man, that season, I'm so grateful for that in my life. I feel like I got to grow, I got to develop, I got to be valued in that time. More often than not. What I've also found though, Kat, is that is what keeps people at businesses. We've all seen that meme on LinkedIn. People don't leave jobs, they leave bad managers or bad leaders. And that's the truth, because more often than not, it's like if I have a great working relationship. I'll tend to wanna like, break down walls for that person. I'll want to go and just drive forward. You don't have to tell me to put the extra effort I want to because I'm bought in. I'm, I'm there. Versus if it's somebody who's not trusting me or second guessing me or, or micromanaging me, it's sort of like there's probably some greener pastures elsewhere. You know what I mean? So,

Kat:

yeah. Um, Andrew. Thank you for this. Thank you for this today. Uh, this is a great conversation and I think a lot of people out there listening are starting to realize that culture, like isn't just a perk. It's not just something that happens organically. You have to work at it. And it's practice, practice that gets you there, right?

Andrew:

Absolutely.

Kat:

Um, so for anybody that wants to connect with you or follow your work, where can they find you?

Andrew:

Uh, LinkedIn. Find me on LinkedIn. Uh, very straightforward. No funky little, uh, you know, uh. Apostrophes or, or till days or anything else in my name, just Andrew Pino on LinkedIn. You can search me and find me. I'd love to connect.

Kat:

Well, perfect. Thank you Andrew for your time today and I hope everyone enjoyed this episode. Uh, remember great marketing, uh, brings people to your brand and great culture keeps 'em relieving it. So thank you everybody, and we will see you next time.

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Ron Callis is the CEO of One Firefly, LLC, a digital marketing agency based out of South Florida and creator of Automation Unplugged. Founded in 2007, One Firefly has quickly became the leading marketing firm specializing in the integrated technology and security space. The One Firefly team work hard to create innovative solutions to help Integrators boost their online presence, such as the elite website solution, Mercury Pro.

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Resources and links from the interview:

• • Amplify People Website

• • Andrew Pino LinkedIn Profile Page
    
    
• • Our Team!