Expert Strategies to Stay Agile and Grow in a Shifting CI Industry

Automation Unplugged 311 is a panel we hosted live and recorded in May 2025. In this special session with eight industry experts, we cover dealer-submitted questions about tariffs in 2025, growth opportunities in volatile markets and more.

This week's episode of Automation Unplugged we’re bringing you a panel we hosted live on May 15, 2025, titled “Navigating Uncertainty: An Open Forum for Dealers on the State of the Industry.”

About this episode:

The first half of 2025 has been a period characterized by economic fluctuations and volatility. In times of rising hardware costs, lengthening lead times, softer homeowner demand, and margin pressure, it’s more important than ever to stay informed, agile, and connected. That’s why we convened eight seasoned industry & business experts across finance, marketing, service, hiring, design, and operations for an unfiltered discussion and live Q&A about how to navigate uncertain times.

You’ll hear from:

Myself — Ron Callis, CEO of One Firefly
Matt Bernath, President of VITAL, LLC
Joseph Kolchinsky, CEO of OneVision Resources
David Warfel, Founding Designer of Light Can Help You
Mark Langston, Partner & Chief Lighting Advisor of Light Can Help You
Jason Sayen, Founder of I Am Sayen
Josh Christian, CEO of Home Technology Association
Paul Starkey, Co-Founder & Partner of PrepTECH
And Rebecca Sternlicht, Corporate Marketing Lead at One Firefly, panel moderator

The panel fielded topics that were submitted in advance by the registered webinar attendees. They included:

Tariff impacts on pricing & how to monitor key financial metrics, structure surcharges or locks, and proactively communicate value to clients.
Expert tips on diversifying growth paths through forging trade-partner relationships, expanding into lighting & shading, and building service-based revenue streams.
How to practice operational resilience with change-order workflows, weekly project huddles, and standard processes to handle pricing changes due to tariffs.
And how to feed your growth during tough times by staying active on multiple marketing channels and leveraging manufacturer funds and collaborations.

Transcript

Rebecca:

Yeah. Well, you know what? I'm gonna start this webinar in typical Ron Callis fashion and say the time is the time, so let's get going. Thank you to everyone who joined us today. I'm excited and happy to see so many people. My name is Rebecca Sternlicht. I'm the Corporate Marketing Lead here at One Firefly, and I'm gonna be moderating this session for our host, our set of panelists here. I've been at One Firefly for five years, started as a content writer, and now oversee all of One Firefly's marketing initiatives. I'm used to being in the background, offering support, and helping ensure everything goes smoothly. So today, I'm still in the same role, helping ensure everything goes smoothly, just on the front end. I'm gonna run you guys through some housekeeping items really quick, and then I'll do some quick intros of our panelists, and then we will get going. So as you guys can see, the chat is open. The Q&A is open as well. Please feel free to drop questions and comments. I'm gonna tell you guys right up front, we only have an hour, and I think that we are not gonna be able, I know that we're not gonna be able to get to everyone's questions. We actually asked all of you if you would be willing to pre-submit questions on the registration link, and we received over fifty. So what I have done is my very best to take all of those questions, pick out frequently asked questions and common themes, and put those together so that you guys get a really valuable session with our panelists out of it. But please feel free to drop any questions you have. We will collect them. We have read all of them that have already been submitted, and we'll do our best to get you guys answers, even if it's not in this session. At the end, also, we will ask you if you would be willing to fill out a little survey form for us. And on that, we do have a question. If you are interested in us doing a second session around this, please let us know and put any questions or topics that weren't answered there for that. And if we have enough interest, then this group would be happy to come back and do another session just like this. Alright. So let's get into our panelists, who they are. I know you guys have been hearing a lot probably recently from your manufacturers and other people in the industry. This group is a group of very experienced entrepreneurs, business owners, service providers in the space. So they are here, to offer their own unique lens and perspective on everything that's going on right now in the economy, and what to expect in the future for this market. So let me let me go ahead and introduce you guys to who we have here. I'm gonna start with someone who I work with very closely every day, and that is Ron Callis. He's the CEO and Founder of One Firefly, and One Firefly is a marketing agency, working in this space. We also provide hiring services through our more recently launched business division, Amplify People. So we also have Matt Bernath, who's the president of VITAL. Matt at VITAL provides financial benchmarking and business insights to help dealers like you optimize your margins and drive more growth for your businesses. Joey Kolchinsky, Founder and CEO of OneVision Resources. OneVision helps dealers build smart home service platforms that help you build and run service departments that turn into monthly recurring revenue machines for your growth. Josh Christian, CEO of HTA, Home Technology Association, really setting industry standards and certifying top integrators and helping dealers connect with homeowners as well as the design build community like architects, builders, and designers to just elevate industry standards overall. Jason Sayen, founder of I Am Sayen, Lean Six Sigma Black Belt and process architect. He is helping dealers document workflows, eliminate operational bottlenecks, and just really learning how to run your businesses more effectively. Paul Starkey, a Cofounder and Partner at PrepTECH, which is a workforce development firm that helps recruit and train new technician talent and place them at firms within the industry. And then last but certainly not least, we have David Warfel, Founding Designer at Light Can Help You, as well as Mark Langston, Partner and Chief Lighting Advisor at Light Can Help You. They are a lighting design firm, partnering with dealers to deliver beautiful lighting design solutions to the industry. Alright, guys. Well, I'm gonna go ahead and stop sharing the slide screen right now so that we can get into our Q&A. And I think let's go ahead and kick it off. So I would love to start by tackling one of the biggest topics that came up from the questions that everyone submitted through our registration link, which is tariffs. I think we've seen that story in the news about six times per day, and each one is a different story. So a lot of uncertainty, a lot of noise around tariffs right now. So I wanna pass the mic over to Matt, and let's start talking about, as we see all of these tariffs, these new pricing changes coming down through the industry, what are some key financial indicators that dealers should be monitoring closely? And if those metrics are starting to show a red flag, how should dealers approach structuring pricing changes? That could be maybe embedding tariffs into base rates or adding a separate surcharge or even a hybrid approach?

Matt:

Thank you, Rebecca. There's a lot there. First off, appreciate you bringing up the question. I think this was asked a number of times in different ways. You know, there's a few key factors. These are foundational. The, you know, biggest one being gross margin. And, you know, the bottom line profit in a business always starts with top line gross margin. But that can be very hard to put your finger on in this business and certainly very difficult for me to explain in a four minute answer. So what I'm hoping to give the attendees are some fairly easy metrics to track that help you regardless of what's happening with tariffs or the economy or whatever the case may be. So first one is your proposal pipeline velocity. Now that sounds really complicated, but it's actually pretty easy. It's really the rate of leads and proposals each week. So it's fairly easy to track these things. By the way, most of these metrics, you can get from very simple tracking methods. So it's like, hey. How many leads did we receive this week? How is that compared to prior weeks? And, you know, leads and proposals. Right? So you want to know the rate of change in those numbers to know if things are improving or slowing down in terms of leads and proposals. That's a very leading indicator. And, and then also weekly new sales. So of those leads and proposals, how many of them are turning into new sales? And we wanna look at quantity, size, and close ratio of those opportunities. Again, all stuff that's fairly easy to track in a spreadsheet. The third one, which, you know, most of the financial systems out there already track. Third one is days to pay, or AR days. And, you know, AR means accounts receivable. And this might seem like a weird one, but here's why this is important. Businesses typically succeed or fail based on cash flow. And when we start to see shifts in the economy, especially for those integrators who are heavy into builder work and builders are taking thirty, sixty, ninety days to pay their bills, of course, that builder will take care of his own business before he takes care of the others, you know, the partner businesses. So what we really wanna keep an eye on is the AR days or days to pay because as that starts to stretch out and get long, we need to be very concerned about the health of the businesses or even the health of the individuals that we're doing business with. So that indicates changes in customer payment habits. It also drives changes in collections and billing before the cash flow gets tight so we can get ahead of those things. So hopefully that helps. I don't know if, if there's other questions, feel free to drop them into the chat.

Rebecca:

Excellent. Thank you, Matt. So sticking on that same subject of tariffs, I wanna take a little bit of a deeper dive as well, and turn the mic over to David here. So talking about how tariffs could impact a specific product category. So, David, lighting often represents a pretty significant line item on a lot of projects in this space. So help us understand, how are these tariffs, how could they be impacting fixture pricing and ordering today? And then what advice do you have for dealers when it comes to placing orders, managing mid-project price increases, and handling change orders so that they can protect both margins but also maintain client trust?

David:

Okay. There's a ninety minute question, Rebecca. Yeah. And this is a big question for all of us. And as a business owner, what do we want? We want certainty. What do investors want? They want certainty. What do our clients want? They want certainty. And what are the tariffs creating? Uncertainty. But they're not the only thing that creates uncertainty. You know, recently, we've dealt with a pandemic that created uncertainty. We had supply shortages that created uncertainty. Wars create uncertainty. Even elections now create uncertainty that all, then drive consumer habits or drive customer habits. So what you know, whatever the issue of the day is, customer habits. So what you know, whatever the issue of the day is, and right now, it seems to be tariffs. The question I think maybe is how do we navigate uncertainty? And I would argue that, you know, what's worked for us has been honesty and flexibility, a combination of the two. And honesty, I mean, let's recognize that this isn't easy stuff. It just got harder for our customers to buy light fixtures. Many of them probably are watching their net worth go all over the place, and that's causing them concern. But it's getting harder to buy stuff, and that's the intention of tariffs. It's supposed to discourage spending on products, especially those of foreign origin or with foreign components so that, you know, the trade can be balanced. That's the point. So we don't wanna dance around it. We don't wanna pretend like it's not supposed to do that. So don't bs, because most people, they've got a bs-o-meter and they can tell when you don't know what's going on or when you're just trying to bs. So let them know you're doing your best. Most of them will realize that it's a bit difficult to predict anything because, you know, just as an example from us, last week we decided we're gonna add ten percent to our fixture estimates, as a contingency, as a bigger contingency than we've ever carried just for this reason. And we announced that to the team on Monday, the same day we got the news that there's a ninety day reprieve on some of the tariffs, not all of them, but some of them. So the fluidity is impossible to keep up with. I'm not changing that contingency, we're keeping it in there. So we're at a fifteen percent contingency right now just because of what's going on. You know, and I wanna keep it that way because tariffs can change instantly without warning. And, of course, as you know, some manufacturers are raising prices. Others are adding, you know, tariff surcharges. Some are saying we're gonna raise the prices on this day. Others are gonna say they're raising it on that day. It's just so much, so fluid that I think you have to build fluidity into your costs or you're gonna be coming back and saying, well, it's not a hundred thousand. It's a hundred and two thousand. Oh, it's a hundred and three thousand today. Oh, I bought it yesterday. It's ninety eight thousand. Give yourself a range so that you can, you know, build in flexibility and make that range a little bit bigger right now, because I think that's what the market is demanding.

Joseph:

David, one of the things you mentioned that really stood out to me is proactively communicating with the client and getting ahead of it and just having a conversation. You know, I remember when tariff conversations happened several years ago, and the similarities are the same today, which is that many manufacturers are gonna do it many different ways. As David said, the timing is all over the place. There's plenty of uncertainty. But the one thing you can control is whether you are in the driver's seat of having that discussion with the client directly and how you choose to manage the risk or streamline the fluidity, as David says, for the client, is, you know, there's many ways to skin that cat. But, you know, the one thing that will work for everybody is to get in front of the conversation with the client and work through it. And I think everybody, especially clients in this industry, really appreciate the difficulty and dynamic of what's going on. Generally, it's an educated market, and they will be understanding. And they certainly have the discretionary income to also handle it. What nobody likes to handle is surprises that could have been avoided. And by getting ahead of it with a conversation, and just leaning into the chaos, and getting on the same side of the problem with the client, you can engender a lot of goodwill and rapport that allow the two of you to solve the problem together for that specific project.

David:

That's a good point.

Rebecca:

Great. Yeah. Okay. Someone, maybe one or two of you, would just love maybe the fifteen to thirty second answer. Do you see prices going back down when the tariff uncertainty is over, or will they stay the same at higher prices?

Matt:

I was just typing out a response. I actually think it'd be amazing. I'm sure there's some manufacturers that are on here today. It'd be pretty interesting to see people respond in the chat to that one.

Ron:

I would add, I don't think so. I mean, I was just at the Azione conference last week, and it was a panel of manufacturers speaking. And although the tariffs may stay or may not, or the you know, we just had a tariff reprieve just a couple of days ago or a pause, what is gonna happen with many of these vendors or manufacturers, Paul, maybe from your manufacturer experience, you could speak to this. Many of these manufacturers are looking at potentially reshoring manufacturing and or moving some of their manufacturing and logistics. And so there are significant expenses, operational expenses that these manufacturers, your vendors, are gonna be encountering for quarters and years to come. So the idea that their money they may have planned to spend on research and development, or they may have planned to spend that money on other growth initiatives, that is likely right now for many of them being, recalibrated to fund efforts to move logistics and manufacturing. Keeping in mind, there are certain electrical elements that are just simply manufactured in the south of China, like audio. The audio business is based in the southern part of China. And so it's just, there's a lot of expenses that are gonna cause uncertainty and increased expenses and cutting into the margins of the manufacturers for many, many years to come based on all of this, basically, recalibration of the global order.

Paul:

Ron, I would agree with that. I mean, this is not exactly gas and eggs. You're not gonna see the prices rebound, I think, back to where they were. I would expect you know, we’ve kinda seen this, I think, with the supply chain thing too. We started to see prices rise. Did anybody see any big, you know, decreases afterwards? No. I think it becomes the accepted norm, and we just keep moving the chains.

Rebecca:

Thank you. Appreciate all those perspectives. Matt, just wanted to say one final thing. Check your chat settings. It looks like some of those messages are always only going to host and panelists if you wanna flip that out to everyone. Alright. I'm gonna keep moving forward. I do see there are some additional questions in the chat. Again, we'll collect any that we can't get to on this session to try to get you guys answers later. So going away from tariffs, let's talk about opportunities in this space right now. There's still, I think, plenty of opportunity even during these kind of volatile times. And just wanna talk about one area and and pass the mic over to Josh over here. One area of interest right now is getting in with the design build community, building those relationships. So for dealers who haven't tapped into that community yet, is now the right time to start building those relationships? And if so, what are some first steps that they can take to do so?

Josh:

Yes. Definitely. Thank you, Rebecca. It's always a great time to start building those architect, builder, and designer relationships if you start right away. Start right away. And it's interesting to see that the firms that the integrators that have these relationships stay more stable through ups and downs. Like we've been talking about, there's ups and downs that have happened all the time. It's tariffs for the talk now, but whatever it might be, those integrators that have those solid relationships have a much bigger net of leads that are coming in. You build a great relationship with what I'm gonna call the trade partners here. They become very loyal to you. I worked at a firm out in Los Angeles for many years, and we weathered the recession without having to lay anybody off because we had such great relationships with those folks. Yes. Business goes up and down, but that net is wider. Interesting statistics from Matt here from VITAL, and in his statistics that he's seen with integration firms that kinda hit a ceiling of about two million dollars and can't seem to break through that. The ones that have trade partner relationships and referrals are the ones that break through that two million. So that's an interesting stat, and thank you for sharing that, Matt. So to get started in this, the first thing to do is go out there and meet these folks in your local community. And I'm doing a webinar about this next week for HTA. So this is gonna be, was gonna be, a members only webinar next Thursday, but we'll put on our social media and open up to everybody to kinda get into some more details on where you go out and find those folks. But what I wanna share with you today too is just a couple cheerleading things and a couple things to keep in mind, and this is, like, years of experience baking it down into a couple key bullet points. But know that when you go out, and especially when you're talking to architects and interior designers, they think of you as just a subcontractor, as someone that comes in late in the process. But we all know here that you're heavy on the design side. There's a lot of re-planning that needs to go on, and ideally, you're gonna be part of that early design team with whoever it is, the architect, designer, or builder. You wanna be at that table early, early. What's called the schematic design phase of the project when they're very in early conversations of what this home is gonna look like. So knowing that, you can now position yourself and message yourself, and this has to do with the way you present yourself to them and also how you speak on your website that you are proactive, that you wanna be part of that design team, that you work with their drawings and you add to their drawings, and that you collaborate with them and share what's in it for them. Because I and you know, I speak literally to thousands of architects and designers and builders, have been doing this since 1995, and their perception of our industry is not good. And the professional side of the best integrators out there do such great work, and they're such collaborators. So you wanna, you know, be in that top rung. And how you do that is, what's in it for them? What's in it for you, architect, designer, builder, to work with me early? Not so much me, me, me. I got the best brands, the best programmers. Everyone says that. But when you say this is what happens when you work with us, we could help with the space planning and and make sure that everything that is visible, any technology that's visible in this home, I wanna get your buy in on there, the television, the speakers, the keypads, and show that you care about the aesthetics. That is a refreshing approach. Show your drawings. If you're not doing drawings and design and engineering now, that's something that you're gonna wanna do, especially get that in place before you go out and talk to these folks. So, those are a few tips, but really speak up your design and consulting phase of what you do. And when you do that, then you are showing yourself as a designer and not just a contractor. It shouldn't be this way, but the reality of life is that contractors are not respected as much as designers and consultants. So you are a designer consultant. Speak that up. And another thing is lead with lighting and shades. Don't talk about audio, video, and controls with these folks because every project, architects and designers care about lighting and shades. Once you get in the project, all the other stuff comes back in it.

Ron:

Rebecca, can I ask Josh a quick follow up question there?

Rebecca:

Yeah. Absolutely.

Ron:

Josh, we at One Firefly are certainly hearing a chorus of integrators saying they want to start building or forging new relationships with the design trade space, designers, architect interior designers, architects, custom builders, and other trades. How much time does it take for that to really result in traction?

Josh:

That could take, you have to have the patience in there. Now getting into the webinar we're gonna do next week, some of the stuff that HTA is doing is designed to compress the time it takes for meeting that person to getting them to refer you, but it could take years. So you can't just start this tomorrow and expect, you know, here. Here's a set of plans. You have to build the relationship. It's very much a relationship based business. So get out there and start meeting these folks, and don't annoy them, but stay on their radar. And they'll start, once they start seeing you as a trustworthy person, then you could compress that time down. But going back to my past, this is pre-HTA days as an integrator without any of the knowledge I have now. Sometimes it took a couple years to turn somebody into a referring partner. And by the way, it works because DSI still has those relationships. So put the time in. But if you wanna compress it down, the webinar we're doing next week is talking a little bit more in-depth about this, about how you can build, get the trust factors out there much earlier because there's a distrust of this industry. So whatever you can do to build up the trust that you're a safe bet, we'll compress that, shorten that time that it takes or get them to refer you.

Ron:

Yeah. Brett just made a comment in the comment section. He says it takes months and years of planting seeds and having conversations with industry folks. So very much validating what you're saying, Josh.

Jason:

I'll just add to that. In my previous life, I was a CU instructor and got in front of an architect, with one of my integrator partners and just did a lunch and learn, and we got projects right away. And so that doesn't happen often. And many times, it does take months and years. But, the integrator really canvassed the space and found the right ideal partners in the area. We set up a lunch and learn. Price, spent five hundred dollars, and they just had a project that they needed someone on immediately. So you just never know. The point is you gotta get out there and try.

Rebecca:

Fantastic. Great conversation, guys. Appreciate all those perspectives.

Mark:

Can I add one thing in there real quick, Rebecca?

Rebecca:

Of course.

Mark:

I think one of the things that I see a lot of our integrator partners do is they start off small with small firms, and those small firms don't have very many projects. And so it's a lot of education, and then it's a long time till they actually have a project that comes in. So don't be afraid to start bigger with a firm that has multiple designers so you can get projects more quickly. And, you know, you don't have to put your toe in the water. Jump in. And you've got, you know, a great team here to be able to help you, this whole group you have here. Just a thought on that.

Rebecca:

Yeah. Thank you, Mark. I also see a great tip that popped in from Kevin in the chat about building relationships with your electrical contractors and the superintendents. That can go a long way too, starting to build those relationships. It's a long term game as well.

Ron:

The chat is almost as good as what's coming out of everyone's mouth here. There's so much good content between these two.

Rebecca:

Yeah. Fantastic. I appreciate everyone contributing. Keep it going in the chat, and I will keep it going in the questions here. Paul, I wanna turn to you. You have been in this space for decades. You have seen probably every market imaginable, and you've seen kinda these types of shifts and changes over the years. So I would just love to get from your overarching perspective of the economy and this space. Just what are those three or four core tenants, guiding principles that dealers should be keeping in mind right now to not only get through kind of these volatile times, but even come out stronger on the other side of it.

Paul:

Oh, thanks, Rebecca. And, yeah, I've been around a long time for sure. But, I'd like to share a couple of things because I think these things apply in good times and in bad times. And in certain times, there's always winners and losers. And I think the difference is clearly between those that kinda accept the norm or the average or follow the group and those that put the effort in to stand out. And so I think really focusing on action is critical. I would say that be really careful about what I would call the main culture killer in this environment, which is excuse making. It's very easy when things turn a little uncertain or sour for the organization, your people to get really down. Salespeople, I've been one for years. You know, I've always looked for a good excuse why he wasn't performing. So I think, you know, keep a focus on action. You know, I always say, you know, a play by play announcer never scored a touchdown. So if somebody wants to sit up in the stands and observe and critique and make excuses, it's not the gladiator on the field. So that's an important thing. I think also during this time, don't discount the people side of the business. In luxury times when things are going and blowing, we can probably keep D and D players on the team. I think the notion of topgrading, I read a few years back a book by Garry Ridge, who's the CEO of WD-40. Actually, I saw him speak, and the book is called don’t mark their paper or grade their paper. Teach them how to get an A. And it really hits on this cultural note of mentoring and developing people and taking ownership for that. It's easy to tell people what they're not doing. Our whole review system is about read the book. I think you'll get a couple nuggets there. The other thing I would point out, we've all seen the movie, you know, the ABC, always be closing. I would change that a little bit to always be recruiting. And these times always look to find that unicorn. I mean, it came out in the questions. You know? I'm looking for experienced lead, you know, highly productive techs. Most of the time in this environment, if companies are losing and they're failing, you might be able to pick up some of those people as free agents when a company goes out of business. But if people are just downsizing, you're gonna get the C, their C and D players. You know? Good luck with that. So though those are kind of the principles I would say. I'd say if you have a plan to do what others aren't willing to do, you can win in this environment. So that's the challenge I would give you. Just do the uncomfortable things, the things that seem like, well, that's a lot to do. It's a lot to handle. If you do those things, your competitors don't.

Rebecca:

Great. Love those insights. Alright. So, let's talk about a couple of ways that you can keep your business strong, even growing, during periods of uncertainty like this one. So I wanna talk about reaching into new product categories, and actually has a great tie in to, I know earlier we discussed how, you know, one thing that you wanna do, especially with your interior designers, architects, and builders is get in on projects earlier, as their trusted technology partner. And, I think one way to do that, and maybe Mark can correct me if I'm wrong, is expanding into new categories like lighting and shading is a proven way to both diversify revenue and also get in earlier on these technology projects. So do you agree that this type of move is a smart move for dealers right now? And if so, how can these dealers be positioning themselves with this product category to get in first?

Mark:

Well, I'll start off with agreeing with you. Yes. I think it's a great place to be able to do it. And David and I have always thought that, really, the lighting would take off whenever there was a down economy because people would need to go wider and be able to do more things. But, you know, when this you know, everything started happening, it's easy to get lost in that this is a bummer that all of this is going on and kinda mourn, you know, what you thought was gonna happen, but then move very quickly into how do we think bigger, how do we become more nimble, how do we think wider, how do we diversify, which can be product categories like lighting, but also from who the clients that you're calling on? And so I talked to, you know, some integrators, and they have a very high percentage of their business in one company, which is scary, that they would do that. So how do we diversify all those things? Well, lighting, you know, much like what Josh said, it's on every project. So it's not like, are there gonna be lights on that project? There are. By code, there's gonna be lights on there. But is there gonna be your type of AV, your type of products are gonna be on there? Maybe, maybe not. But the big deal about where lighting fits in is it's a really fresh conversation. I talk to homeowners all the time and it is amazing to me how many people are like, oh my gosh. I had never even thought about this before. So if you wanna go out and press something new, get uncomfortable, do it with something that people want to hear about in a way that they can understand it, and that's gonna bring you business. And I think it was Josh who was saying, it's like, get farther up the food chain so you're not reacting to what's happening on the job. How much money is left for you to be able to spend, which nowadays is not much. Right? So if we can get involved earlier as a group, then we're gonna help dictate the terms of what happens, not respond to it. So it's a good way to take control of your business. And it can be a bit of a marathon to be able to get in front of the right people, but it's gonna be a strategy that is not just for today. It's gonna take you into the future of what your business looks like. And so by embracing this variation of what it is we need to have conversations about, it's gonna be a lifelong change. And as all of us, particularly us that are are older, I won't say mature, we've done a lot of things and had challenges, and usually our biggest growth comes from where we have challenges. We tend to, as humans, get easy. I'll speak to myself. We get relaxed in what we do, and we get a little sloppy. This is making us get out there and just sharpen up what it is we do. How do we lean into the environment and be successful. It is a target rich environment to really get into it and be able to experience, and you've got great partners to be able to work with, and be able to do that. And you need to be actively having these conversations, not when somebody brings it up. Are you actually going out and marketing? Are you actually going out and helping educate your builders? They don't know either, by the way, what lighting can do. How are you going out and helping them get better? Because they're under pressure too. Right? Everybody's under pressure. So they have to be better at what they do. This is one opportunity to do that, and you're creating not just lighting product. You're actually giving them business advice and marketing assistance on how they can do better, what's happening in the market. So get involved early and then be active in it. Have a plan to be able to move forward, and stay on a plan is really the way to be effective. So that's what I would say.

Rebecca:

Alright. Fantastic. I love too, all the, I'm sensing a theme coming out here about, you know, like, there's a lot of change and uncertainty, but it's also a great time to try something new, break out of your comfort zone. See a lot of people putting their favorite quotes here in the chat about how the only constant is change. I'm gonna add in a Ron favorite too, which is get comfortable with being uncomfortable, and that's the only way to grow.

Ron:

There's something that's different about entrepreneurs that last. Right? There's entrepreneurs. No judgment. I think being an entrepreneur is one of the harder things anyone could ever take on in life. But those entrepreneurs that last, they have a certain level of grit and resiliency to them. And so when times get tough, they lean in. And this is a time right now to lean in. And, if you have a little bit of masochist in you, you kind of enjoy it. Like, alright. Let's go solve some problems. Because the little secret is, a lot of your competitors and peers won't lean in. They'll make excuses. So this is like an awesome time to focus, refocus, take a fresh look at your business, and just look for opportunities on how to do things better, work harder, be smarter, and, ultimately, design your business for success. You know? Agility and being nimble are one of the keys to being able to last. And you don't wanna just last, but you wanna last and you wanna make money doing it. Right? You wanna be a profitable business in good times and bad times. And, but everyone here on this panel is doing it. Everyone that is tuned in, absolutely. You clearly care. You're watching a webinar on the subject. You're eager to learn. So congrats to all of you.

David:

I just wanna emphasize what Ron was saying in that, you know, I was reading a book recently, and it was saying, you know, basically, the difference, the only key difference between entrepreneurs that succeeded and entrepreneurs that didn't succeed that could really be separated out, because of course there are many different factors, was the entrepreneurs who succeeded just stayed at it long enough. They just kept after it long enough. And the others, they weren't in it because they gave up. So, yeah, it's hard, but stick with it.

Matt:

Yeah. I'll add real quick to that. There's two things that I'm observing. One is well, and I think most of us know this to be true. Winning in business is really just getting to be able to play the game every single day. Right? And, you know, there's multiple facets to winning, but, ultimately, you know, one of the main goals should be to just be able to continue to play the game. So that's one. The second piece I'm observing today is there's so much foundationally that we all believe in that is true and real regardless of what's happening in the economy. And it's only when there's big shifts or uncertainty that, those true you know, those entrepreneurs who are built to last will show and the others will fall off to the wayside.

Rebecca:

Alright. So we heard from Mark talking about adding lighting, shading. It's a new product category. We'd like to shift into another opportunity for revenue growth in your area, which is, ongoing monthly revenue. I wanna turn the mic over to Joey here who's built OneVision in this business around recurring monthly service models. So, Joey, I know that through OneVision, you have a lot of data, a lot of insights into RMR service models and maintenance plans in this space, and we'd just love to hear your observations on kind of the resiliency and the retention in these types of plans right now. And then based on that, how can dealers structure or roll out their own recurring revenue service models as a way to really stabilize your business?

Joseph:

Yeah. Thanks, Rebecca. You know, when I think about service in the context of a down market or struggling market, it brings me back to my early days when I started doing service in earnest full time, as a sort of technology support provider to families in Boston. And I started that in 2008 in the middle of the recession then, and I grew like wildfire. And what it taught me and helped me appreciate is that, while you may see a slowdown of sorts on the project side, the other side of that reality is that the clients who already have all these systems are not going to stop. They're not gonna let them go by the wayside. Right? And so, yes, you may see, you know, big projects turn into small upgrades and things like that, but what you will also see is a continued commitment to servicing and supporting their technology. So if you have a business model that allows you to generate revenue and profits from doing ongoing service and support, you will likely see that business model, that segment of the business be much more stable, through these times. And, you know, there's a couple different ways to slice this, and to think about the value. Some people like to just think big picture, and there's some intuitive concepts I'll share. And some people like the financial nitty gritty, and I'll share some of those as well. I think, generally speaking, we probably can all agree that the best new sales come from referrals. And, you know, that allows us to grow in a really efficient and effective way. And referrals are gonna come from clients who are really satisfied with service and support. And so continuing to pay attention on how to take care of your clients and do so in a sustainable way for your business is critical to long term success, for your business and your brand. But that doesn't mean that you have to struggle through it. Right? So, you know, I was taught long ago that, when I was once really frustrated when a client called me at nine o'clock at night and I got pulled out of a movie. And my brother asked me when I came back in huffing and puffing, and he was like, how much would you have to charge so that you would actually smile and pick up that call and not be so frustrated? And it was a really big unlock for me. And it helped me actually very shortly thereafter get to a place where I boldly raised my rates to three hundred bucks an hour. And I was like, man, like, three hundred bucks an hour, I will be stoked to pick up that call every single time. And I'm not saying that's the rate that everybody should charge. I'm merely describing the mentality that I believe you should have to start to look at your service department with a smile and want to invest in it on behalf of your clients and your business. It's just a way of flipping the script for yourself. You don't have to be a victim through this process. Your clients clearly want something. They need something. They need your availability. They need your support. They need your expertise. They need your responsiveness. Yes. Those are difficult things to do. And there are maybe some solutions out there to do them, whether it's with our company or others or even internally within your own team. But the question is, are you going to lean into it and see it as a source of growth and profitability for your business in service of your clients, or are you gonna see it as this thing that you have to keep up with and you just have to do? So to share some numbers around this, and I'll lay out a couple concepts. One is lifetime value, and another one is retention and sort of net revenue retention. And lifetime value is thinking about what is the value of your client over the course of their entire span with your business. And that's really important to think about, I think, in this industry because we typically just think about the value of the project. But each of you can probably run through a little exercise and ask yourself, okay. If I succeed with that project, what will service look like on an ongoing basis? How many billable hours will they generate on a monthly or annual basis? How many upgrade projects, and what will those be on a regular basis? How many referrals might I get from that client? And you can put dollar values to that, and that's the true lifetime value of the client. And when I've run these analyses along with our partners, I've generally come to the conclusion that the lifetime value of a client, if you do service the right way, is two to three times the size of the project itself. And let that sink in for a moment. Right? So if we do service appropriately and properly, then when we are going for a thirty thousand dollar sale, we're really actually going for a sixty to ninety thousand dollar sale lifetime with that client. Right? So that's one thing. Another element to consider, and by the way, a supporting element to that is that our average, across our hundreds of partners that we have around the country, we help facilitate their support subscriptions. And, you know, they build support subscriptions using our tools and our services, and then they sell those to their clients. The average value of a monthly support subscription for remote support and other benefits is a hundred and twenty dollars a month, and that is up from eighty dollars a month about five years ago. The flip side of that, by the way, is that the churn on this is roughly ten percent a year, which tells us that your average clients can actually stay with you for a decade. So just on the recurring revenue alone, we're looking at an additional, on average, roughly fourteen thousand dollars. And that's just the recurring revenue. Then there's all sorts of billable hours that come with it. There's upgrade projects. There's tons of ripple effects from that. So that sort of, hopefully, paints a picture of lifetime value. The net revenue retention element is another way to just think about things, is if all you had to do with your business going forward was to start with the existing client base that you have today, what would your revenue look like just from that client base? And on the project side, it would not be great. We continuously need to get new projects and new clients, so we have to continuously invest in sales and marketing to acquire new clients to get those additional projects. But on the service side, that net revenue retention, it could easily be a hundred or even a hundred and ten percent. Meaning, if we take all the clients that we had on January first in the service department and looked at the revenue we got from those same clients over the next year, would it be the same revenue that we got in the year before in the service department? And if you're doing service right, it totally could be the same, which is to say that you can have a very consistent and even possibly growing revenue stream if you focus just on your service department and executing it properly. And so lastly, I'll close with what does it mean to execute on it properly? First, the key to appreciate is every company is at a different stage in their life cycle. Some are fifty plus employees. Some are just one or two. How are you gonna do service? And I'll go back to what I started this conversation with way at the beginning, and I'll say it's about leaning into the conversation with your client. So figure out and get comfortable with what you are willing to promise and commit to your client. Again, there are ways for you to commit beyond what you can just do by yourself. Sign up with a service like ours. You can do 24/7 support. But if that's not your jam and you want to commit to providing eight AM to eight PM support, that's cool too. But identify something, put it down in bullets or in writing, and provide that commitment to your clients. Because what I suspect your clients will want more than anything is to know that you stand by your system, your product, your work, and you will be there for them even if it's eight AM to eight PM, Monday to Friday, or whatever it is. And if you start with defining that product, you can now put a price on that product. And trust me, most clients these days expect some price for ongoing service and support, and I would argue that most would be surprised if all you did was propose a project with nothing following on afterwards. And dare I say, it might even be a red flag for some. And so the most valuable clients are likely gonna be the ones who actually really appreciate that ongoing service and support is worth something. So, I hope that's helpful, and happy to take questions now or follow-up after if there are any questions in the chat.

Rebecca:

Yeah. Thank you, Joey. Great answer. I think Joey will be available if you wanna drop some follow ups in the chat. Love all those thoughts that you shared. That was fantastic data. Let's move ahead. Jason, I'd like to turn to you now. So, let's say a lot of these businesses, people here on this webinar are probably looking at making pricing changes or service changes, right now. On the day to day, what is the best way, or your advice, to start operationalizing those changes, any changes that they're making across proposals, across contracts, project teams. And do you have any advice for people who may need to be restructuring pricing contracts, mid project, in a way that maintains client trust?

Jason:

Yeah. So, you know, a lot of times when we see our companies grow and scale, right, it breaks operations, but those cracks that are forming get exposed when we have things like this happening. Right? Those of us that are around during the recession in 2008, right, we have this growing business and then this economic event and change, just put a spotlight on all those operational gaps that happened during COVID as well. And the same thing's happening now. So as it relates to price changes, you know, there's three operational gaps that I see that always are affecting integration firms, and this is gonna put a spotlight on them. So one is a proper handoff from sales to production. If you don't have a proper handoff where sales is handing over the project to production, reviewing scope of work, making sure you have documents to what some of the other points that others were saying, which is getting in front of it, it's gonna amplify the problem as it relates to tariffs. Right? Because a product was sold and it was put on a proposal, now there's a tariff charge. Right? You can catch that in that hand off. But you should be doing that anyway. So if you're not, put a hand off meeting in place even with a loose agenda to just get the team to sync. The second place where that gets caught is weekly production meetings, right, or biweekly meetings, sitting down with the team to find out what's the status of the project, what's left to get completed, what phase do we have coming up next, are there outstanding change orders. This should be happening already, but if it's not, putting tariffs on top of it is just gonna magnify it. And then the other one is just specifically on change orders. Right? Making sure someone has ownership over the change order process. And, again, with tariffs being overlaid on top of that, it's just gonna magnify the problem. And then specifically around, you know, tariffs in general, what is your process in place currently? Is there someone that's responsible for managing communication? So we find out there's a tariff, you know, increase coming from vendors. We get it from our manufacturers' reps. Do we have a spreadsheet that kind of captures all of it? You know, tariff, no tariff, what's the tariff, when is it coming into effect? And then bringing that into those weekly meetings to then align and sync all those checkpoints and all your payment schedules. We just finished prewire, and typically, we're gonna invoice for product and equipment at that point. Who's responsible for updating the status so we can send out that invoice? And then who's responsible for communicating that to the clients? Again, if you already have these things in place, like a change order process, a proper handoff, and a weekly meeting, it's easy to bring in the tariff conversation and just get in front of it. Because if you don't, it could potentially bury you with what's going on.

Rebecca:

Thank you, Jason. That was awesome advice. I did see someone pop up in the chat asking about the recording. This is being recorded, and I will send this recording out to everyone after this webinar. So no worries. You'll have a chance to rewatch it. Ron, wanna turn over to you now and just talk about, I know you spend day in and day out talking to dealers about their businesses, about what they're seeing, growth in the industry. So we'd love to get your take on what you're hearing and seeing about the impact tariffs are having. And then, also, what should dealers be doing right now in order to stay visible and keep bringing in business? You're on mute, though.

Ron:

I'm that guy. So I, first of all, wanna commend all our panelists here for such awesome content. Well done. In terms of tariffs, you know, I'll pull up my magic eight ball here. You know, I think the cost increases and the volatility are likely gonna be here for the foreseeable future for reasons that we've already discussed. Manufacturers have increased costs. They're not likely gonna pull back on their price increases. And so the dealers really need to accommodate the strategies in the way they're designing their proposals. There could be price increases, every few weeks for the foreseeable months and quarters. It is possible. So it's appropriate to plan ahead and be thinking of what is your price lock on your proposals. Are you ordering high risk SKUs in advance, or trying to ultimately protect your bottom line. So those are smart things to consider. The other thing, when you have periods of volatility, you'll usually notice it because the stock market starts to do weird things. You could look at, you know, fed rates, you could look at mortgage rates, you could look at inflation. When you have periods of volatility, a lot of times, the luxury consumer that many of you are selling to won't necessarily cancel, but they'll pause. Right? So they'll pause, they'll observe. The reality is they're good financially. You know? Many of these luxury consumers make money when markets go up and when they go down. Life is not fair, and that's just the truth. But what they will do is they'll pause. And so if they pause, it means there's some point where they unpause. And that means a flood of work. And that equally has stresses on your business. And that will also be happening at some point. I can't tell you when, but it's, you know, important to be mindful of that. And where it gets really tricky, as Paul mentioned already, is when it comes to labor. So some of you might be operating lean in terms of labor, and then there's gonna be a flood of work, hopefully, maybe. And how do you handle that? And so, obviously, what would be better is to not, you know, ride those peaks and valleys, but to be able to operate more in the middle in the mean. So it's just something to keep in mind. And, admittedly, the mid tier customer is slowed down or I won't say they paused. Many of them canceled or have severely value engineered their projects. And there will you know, anyone that's been in business long enough knows nothing lasts. So what goes up goes down, and what goes down goes up. So those customers will be back. It's just a matter of when and making sure that your business is set up to succeed. As it relates to marketing, step one, I'm just gonna restate a theme that you've heard here, and that is that we want you to control the narrative, particularly as it relates to pricing, tariffs, uncertainty. I'm gonna mention this dirty word. This is marketing. This is you actually out there communicating with your customers in a proactive way. That is both your salespeople, you are the owners, but also could be through social media, could be through you, the owner, recording a Loom video and sending that out to your active prospects or even your entire customer base. Just letting them know what's happening, how your business is handling that. That's a very positive proactive tool and method that you could implement. And your customers are gonna trust you more when you're a great communicator, and that's ultimately gonna lead to growth of your business. Additionally, you wanna look at the sales detail, and this gets into maybe some of Matt's sales training that he offers. And that is that customers are purchasing with emotion. It's an emotional decision to purchase, and they're justifying with facts. And so you wanna be looking at those lifestyle triggers, those lifestyle enhancement benefits of the technology that you all are offering and really focusing on that in the conversations with the customer. Getting them to imagine what life is gonna be like with this technology in their home, or some of you do small business. And that's ultimately gonna help them more actively pull the trigger with you on that gear for their project versus focusing on technical details. Many of you are gonna be inspired or maybe lulled into saying, well, I need to cut expenses, so I need to cut marketing. That is a very bad idea. You need to keep the lights on in your business even if things are slowing down. But the reality is when things slow down, you wanna be in pole position to win the business when things speed back up. And so that is a matter of you actively communicating with your customer base. They're the best source of referrals and upsells for you. And you want to actively be communicating with your target prospects and customers, people that will be buying from you in the future. So we recommend that you think about marketing as a fixed expense. This is an always active expense in your business. It's not a turn it on, turn it off, because your business is gonna become unnecessarily volatile. You're gonna be feast and famine. And what you really want is a steady flow of visibility to help you grow your business in good times and in bad times. Then the last little nugget I'll give you, many of your manufacturers have co-marketing dollars. Many of you thoroughly underuse those marketing dollars. The manufacturers need to grow their business. They need to stabilize their orders to their factories, and they need business to continue to move. So this is where you really can partner and collaborate with your manufacturers and often share the expense of marketing activities. Architects or designers, your manufacturers will help fund putting those events on. They will help fund proactive outreach to your customers and your target customers. So talk to your reps, talk to your manufacturers about ways that you can collaborate. And I just want all of you to remember, although some of you are maybe a little slow or a little challenged right now in terms of business flow, this too will change. Right? Business flows in cycles. And so you need to be doing the right type of activities now to be prepared when the business flow speeds back up. So thanks, Rebecca.

Rebecca:

Yeah. Thank you. Ron, I see a great comment here from Kurt too that says, marketing is messaging. Think about what you're saying and focus on how you can bring value. Make it about them, not about you. I love that. Thank you, guys. We are right at time here at twelve thirty. What I'm gonna go ahead and do is share this screen that I had up at the beginning. You'll see a QR code on it. It will take you to a landing page where you can read the full bios for each of our panelists. It also has,we would love for you guys to fill out the little questionnaire that is on the page. It is asking you if you would be open to us doing a second session if that's something that you would want. Please, we would love to hear that and what topics you'd like discussed. Or if not, that's okay too. And then it will also have, if you would like to get into contact, to speak at a dedicated time or more in-depth with any of these amazing panelists, you can do that as well, and that message will get to them. Thank you so much for everyone who's here. Thank you to this group of panelists. I appreciate you taking so much time out of your day to share this knowledge, and I hope this is valuable for everyone.

Ron Callis is the CEO of One Firefly, LLC, a digital marketing agency based out of South Florida and creator of Automation Unplugged. Founded in 2007, One Firefly has quickly became the leading marketing firm specializing in the integrated technology and security space. The One Firefly team work hard to create innovative solutions to help Integrators boost their online presence, such as the elite website solution, Mercury Pro.