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Automation Unplugged

Automation Unplugged is a Facebook Live show recorded weekly with our host Ron Callis, Owner and CEO of the digital marketing agency, One Firefly. In each Automation Unplugged episode, Ron speaks with leading industry personalities and technology professionals to discuss all things business development, technology trends, and more. These interviews are designed to help our clients and members of the custom integration industry keep up-to-date with the latest news as well as learn from experts in the field.

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Home Automation Podcast Episode #106: An Industry Q&A With Evan Rosen

In this weeks home automation show of Automation Unplugged, foreclosure lawyer, Evan Rosen shares his insight on how to approach mortgages and personal debts as we deal with the COVID-19 pandemic.

Home Automation Podcast Episode #106: An Industry Q&A With Evan Rosen

This week's home automation podcast features our host Ron Callis interviewing Evan Rosen. Recorded live on Thursday April 2nd, 2020 at 12:30 p.m. EST.

About Evan Rosen

Evan began his career in South Florida in 1997 and since then has fought to help defend people against foreclosure and improper debt collection.

With over 20 years of practicing law, Evan experienced the effects of the 2008 market crash first hand. His unique perspective on what he learned during that time brings insight, clarity, and hope to our industry on how to approach mortgages and personal debts in light of COVID-19.

Interview Recap

  • How COVID-19 is changing the law substantively and procedurally
  • Evan’s perspective on the CARE Act involving mortgage protection and it can benefit renters
  • Types of mortgages that do qualify for forbearance programs and what business owners should look out for to avoid building up fees
  • Evan’s understanding of how the PPP payroll protection program will be determined and when companies will receive their payroll dues

SEE ALSO: Home Automation Podcast Episode #105: A Custom Integration Industry Q&A With Navot Shoresh

Transcript:


 

Ron: Welcome to another episode of Automation Unplugged! This is Show #105. As you probably have paid attention to, we're trying to get more than our usual one show in a week. And right now we're actually on course for two or three a week as we try to find information and guests that are going to be helpful to you as you're out there you know dealing with the pandemic and trying to keep your business moving forward. Or like some of you I've got many of my customers and they said they've never been busier. If you're serving certain pockets of the community that are really needing or demanding your services maybe you're pleasantly busier than normal. I am going to just share here in this opening discussion something for you guys to consider and that is I'm going to show here in the stream, there's a great book for you to pick up and if you haven't read this I read this 20 years ago I had a mentor of mine pointed me to this book and it was Who Moved My Cheese.

"Often what feeds you today or what is your normal today, it might move or it might change and that you need to change if you want to continue being fed or if you want to continue prospering."

It has to do with the fundamental concept in life and in business. Often you know what feeds you today or what is your normal today, it might move or it might change and that you need to change if you want to continue being fed or if you want to continue prospering. And it's a really quick read. I think this maybe might take 30 minutes or maybe an hour to thumb through it but there's a really nice story here and I think it's going to help you may be put into perspective what's happening. Aside from the virus will get over the virus and everything will be back to normal at some point but the economy is going to be different for quite a while and it's just a matter of how to evaluate what you're doing and how you're operating and what you're offering and how you're offering it to perhaps you need to do that differently on either right now in in the middle of this and or on the other side of this. And so just my recommendation check that out and if you end up checking it out let me know what you think. I'm all ears.

All right let me jump right into my guests, I've got a friend of mine. He's a real estate lawyer here in South Florida. His name's Evan Rosen and he has been practicing real estate law for some time. I'm going to have him go through that with you. I was reading his bio, he's been going through real estate law for the past 20 years. He's been defending a lot of people out there regarding mortgages and foreclosures and short sales and all sides of real estate law usually out there fighting for the person that needs someone to fight for them. And I thought who better than to bring him in and give some legal perspective as it relates to mortgage protection and renter protection and even we'll talk just a little bit about the CARES Act payroll protection for small business. Again this is a little bit of a different type of guest. Evan is not from the custom integration industry or business but I think he's going to bring a lot of value and maybe shed some light on some of these topics for you. So let's go ahead and bring in Evan. What's up, Mr. Evan?

Evan: How are you, sir.

Ron: I'm good, buddy. How are you?

Evan: I'm hanging in there.

Ron: You dressed up for the occasion, you're looking all lawyer-ey!

Evan: I had the dress up today.

Ron: You even shaved man. I'm proud of you. I'm sitting here unshaven but I'm usually unshaven, so.

Evan: I groomed a little today.

Ron: Evan tell us a little bit about yourself. I like to start with just the background story. Where'd you come, from where'd you grew up?

Evan: Yeah. Thanks. Born and raised in Hollywood, Florida. One of many lawyers in my family my father is a longtime practicing lawyer and former judge and grew up eating dinners at the dinner table with my father telling us the story of the day or the legal question of the day and seeking our non-lawyerly feedback as to what we thought was fair. And he did that a lot. I learned a lot from my daddy was a great mentor still is a great mentor. And I started practicing law in 1997 and I did litigation civil litigation personal injury medical malpractice workers compensation. When the foreclosure crisis came in 2008-2009 I started getting a lot of phone calls and I there were days I was more upset at people who I thought were taking advantage of others in a bad situation.

I juggle between being upset at those people versus being upset at the financial industry. I eventually dove in I was uncomfortable referring people after a couple of bad experiences I dove in and before I knew it that area the law had taken over my practice and so much of my life. I blogged years ago, "Hello my name is Evan and I'm addicted to fighting financial institutions," that became like a 12 step. I needed help from this fight I just got so sucked in and I still am. I found some more balance in my life over the last few years but -

Ron: Are the banks the bad guys? Is that a fair role they play in society?

Evan: You know I've told my kids as simply as I can at times that Daddy fights the bad guys. And you know I had to explain that I don't have a sword or a knife. It's you know more verbally and over a computer. But yeah, when you think about the last go-round the bailouts and all that stuff certainly was enough to cause people to be frustrated and upset but then what happened after that where they were taking lavish vacations and stock buybacks and trillions of dollars of bailout and almost free money at that point. And rather than helping people they just put help themselves so the icing on the cake, I think deservedly they've earned that phrase or moniker the bad guys. And I see it in court.

Some of them are nice people and some of them I don't know, I'm not a psychiatrist but I don't know if they were bullied as kids and this is their chance to reverse the cycle and be the bully and be dishonest and you someone out of their house. I mean very few people take joy in that. There are definitely some people who enjoy kicking someone out of their home. God bless them that's thankfully not me. I wouldn't want to do that in a million years.

Ron: Evan, this is a live show so we have people commenting rapid fire here on Facebook. On occasion as we go put some of these up on the screen. I've got Alison and she says she's super excited to hear from you and wanted to know-how has the virus impacted your day-to-day at your practice?

Are you finding yourself even busier during these times? Your principal business is fighting the banks and defending people from, well I don't want to put words in your mouth. What is your normal day to day and has it changed?

Evan: Yes. I'm still really busy. I wasn't sure what to expect. We kind of scrambled the office mid-March, March 13th was a Friday. We went home that day and I have not been back to the office since. We've been cloud-based for a long time. Our software, our online data server. I haven't had a server since Ron you and I met. It's going on 10 years now, give or take. There was a fairly easy transition I do a lot of work on weekends especially I get out of the office I'll go to a coffee shop, I'll of park with my laptop somewhere and I have a second screen with the iPad. I've been mobile for a while. That part of it was not that much of a transition. It was a little bit for our staff.

Our core business is helping people defend against foreclosure and fight in proper debt collection. During this time I've had a lot of calls with clients who are understandably concerned about those exact things that we already do. We've posted two informational blog pieces, 1 explaining how it's impacting the law initially, that one broke down jurisdiction federal state and local for us here in South Florida, Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach to share what's going on with the courts.

The push is still for cases to proceed. The push is for a virtual courtroom, kind of like what we're doing. Zoom based. I had a seminar there's a zoom conference with 241 lawyers and judges last week and the push is on to get as much processed as possible, we don't want the virus to stop justice. There are injustices taking place that society needs our justice service system to process. That is moving forward as best we can. There are pros and cons to that. The evidentiary hearings I posted a link to the great cross-examination of Colonel Jessup from A Few Good Men where Tom Cruise is using spatial distancing to crowd Colonel Jessup.

Ron: You can't handle the truth!

Evan: Right. Did you order the Code Red? He gets right up in his face and there's an aspect of being alive that's so powerful in cross-examination that we're gonna miss.

Ron: We're going to lose that in a virtual setting.

Evan: Then there are also aspects of it that you can do a good chunk of what needs to be done virtually to. Let's not you know throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Ron: The justice system can't stop just because there's a virus. Is it fair to say that the justice system was not ready for this?

Evan: We talked years ago the federal system has cameras installed on all our courthouses they were ready and wanting to do this for a long time but we just couldn't get over that next hurdle of actually doing it. Most courts will allow you to do telephonic appearances but it's still pretty rare and for good reason.

I don't want my opposing counsel there live making facial expressions or nonverbal communication that I can't. I don't know about it because I'm on the phone so I never do that. Now we're going to start having to do that and there will be some pros and cons to it. The second blog piece that I did there just to go back to that was about the CARES Act.

Ron: I know a lot of folks going into this are very keen to hear your take on just a number of aspects of the CARES Act. Do you want to use this opportunity to maybe jump into like mortgage protection? What's there? What's your interpretation? How are renters being protected?

Evan: Sure. The CARES Act is for that purpose. First of all, it's 335 pages. I started with the good intention of reading all of it and I quickly found that huge chunks of it were for the medical industry, unemployment issues, and things that I'm not familiar with. You'll see sentences where they'll reference another provision in a medical statute or an unemployment statute and they'll replace certain wording so you can't read that unless you flip over to the other statute you don't know what in context what they're changing. There's a fair amount of that and eventually, I just started bookmarking and reading at least the headers and then I eventually made my way to the mortgage and eviction sections and that's a little over four pages out of 335.

I think that's interesting to know out of the gate that such a small part of the CARES Act deals with housing whether you're an owner or a tenant. A chunk of it deals with about half of that page in a quarter page and a third deals with if you're an investor of an income property that has designed to house five or more families in one structure. Half of the three or four and change pages aren't even for end users all that much, they're also geared towards investors. The first thing to know about the CARES Act for this purpose is that it's only focused or applicable to people or for people that are living in a property that has a federally backed mortgage loan. Federally backed mortgage loan they define as either owned or securitized by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac or it's insured or guaranteed by the Department of Veterans Affairs a V.A loan or an FHA loan. That's pretty much it. There's a couple of other exceptions but that's pretty much it. And the exceptions that I'm thinking of are only for tenants.

There are two other exceptions where I could apply if you're living in a property that was part of a Violence Against Women Act and there was one other small exception. The protections are first of all for a great minority of people. We looked over our cases and only 20% of our caseload would the CARES Act even apply. By the way, if you go to our blog I walk you through step by step how to figure out and this applies to wherever you are. We give links to the Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach public records but there are public records online and every county I've ever looked and I have looked in other states and other counties from time to time. You should be able to fairly easily do a Google search if you live in some county and wherever type it in and type in official public records and whatever blank county and you should find a link you can search by your name.

For purposes of FHA and V.A. if you don't have a copy of your note or a mortgage saved somewhere you'll need to go online to find your mortgage. The note should not be online it shouldn't be recorded publicly but the mortgage will be and the provisions that are that pertain to FHA and V.A. will be in there. But if you already have the known mortgage in your possession or saved somewhere you won't need that step. And then I walk through how you'll know whether it's a V.A. or FHA loan. There are links to find out if your loan has been securitized or purchased by Fannie or Freddie. That's easy enough, you just need the last four of your social and your name and address. Then you determine OK well now there's a supply what does that do? Then you break off into whether or not your property is one, it was designed to house one to four people or was it five or more? One to four they consider a residential property and the other they consider a residential single-family, then the other they consider multifamily.

In a single-family, if you have a Fannie Freddie except or a federally backed loan you can ask your servicer. And I've already gotten a call where a person who's very knowledgeable, who's a mortgage broker called. He believed he has an applicable mortgage and he called a major servicer who already is not complying with the CARES Act already asked, calling for the forbearance program. Which you can make a request that they'll give you 180 days that you don't have to make a payment and then before that 180 day expires you can request a second 180 and pretty much all you need to do is just make a financial attestation, a statement under penalty of perjury, that I have a financial hardship caused by COVID-19. I mean I don't know too many people that can't say that most people will be able to say that under penalty of perjury with complete truth and candor that this has affected them.

The statute references directly or indirectly, that it's indirectly or directly affected you. That's one of the provisions. Now during this period this forbearance period, there can be no extra fees penalties or interest other than what being charged otherwise. This is supposed to be for anyone whether you're current or not. They prefaced this part of the statute regardless of the delinquency status.

Ron: In other words, if you had already not been paying it, that doesn't void you for being able to participate in the CARES Act provision?

Evan: This particular forbearance provision, right. There's the other one, the multifamily. You have to have been current as of February 1 for that provision to apply. But this one, and it's a little misleading. I walk through this on the blog post because let's say that you are not current and my clients already were not current. OK. Well, this says it applies regardless of their status? Great. Well, what applies regardless of their delinquency status? What applies is that there is forbearance which means the bank or the servicer is forbearing any extra interest, penalties, fees for the next X period of time.

Well if you're in foreclosure your loan has been accelerated which means that there are no more payments. All payments are due now. The case law defines acceleration in one of two ways. They both mean the same thing which is one, all my payments are due now or the maturity date of my loan is now, it's not 30 years from now anymore it's now. Either way, the same thing. There are no more payments so what penalties could there be for late payments when you accelerate a loan, there are no payments? By law in Florida, there can be no late fees on an accelerated loan for that very reason. So what extra protection are you getting if you're already in foreclosure? And unfortunately, it feels like nothing on that issue. Now there is another issue that later in the statute they talk about that there is this going to be this process for these types of loans, and it's only these types of loans the single-family variety, that a servicer cannot initiate a foreclosure, move for judgment or a sale, or execute on an eviction until May 18th, 2020. They're giving 60 days from March 18th.

OK. Well, let's process that very carefully. You can't move, you can't file a new lawsuit for until May 18th, that's easy enough. Can't initiate a foreclosure, that's easy enough to understand but you can't move for judgment or a sale until May 18th. OK. Well, I can file discovery. I can have maybe a motion to compel on Discovery, I can litigate the case. I just can't ask for judgment or a sale until May 18th. There is no mention whatsoever of just foreclosure proceedings generally. There is a well-known Latin phrase that goes, Expressio Unius Est Exclusio Alterius. This means, when you mention something but don't mention something else it's presumed the legislature did not include that something else on purpose. They very well know how to write, "This does not apply," or "This does apply to all foreclosure proceedings, all foreclosure proceedings are stopped until May 18th." They didn't write that and they very easily could have. The Latin phrase that I read is part of a principle of statutory construction that the mention of one thing implies the exclusion of another. It seems at this point and there's another guidance in the law that we already had for when you apply for a loan modification, it's the same thing a bank can't move for judgment or sale but they can still litigate their cases, they can still do a lot of things to get it ready for moving for judgment but not actually move for judgment and that's May 18th, that runs out. And that's again only for single-family.

"The takeaway from all of this at this point is if you are facing hardship with a lender, you should pick up the phone and talk to them or you should email and maybe there's something that can be worked out without the need of a federal statute or a state statute."

Going back now to the multifamily, you have to have been current as of February 1. And if you're a tenant this too becomes an issue. And it's really tricky, as a tenant, you can figure out who your landlord is you should know that, you can find out from their mortgage if it's FHA or V.A. I'm not sure if either of those applies for multifamily, certain aspects of FHA are only for lower-income homeowners and first-time homebuyers. I think there is an exception for FHA but generally, that's not for investors. And then how do you know if it's securitized by Fannie or Freddie? Well, you would need your landlord's last four digits of their social, which good luck. Or you can ask them and hopefully, they tell you. And that's kind of really the takeaway from all of this at this point is if you are facing hardship with a lender, you should pick up the phone and talk to them or you should email and maybe there's something that can be worked out without the need of a federal statute or a state statute.

Going back to the break out of the mold the family properties if you are current as of February 2020 then you can apply again stating that you've been affected directly or indirectly and then the servicer in that instance shall provide a 30-day forbearance that can you can extend for an additional 30 days. This is much less than the 180 plus a second 180 that someone might get on a single-family home. During the forbearance period by the way for those multifamily properties, an owner can't evict a tenant can't charge late fees or penalties. The tenant protections appear to be a little better but you have to figure out if your landlord has a federally backed mortgage loan or if it's a loan that's covered as part of the Violence Against Women Act or there is this other rare exception that this could apply to housing that's part of the rural housing voucher program and for that, a landlord cannot evict until July 25th, 2020. Until then you can't evict for other things but they can't evict based upon lack of payment and then they still have to give you 30 days.

Now federal statute that there's already a notice provision in Florida statute. I'm not sure about other states. There is a scenario where they're giving you more notice than the state statute might require or your lease might require. They have to give you 30 days' notice before they evict for lack of payment.

Ron: Evan question what if your mortgage is not in the categories that you just described. What if you are, and maybe clarify exactly how to speak law mortgages, what is the type of mortgage that does not qualify for that? I want to say I've read in the news there are some servicers or mortgage companies offering forbearance programs of different types. Can you speak to that?

Evan: Correct. Yes sure. Gladly. That servicer by servicer and what we're finding is it's very vague. Wells Fargo, for example, they have a provision that's just like what's the CARES Act is, which is we're not going to move for judgment. Now granted it's a much shorter period of time it's 180 days. I think they give you 60. We're not going to move for a judgment or an eviction.

Ron: There's a lot of business owners listening to this live or on the podcast that are saying the sales have dried up or sales have frozen and I don't know what the next eight weeks are going to look like. Should they call their mortgage companies to see if there's a program in place? Is there anything that's official or is it just mortgage by mortgage?

Evan: No, other than the CARES Act and maybe something in an individual state. Now there are some provisions in other states that I've heard about I've not read them but I've heard about them on the news where there are moratoriums on foreclosures and other states we don't have that in Florida. I would recommend contacting a lawyer in your state. There are lawyers that specialize in what we do helping people defend against foreclosure all over the country.

Beyond that, I think it is a good idea to call the servicer. I think the takeaway from this though is you get everything in writing. It is servicer by servicer and it is case by case to some extent. If they're gonna give tell you that they'll waive interest for two months, for example, make sure you get that in an email or you get that in writing. I've had a lot of foreclosure cases where after hurricanes here in South Florida people will call their mortgage servicer asking for some sort of an extension or whatever help just help and the servicer will say "OK great. We have this program where you can pay half of your payment for the next six months."

And this is a fairly common scheme or paradigm and person pays half but what they don't tell you and some of them are very astute, they just didn't read the fine print, is that your regular payments still keep accruing. Even though you're paying half and you're happy about that for the next six months at the end of six months you are now three full months behind with late fees on top of all six months.

Ron: And that's legal?

Evan: Yes.

Ron: It sounds criminal.

Evan: It's horrible. So this is a forbearance program. I've seen it from so many different servicers where they tell you they're going to help you out, just make your half payment but then the fine print is you're going to come out of this thing so much worse than if you struggle to make your payments so.

Ron: A message to our audiences is to, if they get an offer of forbearance or they offer to pay a lower payment for X number of months, they need to make sure they're not actually building up fees or building up back due payments.

Evan: Right.

Ron: I'm going to ask a very narrow question, it might be self-serving. If you own rental properties and your tenant and I'm going to say I think you've already answered this but I'm not very good at legalese so I want you to help translate this for me and our audience. If you own rental properties and if you have tenants, what can you do if your tenant says, "I'm not going to pay you anymore." What do you do? Because you still owe the mortgage company.

Evan: You've got the added aspect here in Dade and Broward and Palm Beach too if I'm not mistaken, they've suspended all evictions. You can file a lawsuit if I'm not mistaken for eviction but they're not allowing sheriffs to go out and serve writs to kick people out of houses. You as a landlord in South Florida are waiting in a situation where there's not a lot that anyone can do to help you. Now if the CARES Act applies then -

Ron: Which you said of your caseload is 20%? How many of the mortgages in America fall under this CARES Act provision?

Evan: I don't know. At one point it was the majority, the Fannie/Freddie they were propped up to help create the secondary mortgage market. It was the great majority of loans and then came the securitization machine where banks started becoming their own Fannie and Freddie with the help of investors on Wall Street pooling money together buying a lot of loans from lenders in the secondary market and so that lenders could then get money back and go back out and let loan again. I don't know the answer to that but I would be surprised, I'm going to guess and say it's probably pretty similar to what my caseload is. I think my caseloads are probably a decent cross-section of what's out there.

Ron: That sounds rather dire, Evan. This is not good news.

Evan: No, I mean I've had these conversations. I have to throw in, too, that it is a downer. And there's just, I try so hard to find positive light and a silver lining to this and to everything. You and I have talked about, I would call it self-help type stuff in the past. The idea of what you focus on grows what you put attention into grows and focusing on negative and complaining is not helping you at all. But we did touch base before we started the show about successful clients that I've had who don't label it and don't get caught up in emotion don't get caught up in for "Poor Me." And they just go for. And they're like, "What do I need to do to get through this and how? I'm going to try it and if door one doesn't work, I'm going to go to door number two and three and four." And they just don't quit.

"They just don't quit. Successful people have that mindset."

Successful people have that mindset. I've seen that with certain clients. One, in particular, comes to mind who was facing foreclosure in '08, he lost a waterfront property - voluntarily. He did a short sale to get out of the litigation. Here we are 10 years later and I just read about how he closed a multimillion-dollar real estate transaction. He's a successful developer. I think that's an important takeaway is don't get caught up. I have friends that are doctors and a surgeon, in particular, I spoke to yesterday a lot of people are going through this.

For the business owners that are on this call the SBA program, there's a lot of information out there. Tomorrow they begin accepting applications for the payroll protection program and you can immediately apply for the economic disaster injury loan through SBA EIDL. There are differences between those two things. It's changing pretty regularly. Last I'd seen, one of the two of them as .5% interest.

Ron: That's right, the disaster loan is .5%.

Evan: Yeah. And two years and you could even get a $10,000 grant out of that if I'm not mistaken. And then the other one the PPP, that could be completely forgiven if you use the money for payroll and rent or other covered expenses. 

Ron: Have you heard on the PPP? Which the filing date is tomorrow, so if you're out there and you're in America and you own a business, you should be planning to either file today if you can early. Evan, you had mentioned that your bank actually was allowing applications today.

Evan: Yeah. The applications are in circulation whether they're processing them or not I don't know but I know you can complete it and send it back to your banker. They hit the press yesterday some time and you can fill out and send them back. I know Iberia Bank locally was rock and rolling already as of yesterday.

Ron: Have you heard on the payroll program, what the timeframe for payout? Have you heard how they're going to determine who will receive a payout for payroll and then when that payroll, in fact, will be paid out?

Evan: It's a loan that you get through an SBA lender. The economic disaster loan is direct through the federal government and Treasury sends you a check. The PPP, you apply for a loan and then the money comes to you and you have if I'm not mistaken it is a max of a 10-year loan. It is a I think it's 4% max Interest Rate, zero prepayments. You have no payments for six months. After six months is up they'll look back and see how you spent the proceeds, they'll look at your books and records, and the eight weeks post the loan disbursement, if sums expended for payroll for employees less than $100,000 and during that eight week period and rent mortgage utility mortgage interest, I think it is not just mortgage payment, that that is then forgiven.

The SBA website does a really nice job laying that out. I've also attended a couple of webinars on this. I attended one yesterday, I didn't go very far but I attended one yesterday. There was a lawyer in Boca or Del Rey who worked for the SBA for 10 or 15 years so he had a lot of insight. But even he said it's changing regularly and the best thing is to do to speak at the SBA or go to the SBA website and this is a common theme or common aspect of these discussions. This is all unprecedented.

We're to some extent doing our best to you know funnel our way through. And that goes back to that success mindset of not letting any of that get you caught up. I have clients who say, "Why bother?" They're not going to do it. Then I have the clients that obviously do everything, "I'm going to apply for everything and then I'll figure it out. I'll see what works and what doesn't. If that one doesn't work I'll reject it." That's the mindset that I've seen now during this. As we're entering a second crisis looking back it's really easy to see the successful people and how they were approaching it versus the ones that you know just bury their heads in the sand or upset or full of complaining and negativity, a vast difference in the result.

Ron: Amen. Evan thanks for all that you do buddy. You helped so many people and you fight for people and there aren't enough people like you in society.

Evan: Thanks, Ron. It's interesting how we met and the connection and I've always sensed in your heart that you've been motivated by this cause, there's something that's called to you about the injustice of people working hard and maybe not getting a fair shake or not having a level playing field. I still can't figure out exactly why it is that that motivates me. You and I talked about this we had coffee a few weeks ago but there's just something inside of me and you have it too and it's it's a blessing. I enjoy serving and helping people and I'm still very much addicted to fighting financial institutions.

"I actually don't see the size of the company I work for the people the business owners that want to be better and they want to grow for themselves and their team and their families and their communities and those people come in all shapes and sizes."

Ron: You know, you're a masochist. What can you say? I am too. I serve my customers, some are watching and listening now and people ask me all the time, you must only work for the big guys. No, I actually don't see the size of the company I work for the people the business owners that want to be better and they want to grow for themselves and their team and their families and their communities and those people come in all shapes and sizes. Those are one-man operations up to you know 80 person operations and everything in between there's a full spectrum. All of those people are our clients at One Firefly. It's because I think it is fun to fight for the little guy who else is going to do it and they need help just like all of us.

Evan: Thank you, sir.

SHOW NOTES:

Foreclosure defense lawyer, Evan Rosen, shares his recommendations on approaching the current crisis by adding clarity on the type of loans that are out there for businesses and mortgage protections available to homeowners.

Ron Callis is the CEO of One Firefly, LLC, a digital marketing agency based out of South Florida and creator of Automation Unplugged. Founded in 2007, One Firefly has quickly became the leading marketing firm specializing within the integrated technology and security space. The One Firefly team work hard to create innovative solutions to help Integrators boost their online presence, such as the elite website solution, Mercury Pro.

Resources and links from the interview:

If you'd like to learn more about Evan and his work, you can find him at evanmrosen.com. Evan and his team are also on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn

More Automation Unplugged:

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