#376: Rob Doherty on What Separates Winning Lighting Integrators
In this week's episode of AU, guest Rob Doherty of Lucetta CI joins Ron to discuss the eight characteristics he sees in integrators who are winning with lighting.
This week's episode of Automation Unplugged features Rob Doherty, Director of Business Development at Lucetta CI, the custom integrator lighting brand from Elemental Brands. Lucetta CI is built exclusively for integrators and focuses on linear lighting.
Rob and I have known each other for decades. He's in his 30th year in custom integration, starting in sales at ETC Florida, one of the country's leading lighting control integrators, before moving into manufacturing with LiteTouch, Crestron, and Legrand's Vantage. He also happens to be my personal linear lighting coach, as you'll hear.
In this episode, Rob and I discussed:
- The eight characteristics he sees in integrators who are winning with lighting
- Why starting small, in your own home or showroom, leads to bigger projects
- And How a lighting champion, lighting designers, and electrician relationships speed up growth
Whether lighting is brand new to your business or already part of it, Rob shares what’s working for the dealers getting it right. So settle in and enjoy my conversation with Rob Doherty. Let's get started!
Transcript
Ron:
Hello there. Ron Callis here with another episode of Automation Unplugged. I hope you're having a great day, maybe a great morning, maybe a great evening, depending on when you tune in. Maybe you like to check out these shows when they drop. I would say drop live, but we drop them every Wednesday morning. Every week we drop a new show. There's a team very hard at work here at One Firefly producing these shows, both getting our guests lined up, a day of recording, and then all the post-production. So big shout-out to our team at One Firefly, all of our Automation Unplugged production folks. You know who you are and know that you're appreciated. And as always, our shows are brought to you by the teams, plural, over at One Firefly and Amplify People, because they are working so hard to serve our clients. It affords me the opportunity to take the time to do these interviews, and I'm very thankful and very appreciative. I hope you all continue to enjoy and benefit from these interviews. We do produce them for you to help you listen and learn and ultimately grow your business. And speaking of listening and learning, today we've got a really good guest, and I know we're all going to learn some things, in particular about lighting, but more broadly too. This fella, I've known him for multiple decades now. I know, it means we're getting old. I've seen him have wonderful careers in a number of places, all super highly respected places, and we'll dig into that in his background when we get him on. But today I'm happy to bring you Rob Doherty. He is the Director of Business Development with Lucetta, and specifically with Elemental LED and Lucetta CI. We'll learn about those brands and how they fit into the overall ecosystem over there at the parent company. He's well entrenched in all things integrator, controls, and now the just exploding category of linear lighting. We're going to have a lot of fun because he understands you. He understands your challenges. And he is out there talking to folks every single day, both at the manufacturer level in terms of controls integration, and at the dealer level in terms of teaching, training, coaching, and mentoring integrators in their journey in lighting. One of the topics we're going to jump into that I know many of you are going to want to lean in on or replay is that he's going to go through some of the top characteristics of the integrators that are really succeeding with lighting. We're going to go in depth into that and try to get as much experience share out there as possible. So without further ado, let me go ahead and bring in Rob and see how he's doing.
Rob:
Hey, Ron. How are you doing today?
Ron:
I am good. It's raining cats and dogs outside my window here. I don't know if it's going to come through on the audio recording, but thankfully I got my morning walk in this morning, so I got my little bit of exercise and I'm ready to have a fun conversation with you. How about yourself?
Rob:
Doing great. It's sunny and beautiful here in Greenville, South Carolina, so we're enjoying the weather and taking advantage of that in the evenings and spending some time outside. It's been raining quite a bit there lately. I was down there last week, and every day, everybody kept complaining about the amount of rain you're getting there in South Florida, so I can relate. I lived down there for a while.
Ron:
I am so spoiled, and I admit that I'm spoiled. I don't get in my car very much these days, and I don't have to leave the house. But I do remember the days of when I was at Crestron and you were over at ETC.
Rob:
That's right.
Ron:
And I would be driving up and down 95 to go visit you guys, and I'd be stuck in those afternoon showers every summer. We're at the tail end of summer. Maybe summer's officially over, but it's still those mid-afternoon showers every day that can bring even an interstate to a standstill.
Rob:
It can. I think you still have to get through October before summer's over down there in South Florida.
Ron:
I think you're right. How were your travels in South Florida?
Rob:
They were excellent. Enjoyed spending time with our current dealers, as well as prospective dealers. You talk about both of us being in the industry a long time, but there's so much to learn every day about our integrators, our customers, and our businesses. You can't take anything for granted. Even though I was an integrator for 10 years with ETC Florida down there, you take the approach of what can I learn from their business every day that I can take back to Elemental Brands or Lucetta CI and share, and help us build our business from the ground up to cater to the challenges of our integrator partners today. It's a lot of fun. I really enjoy spending time with them.
Ron:
You've been at Lucetta CI now for a year? For more than a year?
Rob:
It's been a year already.
Ron:
What has been most surprising to you? Because you were on the control side, and we'll get into your background, but you were with Crestron and then with Legrand. Now that you're purely on the lighting side, what's maybe been one of the biggest aha moments for you as you've entered into this, what seems from the outside like an exploding category?
Rob:
There's so much to learn every day. That's probably why I've been in this industry for 30 years. You learn something new every day about technology, and our technology continues to evolve. You've interviewed some great people in this industry on multiple podcasts, and they tell you how technologies have changed and evolved. So I'm learning something new every day, and again, we don't take things for granted. But I think the biggest aha moment for me is this. Being in controls all my career, controlling lighting, I can see now why integrators are getting involved in offering lighting fixtures and installing lighting fixtures and even taking it that far. I can truly see now, being on both sides, why it's a fit for integrators to take on lighting. They've been controlling lighting for 20 years, 30 years, maybe even more, some of the frontier-leading integrators in our industry. It's a common sense thing, but it was very much an aha moment for me to say, "I get it. Now let's figure out how we can help our integrators who've been doing lighting controls for 30 years be successful implementing lighting into their business."
Ron:
Now I have to give you a public thank you, because you act as my personal linear lighting coach.
Rob:
Oh, you're welcome. That's great. I'd love to hear about your overall experience doing lighting in your home. Just one or two points for the listeners of some of the things you've learned and experienced.
Ron:
I brought props. I don't often bring props to the podcast, but I went to the garage and went to my Lucetta box of goods, and I brought some props. Just so the audience understands, I was laying in bed one night looking up at my ceiling, and I won't have all the right words, so you're going to help me correct these words. My ceiling has this square recess. I don't know what that's called. First of all, what would that be called?
Rob:
A cove.
Ron:
A cove. There you go, folks. I told you I'm no expert here. But I had a cove, and I just started to imagine, because I've been in some nice houses and I see what our customers' customers have. That's not my house, I'm very proud of my house, but it's not that house. But I did have a cove in my bedroom, and I started to imagine if I put in a molding around the perimeter, I could probably hide a linear in it. I could have a really neat effect, in addition to the chandelier in the center of my bedroom. I could get some nice ambient lighting and play with levels of lighting, right? I know that's what makes lighting beautiful, when you have different layers and you can play with their level of dimming and create scenes. So I started to sketch this out one day, and I thought, "My buddy Rob just landed over at Lucetta, so let me give him a call, and if nothing else, have him coach me as to what to do." And you had known enough from your career, or had picked up enough, and you said, "Well, really what you need to do is determine..." You'll have to correct me with the terms, but the type of molding that the linear would sit in. There are different angles and different lenses.
Rob:
That's right. We may call it extrusions or channels in our business.
Ron:
Okay. So you were educating me on extrusions and lenses. And then you were educating me on how the tapes come with different numbers of dots per foot. Diodes per foot, right? So that could impact the way that it reflects. And then, going back to my lighting education here, whether it was warm dim or not. When you dim it, does it stay within its white range, or when you dim it, does it start to turn orange, or more incandescent-like, like we humans are used to our incandescent light bulbs acting?
Rob:
That's right. Warm dim.
Ron:
What else am I missing? I think that's what you were sharing with me. And then you sent me a box of doodads. I've got a couple of them I was able to pick up. This is a flat, one-foot piece.
Rob:
Mm-hmm.
Ron:
You'll explain this to us later, but this says Diode LED on the back, and it's a piece of railing here. And you sent me a bunch of example tapes that were in two-foot sections it looks like. This tape is Valent, this example I have here in my hand. And then you sent me a transformer. And you said, "Ron, the only way to know exactly what's going to make you and your wife happy is for you to put the cove up and hold up samples and try everything, and then see what makes your room look the way that you guys want it to look."
Rob:
That's right.
Ron:
And so, Rob, I did that. I literally mocked it all up. I mocked up a little two-foot section of the molding that I was putting up. I was on my ladder, my son was my assistant, my wife was in there, the lights were off, and we just started playing with it. There was an aha moment, because it was like Goldilocks. One was the right answer. It was very specific. One particular piece of tape, and I think we went with the 45 degree at a particular position, and it gave exactly the effect my wife was hoping for.
Rob:
Right.
Ron:
And then you helped me actually construct the order. And there's more to it, like where did I put the dimmer? I was putting it on my Lutron Caseta system, so I had to pull some wires. So there was the wiring, and then you were teaching me how many feet of tape could be on the transformer before I exceeded its capacity. We went through all that, and I did it, and it's been working beautifully ever since.
Rob:
You checked the boxes. We'll talk about that a little bit later, Ron, but you did it right, and it's a beautiful install. Is your wife happy?
Ron:
You know what? As recently as a week ago, and she did not know you were going to be on the podcast, she was like, "I love my bedroom." I was like, "All right, mission accomplished."
Rob:
Mission accomplished. We did it. But you are our dealer, right? This is how we work to execute on checking those boxes and making sure that you show your client what they're going to get. Because ultimately, you knew the expectations, you set the proper expectations, your wife liked it, and we worked to deliver that. And your wife's happy. That's really the ultimate goal for us as a manufacturer, is your client smiling and happy and loves it. If they do, we did our job.
Ron:
I'm curious about the process you guided me through with the samples of different types of tapes, and the idea of different angled moldings and lenses. Do you recommend, or is it common, that your reseller, your integrator, is taking a customer or a designer through that same process of experimentation? Is that common, or is that more of a "Ron really needed help, so let's hold his hand"? Is this a common practice you're finding when dealers are embracing linear?
Rob:
It is becoming more of a common practice, because our dealers are learning and doing projects, and they're learning how to improve their processes, and showing the clients through samples is becoming more and more part of their process. We offer free project samples to our dealers. So it's not just you, Ron. We offer those free samples to...
Ron:
I thought I felt special. I thought it was just for me, Rob.
Rob:
Well, we wanted to make sure you were taken care of, of course, Ron. But what you learned is the proper process of walking through the steps and making sure each one is right. The selection based on the application, and really what you and your wife were trying to achieve with the lighting in the home, and then figuring out what wire gauge to run, and what the length is from the tape light to the driver. Where you were going to install that driver was important. And then you did the installation, and you installed your Lutron Caseta dimmer right next to the driver, hid it, so that now it's part of your scene control on your keypad.
Ron:
That's right.
Rob:
It was well executed. It was well done.
Ron:
I had a good coach.
Rob:
Hey, we try, right? That's what it's all about.
Ron:
It was a very positive experience. Now, I tell you, last week she was telling me how much she loves her bedroom, but it was followed with, "And I think we now need linear lighting under this piece of furniture and this piece of furniture." So there's going to be a phase two. I'm warning you.
Rob:
Well, we love that, right? And the same goes for our dealers as well. What we feel is part of a successful journey for a dealer is that the project growth, or the revenue per project, continues to increase from linear with our integrators. What does that mean? It's because they've become confident. They installed that cove, and now they get it, they figured it out, and they understand the process. Okay, now I can do the under cabinet, and below cabinet, and toe kick. What about the steps? Outdoor lighting. So that's what we're seeing. That's the evolution of this industry, is the integrators become more confident because they're getting the training they need to be successful.
Ron:
I could see how, in lighting in general, I've seen that category exploding in our channel, but specifically how linear, when you guys are modeling it, has to look like an exponential curve, at least in terms of potential. A home going from maybe tens of feet with an initial application to hundreds of feet, and for a lot of the homes our dealers work on it could be thousands of feet of linear.
Rob:
It could be. It all depends. Each part of the country is different. The East, South Florida, the Californias, the Texas, the areas where we're seeing more modern contemporary type homes being installed, and linear is a big part of that. So it does depend on the part of the country as well.
Ron:
All right, Rob, let's go back into your background. Tell us a little bit, or a lot, about where you come from. I know a little bit of the story, but I don't know the whole story.
Rob:
I'm proud to say this is my 30th year in the custom integration channel. Time flies when you're having fun. As I mentioned earlier, you learn something new every day in this industry, and our integrators do so much in terms of technology in the home. That's why it evolves. I really appreciate and have a lot of empathy for what our integrator partners do. Being an integrator myself, that's when I started in the industry, in 1996 in South Florida with ETC, and spent 10 years there.
Ron:
Good old Bill Marinett
Rob:
That's right. A legend in the industry certainly, and Bill was successful with his company, and it was sold years ago. But I learned a lot from being a part of that organization, and helped grow that organization from 12 people to 64 people when I decided to depart and become a manufacturer. I take what I learned and the empathy that I have for the integrator and bring it into how I approach our partners, our integrators, our customers, our dealers, however you want to say it, every day. So 1996 to 2006, and then I wanted to be closer to family, my wife's family and my family. I'm from the Southeast. I grew up in Georgia, and my wife's in Virginia. At the time, we had the largest LiteTouch dealer in the country, if you remember LiteTouch Lighting Controls.
Ron:
Yep.
Rob:
Fantastic system back then, but then they sold to Nortek and then Savant, and hence the company diminished. But I became the regional sales manager at LiteTouch covering the East Coast, and I stayed in manufacturing. So I moved to Greenville, South Carolina. I've been here for 20 years now, and have really enjoyed it. My career has gone from LiteTouch to Crestron. At the time I joined Crestron, I was hired to help electricians and AV integrators with lighting controls specifically, and then eventually that tapered off and I became a commercial integrator. Sorry, I worked with Crestron as the commercial RSM. I spent some time there, and then eventually went over to Legrand and spent 10 years with Legrand, specifically focused on Vantage lighting controls. Great product, great solution. I enjoyed working for Legrand. But my time there had ended, and it was a great opportunity for me to look at the landscape of manufacturers in this industry. Who's investing? Who is 100% committed to being successful and making our dealers successful in this industry? That's when I found Elemental Brands, formerly Elemental LED. It's a privately held company in Reno, Nevada, and their custom integration division is three and a half years into selling solutions to our dealers. They committed to really developing the business, and that's when Lucetta CI became real as a brand and a product line exclusive to integrators at the beginning of the year. I'm excited about being a part of this industry, a part of lighting and lighting controls. I have such passion for it today, and I'm really excited to see the growth.
Ron:
You have this career, particularly on the manufacturing side, where you've worked with some of the biggest brands in our country and in the industry, over a couple of decades. I'm curious what your observation is. What's changed in the world of integrators? Are they the same today as they were 20 years ago, or are there any observations you have that are different?
Rob:
That's interesting. Foundationally, it's the same. We cater to a high net worth client. Number one, that's the same. That hasn't changed. There's still a high level of excellence that goes into these homes, whether it's the technologies that we install or the furnishings, anything these clients put in their homes. All that is foundationally the same. What's changed is the technology that helps us run our businesses. That's changed a lot, as you know, from the evolution of AI and how we're utilizing AI to improve our businesses, and technology overall, and the drive for simplicity today. Twenty years ago we were installing multiple touch panel control systems throughout the home. There weren't many good, solid, app-control-based systems. The network was a paradigm shift years ago, so we didn't have all those foundational technologies to work from that we do today. So it's more on the basis of simplicity of what I see going into the homes. You don't have these huge racks anymore, because you really don't need all that technology. You don't need multiple decoders and endpoints and switchers that were installed in these homes years ago. We just don't need it anymore. That's the evolution of the change in the marketplace. But overall, we're still catering to that high-end client, and the client's willing to invest in us if we deliver that value to them. That's still the same.
Ron:
So you have the benefit, Rob, of traveling the country and joining a great brand, a brand that clearly is leaning into the space, leaning into growth and leaning into great integrators. They've joined buying groups, they have a great presence at trade shows and events. I'm guessing that you have picked up on characteristics of integrators that are winning in this category of lighting, and at the same time you're seeing integrators that maybe are talking a big game but aren't quite catching on.
Rob:
Oh, yeah.
Ron:
So take us through it. What are those characteristics of integrators that are winning? Everybody listening and watching should be pulling out their notepads to start taking notes, because Rob has some really interesting observations here.
Rob:
It is true. As we travel throughout the country, as I mentioned earlier, one is just having that thirst for learning. That's part of our culture within Elemental Brands and Lucetta CI. We want to take the meetings we have with the integrators and come back and, as I mentioned, help build our company from the ground up, built on delivering the solutions that the integrator wants. I'll start with the basic characteristic. It's very common sense, but it starts small to go big. What I mean by that is simple. Don't go out and do a big backlit stone application for your first project. We'd love to have it, we'd love to work with you, and if you're successful, we're successful. It's a partnership. But really start small. Do a cove in the master bedroom. Do the under-cabinet lighting in the kitchen. Pre-wire for some toe kick. Maybe pre-wire for some upper cabinet lighting. Start with the smaller projects. Start with your own home to begin to learn the proper process and proper execution. When I see a brand-new integrator just getting into lighting and taking on a huge project, what does that mean for us? We're accountable for the quality level of the product that we deliver and sell through our integrators. It means we're going to need to spend a lot of time with that integrator to make sure they deliver on the expectations of what the client wants. So it's better for everyone in the process and for their business profitability. That's what you want, to start small and finish big. Very simple. So I would say that's the first characteristic of an integrator. The second one, and...
Ron:
Can I ask you a quick question? For a lot of integrators, is that start-small characteristic maybe doing something in their own home or doing something in their showroom? Is that what you see as most common?
Rob:
That's smart. We'll call that smart. Absolutely.
Ron:
Very common. But maybe before you go and do that on a job and totally trial by fire, maybe light up some area of your space first.
Rob:
Think about those successful integrators doing AV and technologies. They build the racks prior to installing them in the home. They burn in the technology prior to installing it in the home. They make sure everything's working properly. Why not do the same with lighting? You could do that with your lighting bench at your office space or in your warehouse, to lay out the lighting, plug it in, and test it before you even lay it in the channel. Those are just small, simple tips that end up making sure that you're making money at the end of the project. So absolutely. And that's the second thing, Ron. Most integrators are installing lighting in their showrooms. It doesn't have to be the whole showroom. I've walked into dealers' offices and they've got a little kitchen vignette, and half of the kitchen vignette is just under-cabinet lighting, and then the other half is in-cabinet lighting, and above-cabinet lighting, and toe kick, and under-cabinet lighting. So they're showing the client, if you add this light, now add this, now add this. Okay, let's take it away. Just simple. That's a simple concept. It's not the whole showroom, but they're showing clients what great lighting looks like and what, quite frankly, standard lighting looks like today. So that, for sure, is the second characteristic.
Ron:
In the scenario you just painted, I can't imagine the customer seeing the cabinet that is lit, under-cabinet lighting, over-cabinet lighting, in-cabinet lighting, and just how stunning we all know it's going to look from that description, and then going, "Or we can not do that," and showing them the other side where it's not installed or it's turned off. What customer's going to go, "Yeah, give me the ugly cabinets"? No one's going to say that.
Rob:
They're not, but you're showing them. And so samples, like you used for your home, that's why we offer free project samples for our dealers, because we want you to show and set the proper expectations. I've been in homes in front of a client with a dealer, and the client says, "That's not what I thought I was getting." "That's not bright enough," or "That doesn't match my recessed lighting. Can we change it?" So now we have to step out of the house, right, with our dealer, and talk about how we can help this homeowner.
Ron:
That's right. Going back to your scenario with me, sorry to interrupt, but I remember when you sent me these samples, that's one of the details I forgot, is one of the characteristics of change was how many foot candles of output from the different tapes. Because you had said you're so close to the ceiling, you may not need so much of the power. Is it in watts? How is the light output measured?
Rob:
You have the wattage, which is the power from the linear, but it's lumens. It's lumens per foot. It's how bright that linear is per foot.
Ron:
That was a big deal with my little personal application, because I was so close to the ceiling, and I knew I was going to mostly have it dimmed, and I ended up going with the lowest light output version of the 2700 tape, and that was the Goldilocks zone for us.
Rob:
That's right, and ultimately you're trying to accent that ceiling a little bit.
Ron:
But if a dealer doesn't do that and they guess, that sounds like that could be bad.
Rob:
It's an ingredient for disaster. Not disaster, but there goes your profit.
Ron:
There goes your profit.
Rob:
We try to help the dealers, but now you're going to have to replace the linear light engine in the channel. Did you inspect the right channel? That is, again, a characteristic of the integrators that are more successful in the market, and that's profit, and that's happy clients in the end. And I would say moving on, number three would be that at minimum, they have a lighting champion or a lighting leader within their company, somebody that they invest in to send out to our training in Reno. They take the training, they come back, and then they teach the rest of the associates what they learn, the best practices, the tips and tricks, the applications, and when to use what particular linear with what particular application. So I would say that's number three.
Ron:
Is that champion the owner, or are you advising that the owner or operator of the business delegates or selects somebody in the business to be the lighting champion?
Rob:
Delegation. It doesn't matter what size company, it's really about identifying a person you can bring up within your organization. It's a great way to bring somebody up and give them more responsibility within the organization, and say, "You're going to be our lighting person, and I want you to do that." Now, if it's the owner of the company, that's where they want to start, so be it. You're going to grow organically as you grow your lighting. But it's recommended to have an individual or someone you can delegate that to.
Ron:
The businesses you see accelerating the fastest have a lighting champion.
Rob:
Yes. No doubt. There are so many reasons why we could get into that, and I will on some of the other characteristics for sure. But I would say number four is they attend Lightapalooza. They attend the trade shows every year. Just think about it. What do they say, repetition is the mother of mastery, right? But it's true. Think of the best business books you read. You read it, and you go back and read it again, and then again, and you pick up something new every time. It's the same approach. Attend the trade shows. Attend Lightapalooza. Go talk to the manufacturers. Take the classes. Take the same class again. I guarantee you will walk away with something new that you didn't know before. And that's a characteristic of these leading integrators. It's a perspective. When I'm traveling, I'll hear, "I'm not going to Lightapalooza this year. They have the same classes," or "There are a lot of the same classes, a lot of the same teachers." Change the perspective and you can change the growth of your company, and this relates to life, for sure. So that's number four. Number five, they leverage buying groups. There are a lot of integrators today in buying groups, and they have small groups. It's a great way to leverage your small group organizations within your buying groups to learn from each other, to learn not only your failures but your successes as well. There are still a lot of integrators out there who are part of buying groups who do not take advantage of that, and it's there for them. We invest heavily in those buying groups as a vendor or preferred vendor within these groups, because we want those groups to be successful, and each one of those individual dealers to be successful. Number six is developing relationships with the electrical contractors. Those integrators who have been successful with lighting controls today, most of them probably have pretty good relationships with their local electricians, whether they're a partner in this or they sell their lighting control through the electricians. That's why those integrators are more successful, because now they're adding lighting and they're providing lighting controls to the electrical contractor, but they're not just a distributor. If you want to be a lighting distributor, that's just not a long-term successful strategy. Not for our business. We're integrators. We design, we install, we program, we deliver a complete technology package. So if you're providing lighting for that, you can be that value-added distributor for the electrical contractors. And with that as the partnership, I'm seeing some integrators bring an electrician within their organization. Some are buying electrical firms and doing it themselves as part of low voltage and line voltage. But they're partnering with electricians, because now these electricians are becoming your best salespeople in the marketplace.
Ron:
Can you expound on that a little further? I know that I've had conversations with some business owners, and some of these business owners perceive that if they sell lighting gear, lighting fixtures, they're going to be in direct competition with the local electrical contractor, and that could be harmful to their business relationships with builders or with other people in the market. Maybe that's true in some cases, but how do you overcome that?
Rob:
You're right. I think it's all perspective, and the opportunity is that you look at it this way. Flip the perspective. Any integrator who says, "Hey, I'm competing with the local electricians," have you gone and sat down with them? Have you grabbed a beer with them? Grabbed breakfast with them? Talked to them about their business and what's important for them? You may find that it's not important for them to source the fixtures. They just want to make their money on the labor and get out of the project. Well, that's great. Now, how about we source those fixtures for you, and now we're providing the lighting controls, we're providing the fixtures, and we're working together. I think it's controversial, but it's shortsighted. It really is. Take a different angle. Look at the builders, and I would say that's another characteristic, is that most of our integrators get their business from builders, from custom and luxury home builders. So are you going to the builder who you've had a long-standing relationship with and saying, "Hey, this is what I want to do," or why don't you find out who their top three electricians are? Go talk to them first, and then go to the builder and say, "Hey, this is what we're doing today, and here's how we're adding value in these luxury homes with the technologies. We've been doing lighting control for 20 years with you. We know lighting, we've seen great lighting, and we can provide great lighting. How about we team up with your electricians and we deliver a beautiful package of lighting and lighting controls now?" Because you're doing everything else beautifully in the home, but the level of lighting is not commensurate with the furnishings and everything else you've done in the home. So I think it's just changing your approach or looking at it a different way, because the reality today is electrical contractors are calling and wanting to become integrators.
Ron:
Mm-hmm.
Rob:
They're saying, "Well, okay, so I'm going to add networking, and I'm going to add lighting control, and I'm going to add audio and video, and I'm going to become an integrator now, because an integrator's taking my business." So it's more communication than anything, I think.
Ron:
Good rebuttal.
Rob:
Yep. And again, a characteristic, let's say number seven, is working with your builder contractors and presenting them the value of you providing that lighting. That's definitely another characteristic that I see in the marketplace. The other, or what we'd say number eight, is lighting designers. It's interesting, over the last three or four years as we've seen integrators get more and more into lighting, some of the most successful ones that we visit today are bringing in a lighting designer on every project and allowing that lighting designer to drive the specification and do what they do best. Our integrators are learning, as we do this, that the lighting designers who are involved in our industry and teaching the classes at Lightapalooza have been doing this for 10, 15, 20, 25 years. That's all they do. They've had to evolve their businesses, of course, with the changes in technologies, but this is a luxury home, and if you can bring in a lighting designer and partner with that lighting designer, because most often what we're seeing is that because of the level of quality of lighting, like Lucetta CI, that's going in, that lighting designer is more apt to spec Lucetta CI because they're confident. That lighting designer is confident that a Lucetta CI solution will deliver on the expectations of the client. So they're bringing more lighting designers into the projects. Again, there's nothing wrong with that lighting champion we talked about earlier, ramping them up with their aptitude in lighting to at least provide consulting work in delivering those solutions. That's still important, because this is all compounding.
Ron:
What's sticking out to me is that there are layers or levels to the game. Getting a champion capable of designing and specifying, you're clearly going to sell more if that person is in place. And then in certain cases, with certain clients, if you bring in the lighting designer who doesn't sell any product, so they get the benefit of being the expert, and they are specifying to that customer's needs, wants, and desires, it seems like a no-brainer that you're naturally going to end up selling a lot more gear. It's not like that designer's fee is coming out of your pocket, Mr. or Mrs. Integrator. The client's going to pay it happily to have professional expertise. The net net is a lot more gear gets spec'd, and I'm not being totally about capitalism here, the home's going to be beautiful because it's going to be properly lit, and it's going to be lit at the highest level. But you're going to sell more lighting fixtures, more linear, and more control. There's just going to be more of everything in the project. Why would you not want to do that?
Rob:
Exactly. It truly is a no-brainer, and what's the worst thing that can happen, Ron? The client says, "No, thank you, but thank you for offering and thank you for suggesting." Because they can never come back to you when the home is built and they go over to the Jones residence, right? And the Jones residence is just lit beautifully. And they come back to their home and they say, "Well, wait a minute. How come you didn't present this to us when we were building our home?" They'll never be able to do that.
Ron:
It's definitely win, win, win. If you forge these relationships with the lighting designers in your market, and you tell them, "I want nothing in return," I mean, that's up for your negotiation. But let's say your version could be nothing in return, but I want to be able to bring you in, and I want you to at least know my line card of fixtures that I do represent, and help design within those line cards where appropriate and where possible. I'll bring you in on all of my high-profile projects. You're going to win, and then they may bring you in and reciprocate on some of their projects.
Rob:
Exactly.
Ron:
What a beautiful growth strategy. It's a mature strategy. You've got to be playing the long game, right?
Rob:
Oh, it is. All of this is long term. You've got to be playing the long game, not the short game. Those who are not successful, who are making mistakes on projects, are in that short-term thinking, "Oh, I'm adding lighting because I can make more money on the project." It's a business, but we all know that's not sustainable.
Ron:
Right. Very short-term thinking. All right, what's next?
Rob:
All right, last one I would say is the example you went through installing your linear lighting in your master bedroom. Based on that application, you followed the steps in the process, right? You selected the linear light engine that's the best fit for that application, because you wanted to provide a nice accent in the cove of your home. Then you talked about the channel, the extrusion, and you selected the proper extrusion. You didn't select a small slim extrusion. You selected a 45-degree angled extrusion, or channel, because that lit up the ceiling and washed the ceiling the way you and your wife wanted in your home. So that was the second thing, select the channel. The next is the accessories. You have to determine whether you want... are you going to do the soldering? Are you going to have Lucetta CI do the soldering? Or are you going to select our patented connectors to connect the lead wires? That's number three, the accessories.
Ron:
I'm going to show that on screen, and correct me if I'm showing the wrong thing, but whereas this tape is pre-terminated, now this is a sample, but you can also order the actual product pre-terminated, or you can have it soldered open ends and you solder it and connect the tape yourself.
Rob:
That's right. And we can do a complete fixture as well, where it comes in the bag labeled, ready to be installed. But most often what you see there, what you're showing everyone, is what we do in the CI channel, where we provide the soldering and we provide custom cuts of the tape light, and then you lay it in the channel. That's what most of our integrator partners do today.
Ron:
I can see both. Businesses want to remove variables, right? If it could come from the factory and it's warrantied that way and I know my cost and I mark it up, why do I want to take on extra pain if I don't need to? Not that soldering is hard, but it's nice that there are options.
Rob:
Exactly. So that's number three, the accessories. Number four is the power supplies. We had to spec the correct wire, and gauge of wire. The number of conductors and the gauge of wire based on how far your linear was from where you were going to install the driver. There's a voltage drop in there that we have to calculate. So we did that. Then the drivers. You installed one driver, because you wanted the cove all to be controlled and dimmed at the same time. And then you installed one dimmer that's controlled by your Lutron Caseta system. So it is the light engine, the channel, the accessories, the power, and then the control. You checked all those boxes. And again, the leading integrators in the business are checking those boxes for every application. And what I mean is, an application isn't a kitchen. An application is under-cabinet lighting. Toe-kick lighting is a second application. So you're checking the boxes for every application, and those leading integrators are doing that with the project manager that they have.
Ron:
I could see a form. You guys probably provide this, but if not, I could see a kitchen having a piece of paper where every application in the kitchen is a row, and I'm deciding all of these five elements, and that creates the specification for the north wall under-cabinet lighting package. And then the next line is the north wall cabinet toe-kick lighting, and so on. From the outside looking in, it could look very complex, but if you break it down into its incremental parts, it's not that complex. It's just that you've got to do it every single time.
Rob:
That's the key, doing it every single time, being consistent about your approach to these projects. That is a winning strategy, not cutting corners. We all know that when we cut corners, we're taking a risk. We're betting that the decision is still going to be okay. It's those things done consistently over time that are yielding successful businesses in lighting today.
Ron:
Talk about, from your perspective, businesses that are successful in lighting. Certainly they have a growing revenue line item called lighting or lighting fixtures that is growing in their business. But there's also, what I believe to be true, and maybe you could expound on it from your point of view, the benefit of being in the lighting fixture business and the timing of access to a project, and how that's maybe different in terms of your conversations with your builder and architect than if you're the integrator, the guy or gal installing speakers.
Rob:
We know today that lighting allows you to get in very early. Throughout my travels around the country, our dealers will tell us, "We're not getting in early enough to spec the lighting." What I hear, again, is, "Okay, how can I help you with that? Is that a challenge for you? Is that an obstacle to your growth in your company, that you can't get in early enough? Well, okay, let's change it. Given the fact that we can't get in early enough, what are our obstacles? Why aren't we getting in early enough? And what can we do to overcome that?" Most of the time, the fact of the matter is they are not investing the time, so their obstacle is that it's already spec'd. The job's already spec'd with lighting, or the electrician's already providing the lighting in that project. I hear that quite a bit. So if it's already spec'd, then given that, what can you do as an integrator to approach the architect? Who spec'd the lighting on that project? Is it the lighting designer, or is it an electrician, or is it just the architect? Who is the specifier on that? Why don't you go talk to them? Start from where the spec gets started and go knock on their door and just have a conversation. Or it's just go talk to the builder.
Ron:
Rob, how often is the spec, and I'm going to say in a luxury home, so you can define that by dollars or maybe by size depending on your market, simply the minimum MEP spec for it to pass inspection versus true, thoughtful design?
Rob:
Eighty percent of the time.
Ron:
Eighty percent it's the minimum.
Rob:
No doubt. There is rarely a true lighting design on a custom or luxury home project today. It's minimal. It could be more than 80%, but quite frankly, it's just standard lighting.
Ron:
What needs to change for that to change? It feels like that stat sadly has been true for all of my time. I've been in the industry not quite as long as you, 26 years, and it feels like that stat's maybe been the same for 26 years. What needs to change for that to change in some measurable way?
Rob:
It is changing, and that's a good thing. Maybe two or three or four years ago it was 5%. Now maybe it's 10 or 15%. That percentage is increasing because of those characteristics that I went through earlier, about integrators getting more involved and working with lighting designers, building relationships with them and bringing them in. Those are the most successful, and the revenue is showing that. So that's improving. But it is literally just a matter of education. Are the integrators going out and conducting AIA seminars on lighting, the evolution of lighting, and the importance of lighting in these luxury homes? I'm seeing more of that, and we're participating and partnering with the dealers on that approach. Now, are they getting in early enough to educate an end user? You've got to get the homeowner, they're the ones that drive the budget in the end. So are you educating your teams, your builders, the architects that you often see on these projects? And certainly we can't discount the interior designers. It is a process of education, and we are evolving, and the percentage of projects that have a lighting designer is increasing today. So that's improving. Ultimately, our integrators are just changing their perspective on "I can't get in early enough." A lot of times that's more of an excuse than looking at it as what's the opportunity here?
Ron:
It's a convenient excuse.
Rob:
Yeah. Again, we're only as successful as our dealers. So we want to help in any way, shape, or form, and we're continuing to evolve our curriculum on how we train our dealers and what we train. We go out and that's the learning experience that we take back, of what are your obstacles to growth, and then how, as a manufacturer vendor partner for you, we're coaching and teaching on how best to overcome those obstacles.
Ron:
Love it. Rob, folks that want to get involved with Lucetta CI, what are the next steps? How can people get in touch with you? I know Rebecca on my team has loaded in a bunch of contact info here, but I'll let you drive. How can people get in touch with you that want to learn more?
Rob:
First of all, we're excited. We introduced Lucetta CI as a brand and a product line earlier this year at Lightapalooza, exclusively providing that brand to our integrators and investing in R&D, so we're just excited. If you want to take a look at our products and solutions, go to lucettaci.com. That's L-U-C-E-T-T-A-C-I dot com. CI stands for custom integrator. If you want to get in touch with me, it's rob.doherty, D-O-H-E-R-T-Y, at lucettaci.com. I cover different parts of the country for Lucetta CI as part of one of my roles, and I'm happy to make sure that you are aligned with the right salesperson, the rep agency who covers that area, when you give us a call. So feel free to reach out. Happy to help.
Ron:
Love it. And I have a couple more handles. Instagram, it looks like you guys are Lucetta CI on Instagram.
Rob:
We are @lucettaci on Instagram, and then we have a YouTube page as well.
Ron:
What type of content can people expect to see on YouTube?
Rob:
YouTube is a training avenue for our dealers. Three-minute, four-minute, five-minute quick tidbits on technologies of linear as well as products and solutions. We even have a full hour, or a little longer than an hour, integrator training on Lucetta CI and our products and solutions. We're going to continue to evolve that YouTube page with training videos, so it's a great way to begin to learn the products and solutions and the technologies behind linear lighting today.
Ron:
Awesome. Rob, thanks for joining me on Automation Unplugged. It's been a lot of fun.
Rob:
You're welcome, Ron. I enjoyed it. A lot of fun, thanks.
Ron Callis is the CEO of One Firefly, LLC, a digital marketing agency based out of South Florida and creator of Automation Unplugged. Founded in 2007, One Firefly has quickly became the leading marketing firm specializing in the integrated technology and security space. The One Firefly team work hard to create innovative solutions to help Integrators boost their online presence, such as the elite website solution, Mercury Pro.
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Links:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/lucettaci
https://www.instagram.com/lucettaci/